Alignment issue (1 Viewer)

[JDUB fab]

Ever since I upgraded my lift springs the rig pulls to the right. I got one alignment, still pulled to the right. Put new wheels and tires on and got a second alignment and same problem.

Any thoughts or suggestions for places or parts to check? Lot of suspension components to go through, just wanted to throw this out there and see if anyone has had similar issues.

 

[Bang Bang]

Seems to be hit or miss for me. When I got the rig (suspension, and larger MT tires on stock wheels already installed) it pulled to the right. I got a 3 year alignment deal from NTB, which they were reluctant to do, but it aligned almost perfectly. A few months later I had some work done which required another alignment. The NTB shop I went to that time was HORRIBLE! The tech had no idea what he was doing and set off some warning indicator on the dash and the alignment wasn't close. I went back to the original NTB and they got it close but it isn't near perfect like it was the first time. I have learned to live with it. No uneven wear on the tires that I can see as I do a 5 tire rotation every 5k religiously.

 

[Rednexus]

This can also be caused by tires (try rotating left to right and see if it goes away), loose/worn steering rack bushings (causing the center point of the wheel to move randomly due to the whole rack shifting), problems with other various bushings/links, or an alignment tech who struggles with lifted vehicles. Also if you are running factory UCAs with a lift you may always struggle to get a good alignment.

I would suggest checking the easy things listed above and, if you still have issues, finding the best alignment shop in your area. My local independent shop does a pretty good job and actually drives the vehicle after the alignment (great deal for $50!). I would probably avoid the chain stores; you'll want to find someone that takes the time to set it up right instead of half-assing it to barely be within specs.

 

[gnob]

the solution is a real alignment shop with a tech that does a test drive to check their work.
you likely have weak caster on that side.

 

[re_guderian]

Post up a pic of the alignment numbers after the the first and second alignments.

Does it pull all the time, or only on acceleration? Does it still pull to the right if you're driving on the left side of a properly crowned two-lane road? While you're straddling the centerline? What are your hub center to fender measurements, front and rear?

 

[drowzyGX]

I’ve had bad luck with chain alignment shops as well. Found a place nearby that tends to deal with exotics and performance cars. Noticed there’s always a lifted landcruiser or something similar when I go there. The techs know how to properly align a lifted 4wd vehicle. It’s expensive - $120 - but the alignment is bang on perfect.

 

[Rednexus]

the solution is a real alignment shop with a tech that does a test drive to check their work.
you likely have weak caster on that side.

Lots of other things can cause this issue and are not based on the alignment shop. I fought with it for a month (including my shop correctly telling me the alignment was fine), only to find it was loose bolts on my steering rack. A shop certainly can be part of the issue, but there is a lot of other things that can go wrong too.

Also, the shops sometime don't torque down the alignment cam bolts all of the way, and they slip. I'd check them for tightness yourself regardless of how good the shop is.

 

[gnob]

Lots of other things can cause this issue and are not based on the alignment shop. I fought with it for a month (including my shop correctly telling me the alignment was fine), only to find it was loose bolts on my steering rack. A shop certainly can be part of the issue, but there is a lot of other things that can go wrong too.

Also, the shops sometime don't torque down the alignment cam bolts all of the way, and they slip. I'd check them for tightness yourself regardless of how good the shop is.

so the shop doesn't cause the problems, except when they do?

 

[JDUB fab]

Love the input!
It’s not a chain shop, just one guy who almost does nothing other than alignments, often on offroad lifted vehicles. He does test drive that’s how I know it’s off still, he is going to swap the tires and see if that helps. I don’t have my alignment specs for this second version with the 35s yet. But I’ll post the first alignment numbers from after the lift but before the SCS wheels and 35” tires.
I have SPC uppers at setting D, LCAs are maxed forward, but the issue presented before they were maxed as well.
I did the lift install… which makes me suspicious of anything I touched, I also did the eimkeith pan hard bar mount relocate and a diff drop.
Just after lift install I was at almost 4” of lift all around. Havnt measured since, hoping it has settled to about 3.
I should have it back with the numbers later this afternoon I’ll report back.

 

[JDUB fab]

Post lift, pre SCS wheels and 35” tires alignment numbers

 

[Rednexus]

so the shop doesn't cause the problems, except when they do?

If you take a vehicle with a loose steering rack, bad tie rod ends, worn control arm bushings, worn tires, big lift on OEM UCAs etc to the best alignment shop in the USA, you still won't get a perfect alignment. There are a lot of factors that go into it, saying "it's always the shop" ignores all of the mechanical problems a vehicle can have that can make it difficult or impossible to get a good alignment. Time and money spent running to multiple alignment shops would be better spent fixing the actual problem.

If the vehicle is mechanically fine and the alignment still has problems then, yes, it is the shop.

