Absolute Best Winter Tire For The 80 (2 Viewers)

[turbocruiser]

Tires are a massive subject to try to cover. There are a lot of misconceptions about them. The reason there are wide variances in those ratings is likely because you have a bunch of people with no training in tire evaluation making individual subjective (vs objective) comments. From evaluating car wax to plasma TVs, this is perfectly normal and an excellent reason to ignore these type of forum-generated decision points. Add to all of this our natural tendancy as humans to want others to perceive our purchase as a good one and you basically have a tremendous volume of worthless input with a few honest evaluations mixed in.

If you want to make a decision on snow tires, look for reviews from credible organizations and ignore the individual opinions. I should say if you want to make a properly informed decision. Anything else is a decision based upon anecdote and innuendo - not the best idea for a product purchase that could one day save your life. Or not save it.

Informationally, the same product characteristics that make a snow tire grip well on the road will make it grip snow off the road. The problem is that offroad you will have hazards like hidden stumps and rocks that can damage a tire constructed for use on the road. The feeling that offroad you must have an MT-like tire with lugs to 'tear through' drifts and such is often put out by folks who've never been in seriously deep snow where flotation is desired. Spin a deep lugged tire on deep snow and it displaces the snow under the tire and drops you on the frame. Spin a tire like a Michelin Latitude and it will not. And when you're done spinning and now need to get moving again after clearing some snow the Latitude is more likely to grip the glossy pathway you've made because the rubber and tread were designed to do that. Tires like this were also designed to provide the most even ground pressure possible on snow to prevent high pressure spots that cause a thin boundary layer under the tread of water. That same design characteristic will serve well on very deep snow by maximizing the chance the snow underfoot (or undertire) will support the truck's weight rather than crush and collapse it.

The old days where snow tires had big lugs are over - replaced by modern rubber compounds, specific tire carcass design and treads designed to hold snow in them for better grip. Like every other product in this world, tires have branched out to specialty products versus a 'one type for all uses' past. I say good thing, too. There are few more rewarding things than flooring the 80 at an icy intersection and feeling the brief wheelspin pulling you away from the vehicle next to you followed by the tires hooking up and the amount of grip they provide exceeding the measly power's ability to spin them. Whooooosh. Of course, don't forget you still have to stop.....heh....

DougM

Doug, I agree, and, I disagree ... lemme explain.

1. My first research step was reading all the advertisements and spec sheets and such from all the actual manufacturers of tires. Of course they always accentuate the positive and eliminate the negative but if you factor that in and pay attention to the technologies that they developed you get a good understanding at least about what those manufacturers think is important.

2. My second research step was reading consumers reports which I have read for years and years although I always think that they look at things as practically as possible and that they try to "mass market" their reviews to the "mass market". That is totally understandable but in the process they are not going to give me much good info on super deep snow performance or offroad performance, etc. It is sort of an average review for average usage.

3. My third research step was reading tirerack but as Nay and others so astutely pointed out, taking a tire on an ice rink right behind a Zamboni that just made a mirror smooth surface is VERY different from driving on a frozen rutted road right at the transition from melting temps in daylight to freezing temps at dusk. That is actually right when the Revos seem to have the most problems.

4. My fourth research step was consulting the wisdom of MUD, and Doug, I might say I think that you are ultimately underestimating our many members here. I was admittedly a little surprised with MacGyver's recommendation of the aged, hard, rotted tires but I think that his point was simply that the inherent capability of hte 80 is impressive. Overall though I have carefully considered everything that this thread has produced in terms of our members' recommendations and overall I think that our many members will give better advice all around than the other forums from which i read so far.

5. Reviews will vary widely of course but I disagree that one should disregard them entirely; each and every source listed above already has some bias either through their allegiances & their expectations (motivated) or through their experiences (objective). Regardless, the many mentions of sidewall blowouts from people who you would say "want to like their specific tires" is disconcerting to say the least; I can guaran-dam-tee-you that regardless of how much they liked their tires when they got them, they don't like em much now. Also several specific reviewers from the page that Eric linked for us seemed pretty savvy. Of course a lot of the reviews are comparative only between two tire types - the ones someone used to have, and the ones someone has now. If someone who had HT tires on their off road truck switched to anything AT, anything MT, etc., they are gonna give great reviews for off road performance. And, of course, even all my, or all your, reviews are only between a few specific styles that we have tried on the 80.

