Adapting a Cummins 6bt to an Allison 1000

[Project FJ80]

After serching for over a year, I found this.
http://turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120126
What do you think?
If this is possible to do on a 986bt and a 03 allison 1000, Then I will have my junk running with diesel next year. Sure the Cummins may weigh 300lbs over the oem I-6, .. But how much weight does adding an arb bumper, winch, and dual batteries add on?? About that much. So, I dont think the extra 300lbs is going to break my junk.
-Ron

 

[HI^C]

not sure, but why the most expensive stock auto known to man, not including the expensive parts to use it with a none factory app computer?

98 or 98.5 ? 12 or 24

1000 lbs is long by all sources i have seen, add in everything else.
I am also guessing the trans is no light cookie, then the transfercase that can handle both, then axles that can handle the weight and power.

simple = cheaper 99% of the time. pre 98.5 6bt, if auto 47rh, np 205. bolt together, slap it in

are you working on a fj80?

 

[Project FJ80]

I have a 1998 intercooled 6bt 12v from a stickshift dodge. Which gives more hp and tq than the auto. http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/Facts/96specs.html
215hp and 440tq.
I am a diesel mechanic by trade, so I chose the allison because of its durability, and reliablity. It is also very easy to work on. Like wise with the Cummins. No computer to have to fight with on the engine. I can do all the work myself, at my house or in the field. I can buy an allison and transfercase for about $1500. So, I dont consider that too expensive.
The transmission is about 100lbs heaver than what I have now.
I can relocate the batteries to the rear, and use a few aftermarket parts to trim engine weight, and shoud still be about 50 50 on the gross weight. I weighed 5700 the other day, which is not bad for an 80.
Yes I am working on an fj80. I have 37" krawlers, 4:10 gears, 6"suspension lift, and a 3" body lift.
The gear ratio and tire size should keep me running 65-75 all day long, right around 2200 rpm.
Im not worried at this time about snapping axles, I also dont plan on boosting anything over 250hp and 500 ft lb. or trying to burn all for tires fo show, Thats the kind of that breaks your junk beyond repair. Im fine with the stock values.
My junk with out the 3" body lift. https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=55686&highlight=picts+lift

 

[clarkrw3]

missed you this week at the meet. When did you get the body lift on? Is your junk still on the road or have you ripped into it yet?

add some armer and you'll get that weight up no problem

 

[DzlToy]

did you see this on TDR also??

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142345&page=2

not trying to burst your bubble, but that is going to be a RIDICULOUS amount of work. Go with a built up Dodge tranny from Goerend or Suncoast if you want an auto or get a similarly built NV4500, which is still in production unless you are making crazy power or towing heavy, you will not see the benefits of the Allison. BTW, i think that is the lowest (entry level) Allison made, just bc it says Allison does not mean its a good tranny. There are lots of them that will do what you want with less work and a LOT less $$$.. A stand alone MGMT system for it is around 10 grand...

 

[orangefj45]

size might be the biggest issue here. from what you've mentioned you're able and confident to do the work yourself, and that's a big plus. i've been thinking about doing a 6bt swap on a cruiser as well, but not an 80.
here are my concerns:
1)the 6bt is not only heavy, but also very tall. this necessitates enough lift for the oil pan to clear the front axle assy. hopefully you'll have plenty of clearance since you have a tall lift on the 80 already. but it's definetly worth investigating.
2) are you going to have enough room in the trans tunnel for the allison and the np t-case? the allisons are pretty wide and girthy.
the combination of the engine higth, trans/t-case length and girth might force you to do some tunnel "modifications" in order to prevent unwanted rear driveline angles created by the t-case hanging too low.
3) what rear axle do you plan on running? an offset pumpkin and that much lift might result in driveline vibrations depending on the driveline length and angles of course.

i'm not trying to discourage you from the project at all nor am i claiming that you will run into any/all of tese problems but rather to point out possible problem areas.
good luck, hope to see the buildup progress.

 

[desertboy]

only a few responses but run an nv5600 you have length in an 80, if you want less length there is some fab work but you can take 5th gear off an nv4500 and shorten it about 5 inches.

Now as far as oil pan since money doesn't seem to be an issue you can run dry sump there is i think one guy on tdr who does but several at sled pulls do it, its always an option.

With the extra weight i think custom springs only, they may be stiffer but you have more weight to flex em as well, national has always served me well.

