Absolute Best Winter Tire For The 80

[SUMOTOY]

I think you kinda defined the relevant issue in your own post. The best winter tire is one that does 90% of what you drive them for in the winter. I don't see a lot of deep snow winter driving in my 80, but I see a lot of shallow snow, slush, packed snow, ice, water and combinations. There, hands down the Blizzack rules. Studs are ok, but they actually tend to lose traction in water and dry pavement, and the increase in winter performance over the blizzack ice tires is nominal at best.

The blizzack comes in the stock 80 size, is as light as the stock 80 LTX tire, and has a much higher tread life than the lighter duty blizzack car tires. I just hit the all season tread on my blizzacks at almost 30k miles. That said, if driving deep snow is the majority of your winter driving, there are better *snow* tires than the blizzack. But for my definition of winter driving, very little compares. The only one that comes close is the Nokia LT winter tires, but they don't come in the stock 80 size. I used BFG MTR's for years on my 4R, and for deep snow, they were awesome. Every other winter situation, I'd rather have the blizzacks.

I used to do a lot of winter tire comparos (15 years worth), then finally just got the blizzacks for the Steamboat Ice Track Event I put on every year, even with my SC 80 (see www.gruppe-q.com ) ... The sidewall could be a bit stiffer on the 80 application IMO, but that's part of what makes it a phenomenal winter tire. I've also put inner tubes inside them on the car apps I run, which gives a lot of reinforcement to the sidewall.

Interesting too, most of the full time instructors at Steamboat Center for Driving Sciences Ice track own 4R's. All run blizzacks, and do the comparos every year looking for others...

HTH and my .02

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged mit Blizzacks

...

I want to know the absolute best winter tire for the 80 series cruisers. Money no object, noise no object, etc. My wife's RAV4 with Bridgestone Blizzak DMZ3's do pretty well but it is still somewhat easy to "induce" a loss of traction on ice and they are not all that terrific in super deep snow, they are however awesome with rain, slush, small snow amounts, etc. These Blizzaks are available for the cruiser as are another Blizzak which is more for light duty and medium duty commercial trucks. BUT, how do dedicated winter tires like these compare to something studded like the WinterMaster tires that tirerack sells? The WinterMaster's seem to have terrificly aggressive tread patterns that look like they would work well in super deep snow and of course the studs will stick to the ice incredibly well. I've never driven with studs and to be totally honest, my REVOS are pretty amazing in all conditions but I'm just wondering whether dedicated winter tires would be better and if so is something studded always going to give the best traction possible? Thanks.

 

[reffug]

ok maybe not swampers

how about some pitbulls?

 

[turbocruiser]

I googled for some reviews on the TrxUs MT's It seems people love em or hate em:

http://www.offroaders.com/reviewbox/showproduct.php?product=34&cpage=1&perpage=15#poststart

Several reports of scary bad road handling including several sidewall blowouts.

Eric, I'm really glad you posted that page, I was shocked at the reviews for on-road driving and to me that really matters. I think that I should prolly rule these truxus' OUT at this point. The thing is, as you know, this last winter was crazy!!! I had no problems whatsoever with my REVOS in any amount accumulation. I picked people up even around rural areas where the snow was about as deep as the headlights with no problems at all after I aired down to 26! So deep snow performance with the REVOS is NO concern. I just felt that some of our slickest street ice last year left me slightly scared.

So, I guess I want the deep snow performance of the REVOS with the ice ability of the blizzaks or even better. For the winter I have NO problem with wearing the loudest, ugliest tire out there BUT I have to be able to hang tight turns on dry pavement too, not year round, just for winter but with the way we go from blizzard to indian summer to blizzard again, I really want a top performer all around. I honestly dont care that much about treadwear; if these tires last 30K of really harsh winter weather driving the way I normally drive, I'll be more than satisfied.

One reason I was leaning towards the blizzaks, other than the fact that the wifey's vehicle does reasonably well with them, is that my local bridgestone store will "snow swap" between my Revos and my Blizzaks for free for life so I can keep my original wheels. That saves some money and it is what we do with the wifey's vehicle when we switch from Revos (on hers) to the Blizzaks (on hers). BUT, I'm sorta getting the feeling that the blizzaks are not recommended for super deep snow. Not that anyone has told me that they are bad in that application but just that they seem to really shine on slick ice perhaps at the expense of the super deep stuff? Again, I'm not sure, but again, I'm looking for that one tire out there that can bust banks and also excel, really excel, on ice. Is there such a thing???

