Any benefits of manual hubs ? (3 Viewers)

[ToyotaIsLife]

Hey guys,

The kit I am looking at: marks4wd part time kit.

Link to kit: LandCruiser 100 series part-time 4WD conversion kit

In Qatar all 100 series cruisers from: 1998-2002 (Part-time transfer case with H2, H4, N, L4 Lever), 2003-2005 (Part-time transfer case with H, L4 lever, and a button on the dash to engage 4WD), 2006-2007 (AWD transfer case, button on the dash to lock the center diff for 50/50 4WD, no 2WD)

My 2006 LC100 came with an AWD transfer case, however, I replaced it with a 2005 transfer case and now I have 2WD and I push the center diff button to engage 4WD.

My question is if I am on 2WD is any power still being sent to the front drivetrain and would it be any different with manual hubs?

I read an article that claims that without manual hubs even when on 2WD energy is still being wasted and sent to the front drive train without engaging the wheels, however with manual hubs when you set them at 4x2 they completely disengage the front drivetrain sending 100% to the rear. I don't understand it completely, it seems like the opposite to true, since with manual hubs you are locking the axles in place meaning drive is still being sent upfront however without it reaching the front wheels is it the same with auto hubs?

Is there any other benefit of having manual hubs? or should I stick with auto hubs since I already have part-time 4WD.

Please enlighten me, thank you.

 

[BuckarooBanzai]

I’m no expert but this guy has a good bit of experience on the subject.

 

[I Lean]

Since you're already part-time 4WD, the arguments made in that video don't really count.

Right now, when you're in 2WD all your front-end components are still spinning, just not being powered. They're being turned by the front tires. You push your button to engage 4WD essentially any time, so you have "shift on the fly" capability because all the drivetrain components are turning the same speed.

If you add manual locking hubs, with them unlocked you should no longer be turning your front driveshaft, differential, and CV shafts. If you lock those hubs, you'll function exactly as you do right now.

I think the two biggest benefits from putting hubs on are:
1) less wear and tear on those parts during normal road driving
2) the ability to fully disconnect those parts in case of breakage, and still drive home in 2WD as normal

That Mark's kit has more than you need, since you already have a 2WD transfer case. It also comes with AVM hubs, which I think are OK but inferior to Aisin.

 

[atnolan94]

Since you're already part-time 4WD, the arguments made in that video don't really count.

Right now, when you're in 2WD all your front-end components are still spinning, just not being powered. They're being turned by the front tires. You push your button to engage 4WD essentially any time, so you have "shift on the fly" capability because all the drivetrain components are turning the same speed.

If you add manual locking hubs, with them unlocked you should no longer be turning your front driveshaft, differential, and CV shafts. If you lock those hubs, you'll function exactly as you do right now.

I think the two biggest benefits from putting hubs on are:
1) less wear and tear on those parts during normal road driving
2) the ability to fully disconnect those parts in case of breakage, and still drive home in 2WD as normal

That Mark's kit has more than you need, since you already have a 2WD transfer case. It also comes with AVM hubs, which I think are OK but inferior to Aisin.

i would agree, aisin hubs are superior. @cruiseroutfit sells them, but not sure if he ships to the Middle East.

I run his full part-time kit with aisin hubs. There are not any part time 100s in the US so I had to open my transfer case and install a spool. Totally worth it I prefer the part time setup in my application.

 

[ToyotaIsLife]

i would agree, aisin hubs are superior. @cruiseroutfit sells them, but not sure if he ships to the Middle East.

I run his full part-time kit with aisin hubs. There are not any part time 100s in the US so I had to open my transfer case and install a spool. Totally worth it I prefer the part time setup in my application.

View attachment 2489465

Yeah I noticed that you guys get the AWD transfer case only 1998-2007

 

[ToyotaIsLife]

Since you're already part-time 4WD, the arguments made in that video don't really count.

Right now, when you're in 2WD all your front-end components are still spinning, just not being powered. They're being turned by the front tires. You push your button to engage 4WD essentially any time, so you have "shift on the fly" capability because all the drivetrain components are turning the same speed.

