AHC vs Coilovers

[Reckless]

Since I am getting my coilovers installed I was wondering how other people felt. The suspension on the LC/LX is the most important part to make the vehicle feel like go anywhere in comfort Cruiser.

I had a 100 LX and converted it to OME 1.5" Lift. In the beginning I hated it but overtime I grew to like the springs and the road feel as opposed to being disconnected from the road (I did hate the firmness of the OME spring and was used to it until I got my 200). When buying my 200, I drove over 10 LC/LX trying to make a decision on which I preferred and ended up going with the Toyota and paid more $5k more for it. I was able to park the LC easier with less hassle in a tight car dealership parking lot then the LX. Also, the LX had a very annoying bounce to it that no matter what setting I put it in it didn't feel plush or sport. I do believe the AHC in LX200 is much more reliable and good for ~200k miles. Also, the height control was a nifty feature getting in and out of the vehicle.

I drove around last night with my Icon front coilovers installed (stock rear springs) and it felt soo much better than stock. One side was taller than the other but it still felt plush (not super plush) but plush even with only the fronts installed. Getting rears installed today and hopefully having fronts fixed as well.

 

[TonyP]

Oh man, here we go again....

 

[TeCKis300]

^Hah. It's somewhat moot as if you go LC, you've got the aftermarket at your whim. LX, you're stuck with AHC.

AHC reliability should be as legendary as the Land Cruiser itself if this is anything to go by:

@3:00 -

 

[Reckless]

I had my AHC fail multiple times on my 100.

I am thinking about my second 200 eventually and always ponder should I go LX or LC.

 

[mcgaskins]

What is this AHC you speak of?

 

[linuxgod]

I drove around last night with my Icon front coilovers installed (stock rear springs) and it felt soo much better than stock. One side was taller than the other but it still felt plush (not super plush) but plush even with only the fronts installed. Getting rears installed today and hopefully having fronts fixed as well.

left-to-right you should be within 1/2". Anything more than 15mm is out of spec. Thankfully you can adjust your front coilovers to hopefully get it level.

Are you doing rear springs too or just shocks? If you do springs in the rear make sure the taller spring is installed on the passenger side, or you'll get 1.5 to 2" of lean

 

[Reckless]

Just shocks. I think with stock rear springs it will ride real smooth. Just with the fronts installed it was riding alot better than stock. I will write a full review once its all done and I get an alignment. Looking for some expert in Chicago to get this done right.

Thanks for the info, I sent it to my mechanic. He is having a harder time with the rears because of the adapter bracket and the slee sliders not being able to be routed there.

 

[RyanR]

Two totally different animals. I will say having built multiple Jeeps and Toyotas in the past, I love the AHC. Properly setup Kings with appropriate springs rates are the closest thing I have found to a no compromise suspension in terms of ride quality. Old Man Emu NitroChargers are the best thing I have found in terms of a zero maintenance solution.

I find the AHC system exciting because, for MY use, it gives me the best of all worlds without any compromises (Again, for MY use). I can raise the truck up at a flip of a switch for the trail. Lower it back down when I hit the pavement. It drops even lower at highway speeds and feels incredibly planted and stable. I can slam it on the ground when parked so my wife can get in and out easily in a dress heels or make it easy to load our daughter in her car seat.

I can put it in Sport Mode and switch the transmission to PWR mode and actually enjoy a spirited drive through a canyon. Or I can Flip the suspension over to Comfort mode and make the broken pavement, uneven lanes, potholes and bumps on my commute through a perpetual construction zone all but disappear as I float through traffic. (The difference between Sport and Comfort is profound. The same section of road in Sport mode literally hurts my back it is so jarring.)

MY use includes a significant amount of off-road use and some challenging trails, but it doesn't include the extreme abuse and high speed off-road use that my previous vehicles have seen. With that said it would probably take a lot of that abuse surprisingly well, but I also have no illusions that AHC is going to soak up repeated whoops at 90MPH or absorb hard landings quite like quality coilover.