So what the heck's my point??? Heck I dunno. Just that I'm trying to find the perfect tire for my rig and for my situation by gleaning from great many sources. Incidentally, I called my local Bridgestone stores (three of them) and they all recommended just running my Revos for what I want. According to them, there really isn't anything my same size available anyway and if I get something much smaller than say 275/75/16 my super cool chains aren't gonna fit either so that safety net is removed altogether. I'm actually considering something that I never would have considered before - buying brand new set of Revos all around, putting them on for the winter only which for me means taking them off right after Mother's Day and then putting my original set of Revos on till they are really worn with non winter weather driving, then retire those, and so on. My bridgestone dealer will do the "snow swaps" as they call them for free for life so I can still keep the same wheels AND also the same tires for all seasons. Even though bridgestone does not do the added siping with the siping machine, they might even allow me to get the new Revos siped at a siping shop locally and THEN put them on with the snow swap dealy do. That might be the ticket after all this research. The way I look at is I have to favor deep snow performance for ice performance; if I'm starting to slip with the current conditions I can simply slow down, but if I cannot make any forward progress I'm sorta SOL. The Revos have never let me down in deep snow, even with really ridiculous amounts of it. Anyways, decisions, decisions but I really appreciate all the help from everyone, please keep it coming as we all learn more!

 

[83bj60]

I remember one of those tire test showed that different sizes of the same tire often performed differently. But that was quite a while ago so maybe that doesn't play into things as much.

That's EXACTLY my point. Someone may say for example that the Hakka 215/75R15 has tremendous grip, but if you use the LT235/75R15 version you may find the rubber much too hard (although it will probably wear longer) and you will notice there is much less siping as well. Why? because the tire is designed to be heavily loaded. Hence using a tire that is designed ot be heavily loaded on to a vehicle which is not will have the net result of being too hard and not grippy enough...

That's the whole problem with reviews! We don't know in what temperature conditions the tire was driven on, the actual load and the exact tire 'formula' (P or LTm wide or narrow)... Totally useless!

 

[MARLIN375]

I'm actually considering something that I never would have considered before - buying brand new set of Revos all around, putting them on for the winter only which for me means taking them off right after Mother's Day and then putting my original set of Revos on till they are really worn with non winter weather driving, then retire those, and so on

So I'll chime back in.

If you are going to run two sets, and dedicate 1 for winter. Do yourself a favor and try studs on a siped snowy.
They are not that exspensive, $20 a tire I think.
You can pull them out with a pair of pliers if you don't like em.
I agree with Doug about how these rigs sink quickly to the frame with deep lugs. If you can "float" without spinning you will go farther (and get horribly stuck in front of everyone)

 

[83bj60]

The pricing on the X-ice tire is hard to beat as well..

CHEAP?! Not in Canada!!!

265/75R16:
$196.99 at Canadian Tire and that's ON SPECIAL!!!
$103.00 at Tirerack PLUS GIFT...

GAAAWWW!!!!!!!!!!!

Another trip to the US is called for yet again... I can't believe how grossly gouged we are in this country!!!

 

[SUMOTOY]

...

One reason I was leaning towards the blizzaks, other than the fact that the wifey's vehicle does reasonably well with them, is that my local bridgestone store will "snow swap" between my Revos and my Blizzaks for free for life so I can keep my original wheels. That saves some money and it is what we do with the wifey's vehicle when we switch from Revos (on hers) to the Blizzaks (on hers). BUT, I'm sorta getting the feeling that the blizzaks are not recommended for super deep snow. Not that anyone has told me that they are bad in that application but just that they seem to really shine on slick ice perhaps at the expense of the super deep stuff? Again, I'm not sure, but again, I'm looking for that one tire out there that can bust banks and also excel, really excel, on ice. Is there such a thing???