 

[jasonmt]

I googled for some reviews on the TrxUs MT's It seems people love em or hate em:

http://www.offroaders.com/reviewbox/showproduct.php?product=34&cpage=1&perpage=15#poststart

Several reports of scary bad road handling including several sidewall blowouts.

I am not going to say that I hate them but the set I had on my work truck (255/85/16) lasted under 35,000km (22,000miles) or just about 3 months. I know that turbocruiser says he does not care about mileage but when there are other choices that last twice as long for less than twice the price of the Truxus MT I have no intention of buying another set.

 

[cary]

So, I guess I want the deep snow performance of the REVOS with the ice ability of the blizzaks or even better. For the winter I have NO problem with wearing the loudest, ugliest tire out there BUT I have to be able to hang tight turns on dry pavement too, not year round, just for winter but with the way we go from blizzard to indian summer to blizzard again, I really want a top performer all around. I honestly dont care that much about treadwear; if these tires last 30K of really harsh winter weather driving the way I normally drive, I'll be more than satisfied.

I think given these parameters, no brainer, get the snow tires.

 

[EricG]

Eric, I'm really glad you posted that page, I was shocked at the reviews for on-road driving and to me that really matters. I think that I should prolly rule these truxus' OUT at this point. The thing is, as you know, this last winter was crazy!!! I had no problems whatsoever with my REVOS in any amount accumulation. I picked people up even around rural areas where the snow was about as deep as the headlights with no problems at all after I aired down to 26! So deep snow performance with the REVOS is NO concern. I just felt that some of our slickest street ice last year left me slightly scared.

It's really odd the huge variance in those reviews ... I wonder if there wasn't something else going on. Bias ply vs. radial, under inflated for the load range, overloaded? I dunno.

I'm looking for some tires also - my yokohomos will probably go another summer ... but they sucked pretty badly on the ice & hardpack last winter. Did OK in the deep stuff - I was lift limited more then anything. Only got stuck in the driveway once though - that storm big storm just before Christmas left me 2' to 4' across everything!

I'm probably going to go with the Revos - I think Sam's club has em at about $170/each The Blizzaks sound good, but I'd really like to stay with a 33" I've got chains if I really feel the need to head out on the icy stuff.

 

[turbocruiser]

I think given these parameters, no brainer, get the snow tires.

Uhh, Cary, which ones? So far to me "snow tires" are the REVOS but they are not ice tires for sure. My only concern with the Blizzaks is super deep snow ability. Are you recommending the REVOs here or the Blizzaks or something altogether different. What do you run BTW? Thanks.

 

[cary]

I would go for the lattitute X-ice or the nokian happen*****. I don't run snow tires because I am only in it a few times per year and my tires are severed snow rated.


BTW, Consumer reports rated the X-Ice Michelin the overall best in it's most recent snow tire test. In ice performance, the Michelin X-ice was tops along with Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50, and Nokian Hakkapeliitta RSI, the next highest rated were the Gislaved Nordfrost 3 and Nokian Hakkapeliitta 2.

In overall winter performance, the Michelin is rated tops, followed by the others listed above, which are all above average.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Tires are a massive subject to try to cover. There are a lot of misconceptions about them. The reason there are wide variances in those ratings is likely because you have a bunch of people with no training in tire evaluation making individual subjective (vs objective) comments. From evaluating car wax to plasma TVs, this is perfectly normal and an excellent reason to ignore these type of forum-generated decision points. Add to all of this our natural tendancy as humans to want others to perceive our purchase as a good one and you basically have a tremendous volume of worthless input with a few honest evaluations mixed in.

If you want to make a decision on snow tires, look for reviews from credible organizations and ignore the individual opinions. I should say if you want to make a properly informed decision. Anything else is a decision based upon anecdote and innuendo - not the best idea for a product purchase that could one day save your life. Or not save it.

