another what's that noise thread (whining only under high load)

[amaurer]

serious question is- with noise and vibrations, worsening, with a past of no oil, with flakes of bearing in there- what is the danger of running just a little more in this thing (considering I do not plan to re-build this one) ? Do they just get noisier? or is it going to seize on me and cause even more problems?
I am not talking about just driving this thing like normal again- I am talking the odd emergency for work when I cannot do it any other way- and driving out to pick up another TC and associated supplies? Doing this only for the time between now and finding a good donor or rebuilding a not so good donor...?

I'd do it, but you're probably going to wreck the case for good. If you're ok with that, I think a failure that propagates to somewhere else is relatively unlikely.

 

[Buckwheat]

Buy a kit

The split case can be gone through w/o pulling the trans, if it is similar to that on my 62, which was behind an auto trans. It can easily be done in a day, assuming you have access to pullers & presses for the bearings, and a manual - definitely get an OEM manual, the others are s***e. You remove everything and the front of the case can be left in place on the back of the trans, or in my 62, the adapter housing. I'd say there's a good chance the gears can be saved, even if they are a little hammered. The bad bearing may be why you were popping out of 4WD & freshening up the seals & bearings should give you the time to round up a good replacement unit.

 

[beejay42]

Cheers Amaurer, I'll have a think about it. I just wonder if this one I have in is even worth rebuilding?

Buckwheat,
no pullers, no press-
I have the downloadable 1980 Toyota repair manual: chassis and body, which covers the TC- and was planning on printing that out.

I'll just have to see what turns up over the next couple of days.
Thanks guys.

 

[Pin_Head]

Chances are that it is rebuildable. Bearings fail, but they don't necessarily cause significant damage to the gears. I would remove the tranny/transfer assembly to repair it because I don't enjoy working under the truck that much.

 

[Buckwheat]

Machine shop?

Or local garage can probably do the pressing for you. I like working under my rig because my wife leaves me alone. If I'm at the bench, she likes to hover over me until I give up & come inside. She has yet to crawl under & I can bang on things & ignore her in perfect safety there.

 

[beejay42]

Pinhead, removing both at once I find a little daunting with my current 'workshop' and capabilities. I feel much more confident of just trying to muscle out and in the TC...

LOL Buckwheat
I know what you mean there (Sshhh! she's watching)
I don't mind working under the truck- main problem is that I don't have a garage, so I am crawling under the thing on old uneven paved brick and dirt. Wet weather work is not much fun.
I've priced a rebuild kit here- $180-ish. Then I have to add a torque wrench on top of that (which I need to get anyway), and a few more things (which I WANT to get). If it comes to rebuilding I should be able to find somewhere or way to press in the bearings.
I got my diff gaskets today from Toyota, so will get the diff back in and the drive train together tomorrow.
There is a possibility to buy a great condition TC, and tranny too, if I can wait a bit until the person gets the engine they are trying to find (swapping a turboed 3B for another diesel)- and If mine drives OK with oil in it tomorrow on its test, and if I can handle the price of this TC (and maybe tranny)... then I might go that route, and just keep driving this one as a sacraficial until the good one becomes available.
I know this one could very well be rebuildable- and I might go that way- I just have no idea how long this has run with no oil in it- the PO was a 18-19 yr old kid. if I can get something with a more reliable history I would much prefer going that way...
then after all that, and once the pressure is off, I can pull this one apart for fun and try to rebuild it anyway

 

[Pin_Head]

You worry too much. If it had really been run with NO gear lube, it would be siezed, not just noisy.

Installing another case is the same work as rebuilding it, except with used bearings rather than new.

Use the "rope" method described in the FSM to drop and lift the tranny/transfer assembly. You don't want to be fooling with this in the mud and dirt.

 

[Buckwheat]

Put a 1/4 sheet of plywood underneath to slide around on. As to the rain, can't help you with that one. I don't think it's that good an idea to drive that thing, it could seize up your drive train at speed, with possible bad consequences. Now, if you ain't got no choice, that's different. If it's optional, rebuild it, it ain't that difficult. What's the worst that could happen? You could totally **** it up & be walking, or you could solve your problem for the price of the kit & a few hours of your time. At least replace the wasted bearing. Borrow or rent a torque wrench. Check out this thread - there is no way your case looks like this one!