TC
Blizzacks are fine in deep snow on an 80. I buried my 80 into snowbanks to extract a couple of quattros two years ago with them, without issue (CDL only). Is there 'better' for *just* deep snow? I suppose so. But as soon as you come back out of deep snow, Blizzacks rule again. FYI, the last couple years at Steamboat (all wheel drive *only* events), we had both the Hoka RSi's and the Michilen ice-x tires present. Whatever the 'other' Michelin tests show, on ice, the Rsi's were closest to the Blizzacks, but even a base 10 year old design WS-50 Blizzack held just fine agains the newest Rsi's. The Michelin's were very loud on dry pavement, and just didn't fair as well in Ice, but did as well as the others with some snow present.

If I was swapping Revo's, I'd get the Blizzacks for winter. You'll high center the truck before you'll get stuck with them IME. They are a little bit floaty on the tread, but they don't let go of the 80, roll under, or otherwise exibit the goofy behavior found on the car version of the Blizzacks.

The biggest thing to keep in mind with tire purchases, is how broad a spectrum the winter tires can accomodate. IMO, the Blizzacks on the 80 in the stock tires size is tough to beat for winter driving, whatever your definition.

My .02

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged
Eventmaster Gruppe-q Steamboat Ice Event 2008
www.gruppe-q.com

 

[turbocruiser]

TC
Blizzacks are fine in deep snow on an 80. I buried my 80 into snowbanks to extract a couple of quattros two years ago with them, without issue (CDL only). Is there 'better' for *just* deep snow? I suppose so. But as soon as you come back out of deep snow, Blizzacks rule again. FYI, the last couple years at Steamboat (all wheel drive *only* events), we had both the Hoka RSi's and the Michilen ice-x tires present. Whatever the 'other' Michelin tests show, on ice, the Rsi's were closest to the Blizzacks, but even a base 10 year old design WS-50 Blizzack held just fine agains the newest Rsi's. The Michelin's were very loud on dry pavement, and just didn't fair as well in Ice, but did as well as the others with some snow present.

If I was swapping Revo's, I'd get the Blizzacks for winter. You'll high center the truck before you'll get stuck with them IME. They are a little bit floaty on the tread, but they don't let go of the 80, roll under, or otherwise exibit the goofy behavior found on the car version of the Blizzacks.

The biggest thing to keep in mind with tire purchases, is how broad a spectrum the winter tires can accomodate. IMO, the Blizzacks on the 80 in the stock tires size is tough to beat for winter driving, whatever your definition.

My .02

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged
Eventmaster Gruppe-q Steamboat Ice Event 2008
www.gruppe-q.com

Okay, thanks for this Scott, it is indeed really helpful to hear that you can practically high-center the truck before the blizzaks crap out on snow! Are you referring to the DMZ3's or the 965's ? So far I think that the largest I can get is 265/ 70/ 16 is that correct? Thanks again for all this advice fellas, I appreciate it.

 

[SUMOTOY]

I got the DMZ3's 275/70 16 on the stock rims from tire crack... They are one of the lightest tires at 43lbs too, and IIRC, the support weight rating is 1900#/tire. I put them on 2 years ago this december, 30k on them, and I went out of the 'ice' tread only 7k or so ago. Much better wear than any Blizzack car tire I've owned!

HTH

Scott J

Okay, thanks for this Scott, it is indeed really helpful to hear that you can practically high-center the truck before the blizzaks crap out on snow! Are you referring to the DMZ3's or the 965's ? So far I think that the largest I can get is 265/ 70/ 16 is that correct? Thanks again for all this advice fellas, I appreciate it.

 

[turbocruiser]

I got the DMZ3's 275/70 16 on the stock rims from tire crack... They are one of the lightest tires at 43lbs too, and IIRC, the support weight rating is 1900#/tire. I put them on 2 years ago this december, 30k on them, and I went out of the 'ice' tread only 7k or so ago. Much better wear than any Blizzack car tire I've owned!

HTH

Scott J

Thanks again about all this Scott. I confirmed that the largest size I can come up with with DMZ3's is your 275/70 16 so, that begs many more questions in the sense that my tire chains, RUD Grip 4x4's, won't work with that size tire. Soooo, now the thing is trying to figure out the advantage of Blizzaks sans chains whenever I would wanna wear them vs. Revos with chains whenever I want. On the one hand, option number two is the least expensive and the most easy buuuut I want the absolute most aggressive and absolute most capable combination of tire and vehicle. Any thoughts on this one? Thanks again all.