If you add manual locking hubs, with them unlocked you should no longer be turning your front driveshaft, differential, and CV shafts. If you lock those hubs, you'll function exactly as you do right now.

I think the two biggest benefits from putting hubs on are:
1) less wear and tear on those parts during normal road driving
2) the ability to fully disconnect those parts in case of breakage, and still drive home in 2WD as normal

That Mark's kit has more than you need, since you already have a 2WD transfer case. It also comes with AVM hubs, which I think are OK but inferior to Aisin.

Good points

When you say that without the manual hubs the front end parts are still spinning without four wheel drive being engaged do you mean they spin freely or do they still receive some power from the transfer case ?

 

[MountaineerLC]

Yeah I noticed that you guys get the AWD transfer case only 1998-2007

Yep, all US spec 100's were AWD. I believe the same is true for the 80's as well.

 

[ToyotaIsLife]

Yep, all US spec 100's were AWD. I believe the same is true for the 80's as well.

What ?! Even the 80 series ? All the 80 series here come with the H2, H4, N, L4 transfer case. Thats odd didn't know Toyota built AWD transfer cases back then.

 

[I Lean]

Good points

When you say that without the manual hubs the front end parts are still spinning without four wheel drive being engaged do you mean they spin freely or do they still receive some power from the transfer case ?

I mean they spin freely. Driven by the tires, not powered by the transfer case.

 

[nissanh]

I think you have ADD Automatic Differential Disconnect. One cv spins the inner spider wheels and the other cv gets disconnected at the vaccum coupler.

 

[abuck99]

I’m no expert but this guy has a good bit of experience on the subject.

Compelling argument in his video. ASW certainly has decades of hands on experience with numerous 4x4 platforms in the harshest user environments on the planet. Despite his argument- I still like the idea of selectable manual part time. There are at least a dozen on this forum who've done it between Marks kit and Curuiser Outfitters kit, and haven't heard any negatives so far. It would be interesting to hear from the retailers/makers of these kits to know their rebuttal to ASW's argument of it being a pointless mod.

 

[Asanka]

I agree with ASW, he is a practical guy. Though he is bit exaggerating the mileage claim, there is lot more into the conclusion. It doesn't make sense the expense of the conversion compared to 0.5 or 1mpg gain (US spec gasoline V8s). Also majority use these trucks for overland where thousands of miles in highways and hundreds of miles on dirt/off roads. Yes safety is major factor to consider than the rest of the positives. If you live very close to the offroad trails or tow your 100 to trails, its a different story, may be you would consider a different vehicle . Anyways, ASW's conclusion can be proved if you drive from southern state to north and count number of subarus you see along the way.

I've driven part time 4x4s, not LCs but older a hilux, nissan pickup, a mitsubishi pajero, a mitsubishi jeep. All late 80s and 90s years except the mitsubishi jeep which is a 1978. Those days, I'm pretty sure AWD is calling for trouble than anything compared to part time 4wd. AWD system in the LC is doing much more on not ideal road conditions compared to part-time 4wd.

For OP's question, my suggestion is to leave the auto hubs as it is. Loss of energy and wear and tear is minimal to the extend you can ignore

 

[BuckarooBanzai]

I think I was quick to respond with the video from ASW without fully considering the OP's question. I definitely see the benefit of manual hubs in a part-time 4WD rig.

That said, I always re-watch this story from Andrew when I find myself on one of these vendor websites drooling over a manual hub conversion for my 100 series. ASW knows how to "talk me down from the ledge" Haha.

 

[uHu]

Compelling argument in his video. ASW certainly has decades of hands on experience with numerous 4x4 platforms in the harshest user environments on the planet. Despite his argument- I still like the idea of selectable manual part time. There are at least a dozen on this forum who've done it between Marks kit and Curuiser Outfitters kit, and haven't heard any negatives so far. It would be interesting to hear from the retailers/makers of these kits to know their rebuttal to ASW's argument of it being a pointless mod.

Of course it's not a useless mod - it gives the seller money in the cash drawer. But that's the only benefit.

 

[thebeedeegee]

Of course it's not a useless mod - it gives the seller money in the cash drawer. But that's the only benefit.