Informationally, the same product characteristics that make a snow tire grip well on the road will make it grip snow off the road. The problem is that offroad you will have hazards like hidden stumps and rocks that can damage a tire constructed for use on the road. The feeling that offroad you must have an MT-like tire with lugs to 'tear through' drifts and such is often put out by folks who've never been in seriously deep snow where flotation is desired. Spin a deep lugged tire on deep snow and it displaces the snow under the tire and drops you on the frame. Spin a tire like a Michelin Latitude and it will not. And when you're done spinning and now need to get moving again after clearing some snow the Latitude is more likely to grip the glossy pathway you've made because the rubber and tread were designed to do that. Tires like this were also designed to provide the most even ground pressure possible on snow to prevent high pressure spots that cause a thin boundary layer under the tread of water. That same design characteristic will serve well on very deep snow by maximizing the chance the snow underfoot (or undertire) will support the truck's weight rather than crush and collapse it.

The old days where snow tires had big lugs are over - replaced by modern rubber compounds, specific tire carcass design and treads designed to hold snow in them for better grip. Like every other product in this world, tires have branched out to specialty products versus a 'one type for all uses' past. I say good thing, too. There are few more rewarding things than flooring the 80 at an icy intersection and feeling the brief wheelspin pulling you away from the vehicle next to you followed by the tires hooking up and the amount of grip they provide exceeding the measly power's ability to spin them. Whooooosh. Of course, don't forget you still have to stop.....heh....

DougM

 

[cary]

The reason there are wide variances in those ratings is likely because you have a bunch of people with no training in tire evaluation making individual subjective (vs objective) comments. Add to all of this our natural tendancy as humans to want others to perceive our purchase as a good one and you basically have a tremendous volume of worthless input with a few honest evaluations mixed in.

If you want to make a decision on snow tires, look for reviews from credible organizations and ignore the individual opinions. I should say if you want to make a properly informed decision. Anything else is a decision based upon anecdote and innuendo - not the best idea for a product purchase that could one day save your life. Or not save it.

DougM

Just to note, one thing that makes the consumer reports reports valuable is they perform tests in a very methodical, repeatable manner, and, unlike most companies, they purchase the products themselves anonymously and don't accept any advertising to avoid bias.

 

[Doc]

The pricing on the X-ice tire is hard to beat as well...

PS, anyone know where I can pick up a set of cheap steel wheels?

 

[83bj60]

Tires are a massive subject to try to cover. There are a lot of misconceptions about them. The reason there are wide variances in those ratings is likely because you have a bunch of people with no training in tire evaluation making individual subjective (vs objective) comments. [...]
DougM

You seem to be very well informed and obviously have tried many brands. However, a couple of things I am still wondering about are:

1) what is the profile and load rating for each tire you tested;
2) what are the road conditions, surface conditions and temperatures these tires were tested under.

In other words: A 'great tire' in passenger type and low profile may be terrible in LT and high profile.

Heck, the rubber compound and the tread may be widely different.

My question to you and other experts is thus:

For someone having mostly middle amounts of snow fall (6 to 12 inches) under fairly cold temperatures (-10C) with lots of salt used hence slush created and hardpack snow/ice under cold to very cold consitions (-10C to -20C) conditons on very rough roads (hard but very bumpy and pot-holy) but with 85% of dry pavement driving on a stock 80, what are the choices in tall 16 inch, preferably 32" or higher?

If you answer, 'none', you're probably at the point where I am now

BTW I loved the Hakkas SUVs on the old 60, but they don't come in the size I want, need to get the LT version (which has a harder rubber compound)

I'll be anxiously waiting your response - at this point I have to decide whether I'll buy the 255/85/16 Dunlop Radial Rover RVXTs that are on special until 9PM, or whether these are absolute crap for my conditions. I can get them for $137 installed at Canadian Tire until tonight (well, not exactly, it's a special order - what do you expect, having to special order something advertized on special from a store called 'Canadian Tire', and the second largest in Canada at that!!! ).

 

[Doc]

at this point I have to decide whether I'll buy the 255/85/16 Dunlop Radial Rover RVXTs that are on special until 9PM, or whether these are absolute crap for my conditions.

I don't see that tire being good for snow at all. The Michelin's come in a (almost) 32" size. I'm leaning towards that one.

 

[83bj60]

Hmmm they are one sale now presumably for the winter tire sale season! But indeed I 've read reviews, and they seem less than glowing... (they seem to wear fast), but I figure on the Landcruiser, presumably lighter than a full size pickup, that should not be an issue...

Keep your comments coming!

 

[cary]

In other words: A 'great tire' in passenger type and low profile may be terrible in LT and high profile.

what are the choices in tall 16 inch, preferably 32" or higher?

