Adventures in Front Axle Land....

[OGBeno]

Well, having done a birf job last week on a fellow mudder's rig and seeing the wear on a truck with ~180K with no recorded birf job, I went in to my rig this evening.

A couple of contextual notes:

Been having some vibration/steering issues as of late and have crossed off drive line issues as I have PM'ed them to death (full drive shaft rebuilds, etc.) Driving back from NJ yesterday and pulled over at a rest stop and just gandered under the rig. The bottom 4 knuckle studs/nuts attached to the DS axle had all basically back themselves out!! Tightened them and ride was better. Got me thinking.

I did a full birfield job at 127K (currently at 160K). I figured it was at least time to repack bearings if anything.

Passenger side looke pretty good...except for the rust around the upper and lower trunion bearings and rust developing underneath the knuckle housing.

Driver side was a mess. The inner wheel bearing had seized itself to the spindle due to rust and corrosion. The upper and lower trunions were covered in rust and the bearings were barely spinning freely...

Amazingly, the M1 wheel bearing grease I had used on the wheel bearings and the trunions was still red!! Very little deterioration and still had strong coating qualities.

The DS spindle was scored a bit, but with some wire wheeling, some die grinding, and some scotch briting, I was able to get it back nice and smooth.

The birfields after disassemble looked real nice. Some slight scoring, but again, easily taken care of with some die grinding and some scotch briting.

I attribute my deterioration to two water related events:

1. DS axle being submerged in muck, mud and water for about 30 minutes in October.

2. Both PS/DS being submerged for periods of time at the Badlands in December.

Water is thy enemy!!!! I can see why the importance of checking bearings etc., after driving rig through considerable amounts of water/mud.

In any event, things are soaking as we speak for a put together tomorrow eve. I think Toyota intervals for this work (30K--bearing repack; 60K birfield job) should be changed for those of us who frequent water or mud.

Just in time as Landwagon and I travel to Badlands again on Friday for some more water!! This time, I'll be checking out stuff next week.

Anyway, just another MUD data point for all the anal PM folks out there.

Best regards.
-onur
Akron, OH

PS: This front axle stuff gets easier and easier as time goes by....I had both sides taken apart in less than 1.5 hours....a new record for me.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Oner,

As a data point, have you removed the flapper valve from your front diff vent? Also, did you add grease via the square plug at all since the repack? This is a crucial thing for many to know who wheel.

DougM

 

[drsales]

When do you sleep? It waas my rig that Onur worked on last weekend. Thanks again a great job! True blue mudder!

 

[OGBeno]

Oner,

As a data point, have you removed the flapper valve from your front diff vent? Also, did you add grease via the square plug at all since the repack? This is a crucial thing for many to know who wheel.

DougM

Yes, on both counts Doug. Removed old diff vent and added new hose and lawnmower fuel filter to end and placed up in engine compartment.

I throw in about ten to 15 squirts of moly at every oil change, or as needed via visual at weeping on knuckles.

From outward appearances, my knuckles looked like fine and dandy with usual loss via weeping, no diff oil seeping out and clean studs.

Best.
-onur

 

[OGBeno]

When do you sleep? It waas my rig that Onur worked on last weekend. Thanks again a great job! True blue mudder!

Baaaaahhhhhh....sleep....overrated!!

 

[reffug]

Driving back from NJ yesterday and pulled over at a rest stop and just gandered under the rig. The bottom 4 knuckle studs/nuts attached to the DS axle had all basically back themselves out!!

Right before I drove my rig over to a friends house to do the birf job I crawled under and checked those and found 3 out of 4 missing.

Still to this day wonder how the rig drove as well as it did.

Got lucky on that one and now check them almost every week out of paranoia.

 

[concretejungle]

beno, you have me nervous. I did my birf repack at about 120,000 and now i'm at 170,000. Been having a little wandering with the steering but at feel the tires feel snug, no play. I may go in them and check things now.

 

[Romer]

Good Data point, thanks for posting up. Glad I don't do much in the water.

 

[elmariachi]

You are right, water is the enemy. These systems are designed to be robust but they are not waterproof, they are water resistant. You can surely get water in them with one simple stream crossing. My rule of thumb is any time I get water up over the knuckle for more than a 2 second splash, I tear into it. In my opinion, that's the one benefit from the plug in the housing...you can stick a long q-tip in there for a test sample to see if its got any moisture in it.