 

[SUMOTOY]

Shaun
Again, it goes back to what you are doing with it 'most of the time' defining winter driving. I run into this all the time with track quattro street cars. If 10% of your driving is on track (FJ80= off road), then don't put on a tire for the 10%, put the tire on for the 90%. Then, if you 'must' have the 10%, buy another set of wheels.

The problem really is that the ultimate tire doesn't exist anymore, it's just how broad a spectrum you can cover with any given tire. In the context of winter driving, the Blizzack has one of the broadest spectrums IMO. I run them in the summer, pulled a 5klb camper, and regularly haul the tandem axle car trailer with em. My thinking was I'd trash em, and buy another set for my next Steamboat Event. 2 years later, there is still plenty of tread left on them to get me thru another winter (albeit not another Ice track event).

They are quiet, ride well, are great in the wet, and stick like glue to dry pavement. Can they handle chains? Wrong tire, get the 965's for that, it's a true truck tire in the Blizzack line. The problem with it, is the sizing in the 16 is limited to one I believe...

Shaun, it's a slippery slope... I have 8 or so sets of dedicated wheel/snows for my quattro forays, including track only Blizzacks, and probably double that in street/track combos. I chose not to go that crazy with my 80, I have 2 sets of stock wheels, 1 with the stock Spec'd LTX, the other with Blizzacks. I understand what you are trying to do, I just don't believe 1 tire will do that for you. Then, you either get more wheels and tires, or just take the 90% rule. I certainly know which route costs less

OTOH, if the Revo's do 90% of what you do in the winter, leave them on. Don't buy the Blizzacks for 10% of your winter driving. Buy the Blizzacks 'as' your winter tire.

HTH and my .02

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged mit DMZ3's

Thanks again about all this Scott. I confirmed that the largest size I can come up with with DMZ3's is your 275/70 16 so, that begs many more questions in the sense that my tire chains, RUD Grip 4x4's, won't work with that size tire. Soooo, now the thing is trying to figure out the advantage of Blizzaks sans chains whenever I would wanna wear them vs. Revos with chains whenever I want. On the one hand, option number two is the least expensive and the most easy buuuut I want the absolute most aggressive and absolute most capable combination of tire and vehicle. Any thoughts on this one? Thanks again all.

 

[turbocruiser]

Shaun
Again, it goes back to what you are doing with it 'most of the time' defining winter driving. I run into this all the time with track quattro street cars. If 10% of your driving is on track (FJ80= off road), then don't put on a tire for the 10%, put the tire on for the 90%. Then, if you 'must' have the 10%, buy another set of wheels.

The problem really is that the ultimate tire doesn't exist anymore, it's just how broad a spectrum you can cover with any given tire. In the context of winter driving, the Blizzack has one of the broadest spectrums IMO. I run them in the summer, pulled a 5klb camper, and regularly haul the tandem axle car trailer with em. My thinking was I'd trash em, and buy another set for my next Steamboat Event. 2 years later, there is still plenty of tread left on them to get me thru another winter (albeit not another Ice track event).

They are quiet, ride well, are great in the wet, and stick like glue to dry pavement. Can they handle chains? Wrong tire, get the 965's for that, it's a true truck tire in the Blizzack line. The problem with it, is the sizing in the 16 is limited to one I believe...

Shaun, it's a slippery slope... I have 8 or so sets of dedicated wheel/snows for my quattro forays, including track only Blizzacks, and probably double that in street/track combos. I chose not to go that crazy with my 80, I have 2 sets of stock wheels, 1 with the stock Spec'd LTX, the other with Blizzacks. I understand what you are trying to do, I just don't believe 1 tire will do that for you. Then, you either get more wheels and tires, or just take the 90% rule. I certainly know which route costs less

OTOH, if the Revo's do 90% of what you do in the winter, leave them on. Don't buy the Blizzacks for 10% of your winter driving. Buy the Blizzacks 'as' your winter tire.

HTH and my .02

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged mit DMZ3's

That perfectly defines my dilemma. The problem is in my parts we typically get snows that last less than two to three days max, and in that time melts to some extent during the day, starts freezing during dusk, and just gets harder and harder and harder throughout the night until it all evaporates away two to three days later. Then we'll get a good blast of 70 degree days for a few days. Crazy.

