Antenna replace - power? rth'ish (1 Viewer)

[musthave]

Replaced original antenna that had a broken antenna cable, and a mast that was shredded.

Prepared to do installation of 86300-60050. The 4 wires that ran to the center of the original antenna aren't used, so it's the blue/blue yellow coming from the vehicle harness and going into the blue/blue white of the antenna. Easy enough. Tried it, but the antenna didn't move. Tested with using the button up/down, nothing. Then unplugged and tested the two pin connector, no power. Hmmm I don't think that the antenna is on a separate fuse. Wondering why it wouldn't be getting power. Any ideas?

 

[retlaw]

Replaced original antenna that had a broken antenna cable, and a mast that was shredded.

Prepared to do installation of 86300-60050. The 4 wires that ran to the center of the original antenna aren't used, so it's the blue/blue yellow coming from the vehicle harness and going into the blue/blue white of the antenna. Easy enough. Tried it, but the antenna didn't move. Tested with using the button up/down, nothing. Then unplugged and tested the two pin connector, no power. Hmmm I don't think that the antenna is on a separate fuse. Wondering why it wouldn't be getting power. Any ideas?

Its possible that the 4 wires which go to the auto antenna relay (on the oem antenna ) need to signal the auto antenna ECU in order for it to supply power when the buttons are pushed. I admit I dont fully understand how it works.... I think this is the very question that was asked a few weeks ago......will the pre-1997 antenna with one connector work on a 97 with two connectors.....maybe you've answered it.

 

[musthave]

So, I still have the 4 wires that went to the antenna relay, I have them taped up. I wonder if there is a way to "fool" the ecu so that it sends the power to the blue/blue yellow wire. Hmmm.

 

[retlaw]

Does the radio need to be ON? Looking at the LX EWD....it might. Good idea on faking the ECU but I cant tell from the EWD what to do.

 

[musthave]

The radio is on and working fine. Maybe someone will chime in on the faking of the ECU. Or, I'll need to order an ECU.

 

[retlaw]

You have an ECU now, right?

 

[Kernal]

Looking for that answer myself. Wonder if something needs to be removed
or bypassed to turn the Antenna circuit into manual only operation like
in previous year models??

 

[retlaw]

I just looked up a 1996 LC EWD and the manual switch is completely different than the 97 LX ( I think the 97 LC is the same as the LX).
The 97 switch just sends a ground to the ECU...ground on pin 1 antenna goes UP...ground on pin 9 antenna goes down.
The 96 switch sends 12 volts and ground directly to the antenna motor....switching polarity for up and down.

Kernal...you would need a 96 switch and some rewiring to make it work manually without the ECU.

Now...I think musthave has the ECU and its not working with a pre 97 antenna (no auto antenna relay)....the 4 wires for the auto antenna relay (mounted right on the 97 antenna assembly) are: Black is signal ground. Red is signal. White is VCC which I believe is a variable voltage sent to the ECU depending on what position the antenna is in...White/Black is chassis ground. The question here is: Will the ECU still work (and also the manual buttons) without the auto antenna relay (Pre 97 antenna).
I wish I knew. I will look for an answer.

 

[musthave]

I just looked up a 1996 LC EWD and the manual switch is completely different than the 97 LX ( I think the 97 LC is the same as the LX).
The 97 switch just sends a ground to the ECU...ground on pin 1 antenna goes UP...ground on pin 9 antenna goes down.
The 96 switch sends 12 volts and ground directly to the antenna motor....switching polarity for up and down.

Kernal...you would need a 96 switch and some rewiring to make it work manually without the ECU.

Now...I think musthave has the ECU and its not working with a pre 97 antenna (no auto antenna relay)....the 4 wires for the auto antenna relay (mounted right on the 97 antenna assembly) are: Black is signal ground. Red is signal. White is VCC which I believe is a variable voltage sent to the ECU depending on what position the antenna is in...White/Black is chassis ground. The question here is: Will the ECU still work (and also the manual buttons) without the auto antenna relay (Pre 97 antenna).
I wish I knew. I will look for an answer.

Thanks @retlaw I appreciate your input and knowledge. Let me know if you find out something. I think I have an ECU above the 4WD relay on the passenger kick panel.

 

[bigredmachine]

or go to a whip style antenna and not worry about the power antenna?

 

[retlaw]

I currently use the non-motorized oem antenna.

Yes...the auto antenna ECU is in the PS kick panel.

Looking at the ECU diagram I see that the switching of the antenna is done by two relays (these take the place of the pre 97 manual switches).
It seems possible to rewire the ECU so that the 97 switch could control the relays directly instead of the microprocessor in the ECU doing it.
That would eliminate the 4 wire connector AND most of the electronics in the ECU. Those relays are already connected to the motor its just a matter of getting 12 volts and and ground to them.
I dont want to rewire mine but I will keep an eye out for another one to experiment with. It seems worthwhile.

 

[retlaw]

If someone has a working 97 auto antenna we would learn something if they would disconnect the 4 wire connector to see if it still works with the buttons.
If it doesnt then maybe musthave is on the right track to somehow fake out the ECU by doing something at that connector. That would be much easier than rewiring the ECU. Anyone?