If you answer, 'none', you're probably at the point where I am now

BTW I loved the Hakkas SUVs on the old 60, but they don't come in the size I want, need to get the LT version (which has a harder rubber compound)

Doug is refering to tires he has mounted on the 80. The Michelin Lattitude icex comes in a 265/75/16 which is a 32" tires, Nokia also makes tires in this size.

Hmmm they are one sale now presumably for the winter tire sale season! But indeed I 've read reviews, and they seem less than glowing... (they seem to wear fast), but I figure on the Landcruiser, presumably lighter than a full size pickup, that should not be an issue...

Keep your comments coming!

It's called compromise. To get superior performance for ice and snow you have to give up something. That will be treadwear (softer compounding) in this case. Everything is a tradeoff in tires. Believe me, if you could make one tire that worked great from -20f-120f, in the snow, dry, rain, mud, and on the road, we would be buying it.

 

[83bj60]

if you could make one tire that worked great from -20f-120f, in the snow, dry, rain, mud, and on the road, we would be buying it

LOL... ain't that the truth! But I'm trying to get the beet compromise for my road consditions and after many hours of research I'm more confused than ever!!!

But seriously, I'd rather have a skinnier and taller tire than the present trend which goes towars (IMO excessively) wide...
Like a 255/85R16 in passenger type/softness with tons of sipes and extra deep tread... But no one seems to making such a tire!

So I guess I have no choice but to get a 265/75R16 then? To be honest, I find 255 already too wide! Weren't these trucks originally designed for 215 and 225 tire widths? Are the new 265s comparable? I'd think they'd be more fuel hungry and would have a lesser grip on snow and ice...

 

[jasonmt]

BTW I loved the Hakkas SUVs on the old 60, but they don't come in the size I want, need to get the LT version (which has a harder rubber compound)

I'll be anxiously waiting your response - at this point I have to decide whether I'll buy the 255/85/16 Dunlop Radial Rover RVXTs that are on special until 9PM, or whether these are absolute crap for my conditions. I can get them for $137 installed at Canadian Tire until tonight (well, not exactly, it's a special order - what do you expect, having to special order something advertized on special from a store called 'Canadian Tire', and the second largest in Canada at that!!! ).

So I guess I have no choice but to get a 265/75R16 then? To be honest, I find 255 already too wide! Weren't these trucks originally designed for 215 and 225 tire widths? Are the new 265s comparable? I'd think they'd be more fuel hungry and would have a lesser grip on snow and ice...

The 255/85/16 in a tyre like you describe may be tough but lets not forget the 235/85/16 size which brings you too many options to describe.

I would run away from the Dunlop Radial Rover RVXT though.

 

[cary]

LOL... ain't that the truth! But I'm trying to get the beet compromise for my road consditions and after many hours of research I'm more confused than ever!!!

But seriously, I'd rather have a skinnier and taller tire than the present trend which goes towars (IMO excessively) wide...
Like a 255/85R16 in passenger type/softness with tons of sipes and extra deep tread... But no one seems to making such a tire!

So I guess I have no choice but to get a 265/75R16 then? To be honest, I find 255 already too wide! Weren't these trucks originally designed for 215 and 225 tire widths? Are the new 265s comparable? I'd think they'd be more fuel hungry and would have a lesser grip on snow and ice...

These trucks came with a 275/70 tire from the factory. You may want to look at the Goodyear Silient Armor AT which caries a severe snow rating. Another good compromise may be the Nokian Vatiiva, which is a mild A/T tire with a tremendous amount of siping and should perform well in snow an ice, but not as well as a dedicated tire.


http://www.nokiantires.com/en/tire_vatiiva.aspx?season=summer

 

[landtank]

I remember one of those tire test showed that different sizes of the same tire often performed differently. But that was quite a while ago so maybe that doesn't play into things as much.

 

[EricG]

Tires are a massive subject to try to cover. There are a lot of misconceptions about them. The reason there are wide variances in those ratings is likely because you have a bunch of people with no training in tire evaluation making individual subjective (vs objective) comments. From evaluating car wax to plasma TVs, this is perfectly normal and an excellent reason to ignore these type of forum-generated decision points. Add to all of this our natural tendancy as humans to want others to perceive our purchase as a good one and you basically have a tremendous volume of worthless input with a few honest evaluations mixed in.

<snip>

DougM

I agree - I take general consumer rating on the net with a huge grain of salt - even on mud But there were several posts about sidewall blowouts at freeway speed - that doesn't sound very subjective to me!