 

[Reckless]

Great explanation and very well put. LX definitely has its place and for the right user I think it is a great solution. I wonder if it's because of my decades of driving BMWs that I dislike the disconnected air ride feeling. Also, driving aggressively with air ride doesn't give the same satisfaction when you have slight feedback from the road.

If I can find a way to stop AHC from bouncing too much I might consider the LX just to be different than the LC for my second 200. It would be nice to stuff 34-35s with AHC.

 

[linuxgod]

Just shocks. I think with stock rear springs it will ride real smooth. Just with the fronts installed it was riding alot better than stock. I will write a full review once its all done and I get an alignment. Looking for some expert in Chicago to get this done right.

Thanks for the info, I sent it to my mechanic. He is having a harder time with the rears because of the adapter bracket and the slee sliders not being able to be routed there.

Since your lift is so mild you can probably go anywhere, but the best alignment shop in Chicagoland is thalmannsa18105565-120717-sml-1.

What issue are you having with the rears? The rear shocks are easy to replace. You slip a 22mm wrench in between the frame and the fender and the factory shocks have a six-sided body near the top you can hold to keep the shock from spinning as you turn the wrench.

 

[TeCKis300]

Great explanation and very well put. LX definitely has its place and for the right user I think it is a great solution. I wonder if it's because of my decades of driving BMWs that I dislike the disconnected air ride feeling. Also, driving aggressively with air ride doesn't give the same satisfaction when you have slight feedback from the road.

If I can find a way to stop AHC from bouncing too much I might consider the LX just to be different than the LC for my second 200. It would be nice to stuff 34-35s with AHC.

I'm still unsure of the "bouncing" you're referring to. There's no bouncing to speak of in my experience, regardless of load. That would be unbecoming of a Lexus if it were tuned anything like that.

I alternate between my LX570 and 911 Turbo daily, which has high end coilovers and solid bushings at key mounts. I certainly know my way around suspension modifications having tuned and done all my own work. So my tush is quite calibrated to suspension feedback. I don't in anyway feel AHC is disconnected.

On the contrary, it allows the tank of a car, on solid axle rear suspension no less, to be more than just a bit competent. Absolutely controlled damping (which I would expect as it's fully active). Flat cornering. No brake dive (as it implements a secondary spring rate at the front axle just to handle this).

 

[Angelo1]

What’s the off road clearance height on the LX 570 vs a lifted LC both using identical size tires?

 

[UCrazyKid]

The

Great explanation and very well put. LX definitely has its place and for the right user I think it is a great solution. I wonder if it's because of my decades of driving BMWs that I dislike the disconnected air ride feeling. Also, driving aggressively with air ride doesn't give the same satisfaction when you have slight feedback from the road.

If I can find a way to stop AHC from bouncing too much I might consider the LX just to be different than the LC for my second 200. It would be nice to stuff 34-35s with AHC.

AHC system is hydrolic, not pneumatic (air) and controls height only, there is still a spring and shock. If it is bouncy, consider tires and tire pressure as I have found they can make a big difference in ride quality on the LX.

 

[GordJ]

I don't have air ride, just the standard AHC but mine doesn't bounce at all. The ride is controlled on pavement and comfortable on dirt. I don't find any significant difference between the LC ride and the LX ride IMO. I definitely don't feel the disconnect of which you speak unless it is the momentum of a 3 ton vehicle. I suspect that the bounciness comes from somewhere other than the suspension. Its been a long time since my BMW days so I can't comment.

 

[Markuson]

I don't have air ride, just the standard AHC but mine doesn't bounce at all. The ride is controlled on pavement and comfortable on dirt. I don't find any significant difference between the LC ride and the LX ride IMO. I definitely don't feel the disconnect of which you speak unless it is the momentum of a 3 ton vehicle. I suspect that the bounciness comes from somewhere other than the suspension. Its been a long time since my BMW days so I can't comment.

My impression from what Reckless reports about disconnect is likely referring to his stock suspension.
On my 2008, it felt that way big time...where I could hear the suspension literally
bouncing around under there like a wet noodle.