Compelling argument in his video. ASW certainly has decades of hands on experience with numerous 4x4 platforms in the harshest user environments on the planet. Despite his argument- I still like the idea of selectable manual part time. There are at least a dozen on this forum who've done it between Marks kit and Curuiser Outfitters kit, and haven't heard any negatives so far. It would be interesting to hear from the retailers/makers of these kits to know their rebuttal to ASW's argument of it being a pointless mod.

You can also put a part time kit and front auto locker in the 100 series for about $700 vs around $1500 (if you do it yourself) for Harrop E locker . Granted, the E locker is better , but some of us are poor. So it's not totally useless if you use the hub conversion to get a locker up front.

I agree with the other arguments though about it handling better on dirt roads at speed with AWD, and the MPG gain can't be worth it alone.

 

[abuck99]

You can also put a part time kit and front auto locker in the 100 series for about $700 vs around $1500 (if you do it yourself) for Harrop E locker . Granted, the E locker is better , but some of us are poor. So it's not totally useless if you use the hub conversion to get a locker up front.

I agree with the other arguments though about it handling better on dirt roads at speed with AWD, and the MPG gain can't be worth it alone.

?? "Hub conversion to get a locker" I'm confused by that statement. PT kit has nothing to do with a locking differential.

And what kind of locker and PT kit can you get for $700? The Cruiser Outfitters PT kit is about $900 by itself, a locker ARB, TJM, Eaton/Harrop is about 1,100 +/- then you have to buy an install kit for a locker: just parts is prob over $2500

 

[thebeedeegee]

?? "Hub conversion to get a locker" I'm confused by that statement. PT kit has nothing to do with a locking differential.

And what kind of locker and PT kit can you get for $700? The Cruiser Outfitters PT kit is about $900 by itself, a locker ARB, TJM, Eaton/Harrop is about 1,100 +/- then you have to buy an install kit for a locker: just parts is prob over $2500

The full kit with hubs (although probably not good ones) the spool for the center diff with a bearing pressed on, and the front lokka is $770 shipped.

According to lokka because the 100 is AWD you need free wheeling hubs to fit an auto locker up there

Just their part time kit is like $400 without a spool bearing already pressed on

I wasn't aware what other parts you would need for a harrop install, I saw they were around $1100 and I figured you'd just need the wiring to do it yourself. What comes in the install kit and how much is that?

 

[abuck99]

The full kit with hubs (although probably not good ones) the spool for the center diff with a bearing pressed on, and the front lokka is $770 shipped.

According to lokka because the 100 is AWD you need free wheeling hubs to fit an auto locker up there

Just their part time kit is like $400 without a spool bearing already pressed on

I wasn't aware what other parts you would need for a harrop install, I saw they were around $1100 and I figured you'd just need the wiring to do it yourself. What comes in the install kit and how much is that?

Master install kit for the front is about $325- required when installing a locker

Kit Contents:
Pinion Bearing & Race x2
Carrier Bearing & Race x2
Pinion Nut x1
Pinion Seal x1
Pinion Depth Shims
Crush Sleeve x1
Stub Axle Side Seal x2
Silicone x1
Marking Compound x1
Brush x1
Loctite x1

You are being redirected...

And FWIW I would not recommend using an AUTO-Locker in a front end application.

 

[thebeedeegee]

Master install kit for the front is about $325- required when installing a locker

Kit Contents:
Pinion Bearing & Race x2
Carrier Bearing & Race x2
Pinion Nut x1
Pinion Seal x1
Pinion Depth Shims
Crush Sleeve x1
Stub Axle Side Seal x2
Silicone x1
Marking Compound x1
Brush x1
Loctite x1

You are being redirected...

And FWIW I would not recommend using an AUTO-Locker in a front end application.

Ah I had assumed you could use your stock ring gear and pinion.

 

[nissanh]

The $$$ you save by going into 2WD from a factory made AWD is truly a downgrade in safety. I wish all my 4WD's are AWD's. The fuel mileage is truly negligible. I get 17.6 MPG on my AWD LC at 75 MPH and 17 MPG on my 3rd gen 4runner (with 4WD on) at 70-80 MPH (driven on pouring rain).