 

[musthave]

If someone has a working 97 auto antenna we would learn something if they would disconnect the 4 wire connector to see if it still works with the buttons.
If it doesnt then maybe musthave is on the right track to somehow fake out the ECU by doing something at that connector. That would be much easier than rewiring the ECU. Anyone?

That would be the best way to determine things. From what I can tell the 96LX, 97LX, 96LC, and 97LC have the same Antenna ECU so anyone with those vehicles should see the 4 pin connector that connects to the antenna. If they take that off, then see if the antenna is working, we would absolutely determine that the ECU is the culprit/answer.

If the ECU can be "faked", this would let future people experience this issue bypass the ECU, and it would allow people to buy the $200 antenna vs. the $400 antenna.

 

[retlaw]

That would be the best way to determine things. From what I can tell the 96LX, 97LX, 96LC, and 97LC have the same Antenna ECU so anyone with those vehicles should see the 4 pin connector that connects to the antenna. If they take that off, then see if the antenna is working, we would absolutely determine that the ECU is the culprit/answer.

If the ECU can be "faked", this would let future people experience this issue bypass the ECU, and it would allow people to buy the $200 antenna vs. the $400 antenna.

I now know a little more: I put a volt meter on the 2 pin connector (motor power) and left the 4 pin connector unconnected. When I turn on the radio I get +12v on the two pins (antenna up) and when I turn the radio off I get -12v on the two pins (antenna down). There is a timer that runs enough to raise or lower the antenna and then shuts off. All good. The UP button would give the +12V to the motor and would time out as it should. The Down button didnt do anything....only turning the radio off gave the -12V to lower the antenna. Keep in mind that mine has never worked right but I never got a chance to test it since the antenna mast was destroyed...thats why I temporarily installed the manual oem mast.
So...musthave, you should have power to the 2 pin connector even w/o the 4 pins being used....
I tore apart the sensor (called auto antenna relay) on the motor housing and its a magnetic field sensor (maybe a Hall Effect device....Im still learning)...there are no moving parts in the "relay"....it uses a magnet on the mast spool to operate. And Im still not sure of its purpose since the timer that does still work will start and stop the antenna so the motor and or gears dont get stressed.
I also thought that you would have control of how much antenna was out or in by using the UP/DOWN buttons but it seems to be all UP or all DOWN....someone could confirm this easily.
I'll keep on it.

 

[retlaw]

I DID look at a 1996 LC EWD and it did not have the auto ECU.

 

[retlaw]

musthave: I think that without the violet wire (pin 8 of the larger connector on the radio) that runs from the radio to the ECU you wouldnt get any voltage to the motor.....The ECU would think the radio was OFF. I know some after-market installations omit this connection.

 

[musthave]

musthave: I think that without the violet wire (pin 8 of the larger connector on the radio) that runs from the radio to the ECU you wouldnt get any voltage to the motor.....The ECU would think the radio was OFF. I know some after-market installations omit this connection.

So, because the 4 wires are no longer used by the new antenna, how would I get power to the 2-pin connector that the antenna plugs into? So, do I need to give power to the violet wire?

 

[retlaw]

Do you have the OEM radio? ...sounds like you dont. I cant tell from the EWD what happens with the violet wire when the radio is on and off. I would not apply "power" to it until we know how it works.

 

[musthave]

It is not the OEM radio. It is an Alpine ilx-w650.

 

[DivByZero]

I just finished installing a 86300-60060 auto antenna in a RHD Australian spec 1996 80 series, with a few tweaks to make it work more the way I wanted. It sounds like that uses a similar system (4 wire sensor plug, 2 wire motor plug) for the antenna as what your rig used originally. You should probably rely on info someone can test/confirm from your actual setup, but I know a lot about my similar setup with the work I did on it recently.

Some dumb questions here first though: It sounds like you already had a full power antenna setup, but the mast was broken, is that correct? If so, why not just replace the mast? The antenna I picked up also had a broken mast, but you can get aftermarket replacements that work just as well for cheap. I got this one for example: TOYOTA LANDCRUISER ANTENNA MAST Land cruiser (80 Series) 1990 to 1998 AERIAL 9328974008718 | eBay

If that's not an option, I'd next ask what do you want to get out of this? If you just want to manually control the height of the antenna, and don't care about the antenna going up or down automatically when you turn the car/radio on or off, the best option is probably to remove the ECU entirely and directly wire your antenna up/down to the motor. In fact, earlier ARL non-power antenna models had a "dummy" plug in the antenna ECU socket from the factory that direct wired the antenna up/down buttons to the motor in this case. You could drop in the power antenna and the switch, and not use an ECU. At this time the buttons were grounded when not pressed, or carrying +12v when pressed, so it was sufficient to directly connect them to the antenna motor. In the 1995 ARL models the setup changed, with the buttons grounding to signal to the ECU when to raise/lower the antenna, which is what you have on your setup as I understand it. In this case, you could still do some rewiring at the switch and bridge a few wires at the ECU connector to make it work.

If you want the antenna to go up/down with the radio or car turning on and off, you need the ECU. In this case, I'd really recommend sticking with the 4+2 wire antenna unit. Major surgery to the ECU, or an ECU swap, would probably be required otherwise. Doesn't really sound worth the effort to me, but that's just my opinion.