 

[re_guderian]

Post lift, pre SCS wheels and 35” tires alignment numbers
View attachment 3262100

What's with the caster numbers being greyed out?

Looks like they're only adjusting camber and toe???

And new wheels and tires shouldn't affect the geometry of the alignment by default.

 

[JDUB fab]

What's with the caster numbers being greyed out?

Looks like they're only adjusting camber and toe???

And new wheels and tires shouldn't affect the geometry of the alignment by default.

Not sure about caster color I’ll ask him.

 

[JDUB fab]

Got the rig back yesterday, definitly still pulling to the right. Swapped the front tires and it feels like maybe it’s pulling even more to the right.. It’s odd, the steering wheel seems permanently turned to the left? See image, on the highway going 70, it rides fairly strait with the wheel turned to the left, if straitened it goes right. On slower roads when I let go it pulls to the right for sure, but on the highway it almost doesn’t pull.
Makes me wonder about the pitman arm.. long time ago on my T-100 I removed the pitman arm and had to have it reset. I never touched the steering stuff when I did the lift on the GX, so not sure why that would happen..
didn’t get the readout from the alignment, the guy was crazy busy. I’ll ask him to send it to me.
I still have a feeling it’s suspension related, or these tires are f***ed. got the tires used..

 

[gnob]

you have negative caster and positive camber going right.
you need ucas......
and a real tech.

 

[gnob]

If you take a vehicle with a loose steering rack, bad tie rod ends, worn control arm bushings, worn tires, big lift on OEM UCAs etc to the best alignment shop in the USA, you still won't get a perfect alignment. There are a lot of factors that go into it, saying "it's always the shop" ignores all of the mechanical problems a vehicle can have that can make it difficult or impossible to get a good alignment. Time and money spent running to multiple alignment shops would be better spent fixing the actual problem.

If the vehicle is mechanically fine and the alignment still has problems then, yes, it is the shop.

a real shop won't align a vehicle with sloppy parts.

 

[Rednexus]

Got the rig back yesterday, definitly still pulling to the right. Swapped the front tires and it feels like maybe it’s pulling even more to the right.. It’s odd, the steering wheel seems permanently turned to the left? See image, on the highway going 70, it rides fairly strait with the wheel turned to the left, if straitened it goes right. On slower roads when I let go it pulls to the right for sure, but on the highway it almost doesn’t pull.
Makes me wonder about the pitman arm.. long time ago on my T-100 I removed the pitman arm and had to have it reset. I never touched the steering stuff when I did the lift on the GX, so not sure why that would happen..
didn’t get the readout from the alignment, the guy was crazy busy. I’ll ask him to send it to me.
I still have a feeling it’s suspension related, or these tires are f***ed. got the tires used..

The GX does not have a pitman arm (rack and pinion steering), but there is a quite a bit of stuff in the rack and pinion that could cause issues. I'd start first at the rack bushings - if they are loose or worn (which is common on higher-mileage vehicles), the whole rack can move side-to-side and cause some very strange behavior (sometimes pulls straight, sometime pulls right). Your alignment tech is probably not going to do a full check of every bushing in your suspension (despite what the previous poster seemed to imply), and it's very possible to have a perfect alignment and still get the side-to-side pull.

Tie rods (inner and outer) can also cause issues but don't often fail on GX's, outside of off-road abuse bending/breaking them.

You can also try a front/rear tire swap to fully rule tires out as the problem.

 

[JDUB fab]

you have negative caster and positive camber going right.
you need ucas......
and a real tech.

Have SPC UCAs

 

[r2m]

the solution is a real alignment shop with a tech that does a test drive to check their work.
you likely have weak caster on that side.

Agree with gnob. If you went back to the same shop, I'd try another shop and also look at the quantity and quality rating on Yelp.
And was posted further down, MAKE SURE THEY TEST DRIVE IT!
My last Landcruiser had a problem similar and it pulled hard to the right under acceleration.
Part of the problem was that the front torsion bars were lifted a little too much and messed with the steering linkage geometry. Have them look at the steering geometry also.
Hope this gets resolved.

 

[vipergrhd]

A lot of good advice and it comes down to a GOOD tech/mechanic to really understand the suspension and steering, once factory suspension and steering is changed the factory alignment specs. goes out the door as a mechanic you have to understand the threshold of each angle to just to avoid excessive tire wear and get the steering straight down the road. I am not good on explaining things but it's all in my head in my early years as a tech/mechanic that's all I did the alignment rack was my buddy and back then older Mercedes was always a nightmare to align due to their suspension design and geometry this is were you start fine tuning the adjustments and lots of test drive. It is not any different from our lifted rigs you just need the patience and know how to do it right and understand the geometry of the vehicle. Alignment is not just camber caster and toe other angles are present that could affect your ride and steering. Some reading materials since I'm not good at explaining.

Scrub radius - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org