 

[Rookie2]

Driver side was a mess. The inner wheel bearing had seized itself to the spindle due to rust and corrosion. The upper and lower trunions were covered in rust and the bearings were barely spinning freely...

Hey Onur.

This is really kind of surprising to me. The area seems fairly well sealed up (although not water tight). And with all the grease packed around the bearings...., just a little surprised you've come across this kind of corrosion. Makes you think twice about going into the water .


Rookie2

 

[Junk]

The bottom 4 knuckle studs/nuts attached to the DS axle had all basically back themselves out!! Tightened them and ride was better. .

Yup. Always check back on them after awhile. There have been several folks that have had similiar experiences like Curran etc. Also the caliper bolts (Landpimp comes to mind).

Checking is much better than taking the dirt nap.

 

[OGBeno]

Yup. Always check back on them after awhile. There have been several folks that have had similiar experiences like Curran etc. Also the caliper bolts (Landpimp comes to mind).

Checking is much better than taking the dirt nap.

Agreed. Ironically, I have checked both the knuckle studs and the brake bolts methodically since the initial front axle overhaul 33K miles ago. This situation happened recently since my last oil change....

 

[OGBeno]

Hey Onur.

This is really kind of surprising to me. The area seems fairly well sealed up (although not water tight). And with all the grease packed around the bearings...., just a little surprised you've come across this kind of corrosion. Makes you think twice about going into the water .


Rookie2

Hey R2:

Agreed. This wipers on the axle housing side and the numerous layers between the axle cap and the interior of the knuckle is formidable. That said, I did sit my front axle in mud, muck and water for a good number of hours--cumulative--over the past 6 months or so. I think this type of wear is par for submerging of axles.

I am going to go back into the job we did last March on the rear axle job and check those as well. I am suspicious right now and I would rather be safe as opposed to tempting ("bearing") fate.

Hope all is well R2.
-o-

 

[OGBeno]

beno, you have me nervous. I did my birf repack at about 120,000 and now i'm at 170,000. Been having a little wandering with the steering but at feel the tires feel snug, no play. I may go in them and check things now.

CJ--

You should at least go in and repack your wheel bearings and the hub interior with grease. When you get in there that far, you will have a good idea if you need to go further.

Bearing repack, IIRC, every 30K miles according to Mr. Toy.

Later dude.
-o-

 

[Junk]

Agreed. Ironically, I have checked both the knuckle studs and the brake bolts methodically since the initial front axle overhaul 33K miles ago. This situation happened recently since my last oil change....

Then I'd say it was junk-karma rubbing off since you were near buggerville

 

[Mickldo]

Had my head under an Isuzu NPS 300 4x4 truck the other day at work and noticed they have rubber bellows over their swivel hubs. The bellows were of a similar design to IFS CV boots. They were too big in diameter to use on a cruiser but it would be cool if somebody made some to retrofit to cruisers.

How many people have studied the front knuckle setup on Land Rovers. Their setup is about the only thing that I like about Rovers. The ball on the end of the diff housing is removable. It bolts on which makes it easy to slot the holes to correct your castor. Because it bolts on it can be hard chromed which allows the swivel hub to run a proper lipped rubber seal as opposed to the cruisers felts. These seals do such a good job of sealing they use gear oil instead of moly grease.

A mate of mine used to work at a chrome shop. He was telling me they occasionally flash chromed? toyota diff housings on the ends to let the felt seals seal better. Don't know how much it costs or whether it works or not though.

 

[IdahoDoug]

I do like the gear oil setup from the perspective you can simply drain and refill them after severe use. But. If a seal is torn or fails on the trail, you're instantly immobilized with an empty birf. On the Cruiser, you can have a similar problem but thick grease stays in place so you can correct it later. The more severe the use, the more it favors the LandCruiser's solution.

DougM

 

[Mickldo]

I agree about the grease vs oil thing. I think the Land Rover set up with the removeable hard chromed swivel ball is good though and its toughness has been proven over many years of civillian and military use. I reckon the ultimate swivel ball set up would be a similar design to the LR but with grease instead of oil and maybe a bellow arrangement if you didn't play in the rocks too much. Of course a grease nipple to pump in extra grease would be mandatory.
My Daihatsu F20 has grease nipples fitted from the factory, they're fitted to the steering knuckle bearing caps so that when you pump grease in to lube the birfs you automatically lube the bearings as well.