I think just about ANY suspension replacement will feel like a major upgrade over stock's limp, blubbery feel.

 

[FinallyGotOne!]

Nope, I didn't like the AHC feel on the stock Michelins either. As soon as I went to the Wildpeaks, the low-speed "bounce" (felt like poorly damped rebound) was gone and now the ride is perfect. Huge difference, noticeable on the speed bumps in the Discount Tires lot as I was driving away. Had a smile on my face all of the way home.

Repost (probably ten times now): I had 240K miles on my '00 LX when I sold it in '15 and AHC worked perfectly, even though I did a lot of towing and lot of raising and lowering. I swapped fluid per the manual. I have zero worries about the 570 AHC and will use it and maintain it as often I as I did on the 470.

 

[Reckless]

Nope, I didn't like the AHC feel on the stock Michelins either. As soon as I went to the Wildpeaks, the low-speed "bounce" (felt like poorly damped rebound) was gone and now the ride is perfect. Huge difference, noticeable on the speed bumps in the Discount Tires lot as I was driving away. Had a smile on my face all of the way home.

This is what I was talking about. How do you think it would feel with BFG KO2s? Would that poorly damped rebound be more pronounced? Is there a way to adjust AHC to compensate for that? If I had an LX I would most likely reprogram the AHC to its tallest setting, not sure if that will ruin comfort?

I drove a number of LX570's, most of the newer ones have 20-21" wheels which I think would make things worse? I prefer a tall sidewall and would put Rock Warriors with KO2s on an LX even thought it may look absurd on the street.

 

[RyanR]

Great explanation and very well put. LX definitely has its place and for the right user I think it is a great solution. I wonder if it's because of my decades of driving BMWs that I dislike the disconnected air ride feeling. Also, driving aggressively with air ride doesn't give the same satisfaction when you have slight feedback from the road.

If I can find a way to stop AHC from bouncing too much I might consider the LX just to be different than the LC for my second 200. It would be nice to stuff 34-35s with AHC.

I have a feeling most of that is from stock P rated tires set to "comfortable" pressure levels. The ride on my LX felt very squishy, and disconnected when I first took possession of it. It didn't feel bouncy though, it felt considerably more controlled than the stock LandCruisers I was driving in comparison. Swapping tires made a night and day difference though. I went with 34" E Load Rated Falken Wildpeak At3W's and it feels very planted and the feedback is much more direct.

You're going to be doing some serious trimming to fit a true 35" tire under there but the Falken 275/65R20's are a skinny almost 35" tire. They measure out to over 34" tall at 36PSI with 3 tons of Lexus sitting on them and just shy of 35" with no load.

I've come to love the quirks of the AHC. I loved my FJ, I spent countless hours and many many suspension iterations getting it dialed-in to my liking. But once I was done it was the same truck every time I fired it up. I like that personality of the LX can be totally altered with the flip of a couple switches.

 

[RyanR]

If I had an LX I would most likely reprogram the AHC to its tallest setting, not sure if that will ruin comfort?

There is no way, that I am aware of, to reprogram the AHC to remain in it's highest setting. Once you hit a speed threshold it will force itself down to Normal Height. You can adjust the sensors however so it remains higher (or lower) across the board in all settings. You will still have the full range of adjustment up and down, you are just altering where your neutral point starts. I've played with mine a bit and it doesn't seem to have any appreciable impact on ride quality. I haven't tried adjusting it to the maximum high or low points though.

 

[RyanR]

What’s the off road clearance height on the LX 570 vs a lifted LC both using identical size tires?

There isn't anything on the LX that hangs down lower than anything underneath the LC so assuming all other factors are the same, there is no difference. If you are talking about approach, breakover and departure angles then that is going to depend on how much the landcruiser is lifted but I will say the AHC system can just about max out the suspension travel in High AHC/LowRange/CRAWL mode. I have been wheeling with a lot of 200 series LandCruisers and the LX AHC will go quite a bit higher than the standard 2-3" lifts most guys are running.