I would upgrade the rear axle to a D80 and pump up a 12V for that 80 now that would be worth the trouble 800hp 1200ft/lbs torque schweet

 

[orangefj45]

another thing worth keeping in mind is the power rating for the allison. they're fine behind a stock engine but anything modified will kill the 1000. one of my best friends had an 05 duramax with the allison. he's got some electronic mods on the engine as well as exhaust upgrades. even with the stock turbo the trans is going into fail safe when he really gets on it. but that's only when he's in the upper settings of his onboard programmer.

the 1000s can be built up accordingly but that get's really expensive. from what i've seen they end up somewhere around $5-6k for a complete HD trans with the HD triple-lock billet torque converter.

 

[desertboy]

very good point orange i have no count it zero experience with the allison but my 4500 with billet shafts handle 813hp and 1200+ torque can't beat that for the money. A 5600 can handle high horsepower as well but there's no billet shafts available, an auto isn't even bad with billet in it and a lot cheaper then the allison i believe.

 

[honk]

Can any of the older stronger Allisons fit under your truck? I think I'd prefer to use a 540 or 640 series for strength, simplicity, and cost used/rebuilt. Some of them must be already bellhousing adapted to Cummins engines.

 

[Eskimo]

the 1000s can be built up accordingly but that get's really expensive. from what i've seen they end up somewhere around $5-6k for a complete HD trans with the HD triple-lock billet torque converter.

So is a 47RH/E if you add the billet stuff in it. My DTT 47RE is getting a billet input next weekend, but I don't have the coin for the billet output yet.. (And it doesn't take 3 discs to make a TC hold, but that's another arguement)

With stock power levels, he'd be fine with a stock 1000, though the CTD makes it's torque-convertor-clutch-killing-torque at a MUCH lower RPM than a d-max. It's the electronics that are a killer for that.

The 47RH still uses a computer for overdrive and T/C lock-up though, and you'll need to add a TPS.

I'd go with a NV4500 personally.

 

[HI^C]

RH does not need a computer, hydr control OD, toggle switch to control lockup DONE.

RH stronger stock outputs then all other RE etc.....

will bolt to a 1st gen np 205 with no issues.

NO costly electronics.

Billets if and only if your pushing 450-500hp+ below that level
your just pissin money away. IMO.


no need for OD earlier 727 to 205, and be done.

 

[Eskimo]

Huh, thought the RH needed the computer for O/D too.. sorry for the mis-information!

 

[desertboy]

i agree with the billet shaft comment above but would push that to 600hp if manual on our sledpull trucks we don't start breaking trans shaft till about 650hp on our manuals, but our autos have had severe problems. Currently were running full billet in our autos and besides the price nothing will hold up like these things. The drag druck is adually with slicks has 950hp roughly 1500ft/lb torque that tranny is custom all and i mean all billet but it lasted half of last year and is still going. Don't go allison, in an attempt to be different from the norm you may end up with something not as good as the norm

 

[orangefj45]

i'd never run a chrysler od trans, the od section itself is just too weak. seen may of them fail, but mostly stock setups due to lubrication problems.:nuke:

 

[Eskimo]

i'd never run a chrysler od trans, the od section itself is just too weak. seen may of them fail, but mostly stock setups due to lubrication problems.:nuke:

Once they are built by someone who knows how to fix 'em, they're fine.. I'm actually damn impressed that a 47RE can hold 1200+lb-ft on a daily driver for 2 years with nothing but routine maintenance.

But yes, stock, they suck.

 

[Project FJ80]

Hello All,
Thanks for the information, Sorry, Ive been out for some time.
After all is said and done... I really do not like the electronics of the allision. and the more I get into it, .. the cheper it sounds to build a dodge tranny.
I am looking to keep her automatic though.. and most likely, I wont go over 400hp & 600ft-lb. I dont think I need more power than that. I do have an allision AT 545, but it comes from a bus. No park, and no place to bolt the transfer case.
I cant access all the TDR pages, since im not a member, but I have contacted a few people, and after the 2K is spent on the allision 1000, it will be about 2-3K more for the transformation to mate them togeather. Im not building a rocket sled, and shes not gonna run on methane. So, I think the 47RH is probably going to be my best bet.
I just got in my 3" body lift, so, for a lack of time,and money, and the fact that I dont want a computer controlled tranny to screw with, I think I will have to go with the 47RH. I just want it to beable to propell me down the road at 65-75mph at 2000-2200 RPM , and hit 85 to pass people when needed.

 

[bjowett]

Just go do it... buy the parts and get started.

 

[gordon5211]

After serching for over a year, I found this.
Turbo Diesel Register - http://turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120126
What do you think?
If this is possible to do on a 986bt and a 03 allison 1000, Then I will have my junk running with diesel next year. Sure the Cummins may weigh 300lbs over the oem I-6, .. But how much weight does adding an arb bumper, winch, and dual batteries add on?? About that much. So, I dont think the extra 300lbs is going to break my junk.
-Ron

How did your diesel conversion come out?
6BT with Allison 1000