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/188968-split-case-rebuild.html

 

[beejay42]

You worry too much. If it had really been run with NO gear lube, it would be siezed, not just noisy.

Installing another case is the same work as rebuilding it, except with used bearings rather than new.

Use the "rope" method described in the FSM to drop and lift the tranny/transfer assembly. You don't want to be fooling with this in the mud and dirt.

I am sure I do worry too much...
However, for the time I have had it at the very least- it has run with no lube- I know this because today getting under it again it has finally started to show its leaks. In my time of ownership it has not leaked at all.
Anyway, that is beside the point...

yeah I might try to rebuild it. Emphasis on 'try'.

I've been reading through the chassis and body manual I have that covers the T-case service- is this the one you are talking about?
if so where/what page is the description of this rope method to drop the T-case?
If you are familiar with it, would you mind briefly describing it?

Ideally I would like to try to do this by just removing the T-Case rather than dropping the pair...
I will probably be doing this on my own.

Put a 1/4 sheet of plywood underneath to slide around on. As to the rain, can't help you with that one. I don't think it's that good an idea to drive that thing, it could seize up your drive train at speed, with possible bad consequences. Now, if you ain't got no choice, that's different. If it's optional, rebuild it, it ain't that difficult. What's the worst that could happen? You could totally **** it up & be walking, or you could solve your problem for the price of the kit & a few hours of your time. At least replace the wasted bearing. Borrow or rent a torque wrench. Check out this thread - there is no way your case looks like this one!

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/188968-split-case-rebuild.html

Well, tomorrow morning I will be rocking up to an office to do a small painting job... on my mountain bike gear in my bag on my back... fine this time because I only need one drop sheet, one roller/tray/extension pole, one bucket/brush and a few extra bits and bobs...
I am managing at the moment without a car but I have some big jobs coming up soon and I need my wheels back.

Today was a lovely day, sunny, warm, rode around and bought some tools, got a semi-decent torque wrench, got a nice set of ratchet spanners, and another cheap set of spanners... forgot the circlip pliers, I'll pick them up tomorrow...
came back and put the drive train back together, front and rear tailshafts, and barely managed to muscle in the rear third member on my own... goddamit that bastard was heavy to lift and position in such a awkward position.

Filled up all the fluids and took it for a very short test drive (picked up a six pack).
The noise and vibrations are there just as strong only now a little bit muffled by the oil.
Not happy to drive it like this and wait for a T-case to turn up so its time to pull it.

Unless a T-case becomes available before then, tomorrow morning I will order in the rebuild kit and try to pull it and start work on it this weekend.


Thanks for all the help so far guys. I am learning all this as I go, ambling thru my errors and trials one at a time...

next thing- or concurrently- I want to pull the front axel apart. The oil that came out of the front diff was a little chocolate milky... with the front hubs locked, there is a lot of movent possible on the diff flange thing... how much is normal?

later,
Hans.

 

[Pin_Head]

The '81 chassis manual shows using two strands of rope between the frame rails as a sling under the tranny/transfer to support it during removal and installation. The strands go over the top of the frame rail, under the tranny and back over the top of the next rail. I have used this method with ratchet straps as a trail fix. It is cave man style, but it works.

I don't think that driving it a bit more it goint to hurt it much.

Rotational play in the diff flange is entirely normal.

 

[beejay42]

Thanks Pin_Head,
ratchet straps sound like a good idea.
I just weighed a third member- and if our dodgey old bathroom scales work then it is only 30-ish Kg's, what a pussy I am as far as I can tell the T-case will weigh 40-ish Kgs... definitely going to to need some sort of assist system. This time at least I am going to have my truck up on blocks rather than just crawling under it as it sits on its rubber- cave man style indeed- I was grunting and roaring like one with that diff today

by rotational play in the diff flange- I have very little in the rear- a few degrees maybe- and about 10X that in the front with the hubs locked. Doesn't quite turn a full quarter, but it is not far off.
I don't fully understand the locking mechanism of the front hubs yet- but that seems like a dramatic difference to me?

81' manual hey? I've got the 80' manual... it keeps saying "see transmission removal section, fig 3-2 to 3-5"
however, there is no such section that I have found, certainly no fig 3-2 to 3-5 in any synchronized order- it appears to just be missing.

I'll have to see if I can find another manual to download.

Thanks mate,

 

[beejay42]

EDIT- scratch that, I found the removal section in the 1980 manual, cheers.