The Revos totally kick a** on everything except slick sheet ice. As soon as there is some ruttage and roughage within the frozen stuff itself the Revos get relatively good bite. But, either at the transition from liquid to solid when the "water" freezes really smooth, or just whenever rain or snow freezes from contact with the ground, the Revos are alittle unsettling, at least compared to the wifey's Blizzaks.

So my dilemma is drastically worse than just figuring out the 80/20 or 90/10 rule. On the one hand the 100% solution is simply "chaining up" my Revos 100% of the time ... that would get me through anything but would also get me really ridiculous looks from everyone from myself to everyone else. On the other hand the Blizzaks would probably work for the 90% but the 10% where I would need the chains (if I needed the chains) would basically become the 100% that I actually get "stuck" and for me that isn't only irresponsible but also possibly anywhere from dangerous to deadly! Getting stuck is simply not an attractive option and therefore chaining up ability is absolutely required unless the Blizzaks are really awesome in the super deep stuff, so then the 10% dictates the 100%. Now, if you are saying through your experience with your tires on your 80 that it would require a high center circumstance to exceed the Blizzaks' ability to plow through, that is another story altogether cause realistically the Revos will require the chains prior to that point. It seems somewhat optimistic in my experience but there is a drastic difference between a RAV4 and a LandCruiser so my DMZ3 experiences with the wifey's RAV4 won't necessarily mirror mine in the TurboCruiser!!! If the Blizzaks will truly plow through until the rig is high-centered than at that point the chains wont help much so I'm back to the 100% solution then. Arrghh. Any more thoughts? As agonizing as it is, this is helping so thanks again all!!!

 

[BROKEROB1]

x5 on the Trxus MT's...Last year, I purchased the Trxux MT's. I purchased them as a 2nd tire to the Revo's to run for offroad only, and as per Nay's recommendation and thoughts via PM, I swapped them on last January, before we headed to our Cabin. The Revo's had always performed pretty well in the snow, but I was looking for a bit more in the way of performance. So I swapped the Revos out and we headed out. We have an incline leading up to our cabin that is about 100 yards and is so steep, that you dread walking up! In the past, I have never made it up our hill with more than a few inches of snow. For this storm, we had several hours of freezing rain with about 15 inches of snow. I was able to make it up our hill, for the first time! The truck would just inch up the hill... some times slow to an almost stop, then the tires would dig, grab, and go.
I am in the NE, so usually we have a couple of big snows per winter. I did some winter wheeling last year and I really have been impressed with the Trxus in the snow. I will swap them again this January for winter. They are very predictable in deep fresh snow, good in the slush/water, and surprising predictable on icy conditions. Also note that the tires' lugs are quite soft. So there you go... another worthless post about the Revos and the Trxus'

 

[83bj60]

This has got to be the most enlightened tire discussion I have read. And it comes all from Mudders. Kudos guys, you're a smart bunch

Now my suggestion: Everyone says the Blizzaks are soft, don't last, but grip very well on ice.

So... If I used the LT 235/85R16 version, I would presumably get a much stiffer tire (load range E) AND a tire able to withstand heavy loads, so presumably harder rubber as well.

In a sense, I would get a reasonably stiff Blizzak AND one with a tread compound that would not wear as much YET a narrow tire that should still be able to grip well from its narrowness PLUS the bonus of fuel economy and lesser roling reistance from its its tall and narrow profile.

Doesn't THAT sound like the ideal tire winter for an 80 series that does a lot highway driving with some snow and some slush, a lot of hardened, packed and icy snow and the occasional black ice? Has anyone tried that type and size of Blizzack on their rig?

 

[SUMOTOY]

This has got to be the most enlightened tire discussion I have read. And it comes all from Mudders. Kudos guys, you're a smart bunch

Now my suggestion: Everyone says the Blizzaks are soft, don't last, but grip very well on ice.

So... If I used the LT 235/85R16 version, I would presumably get a much stiffer tire (load range E) AND a tire able to withstand heavy loads, so presumably harder rubber as well.

In a sense, I would get a reasonably stiff Blizzak AND one with a tread compound that would not wear as much YET a narrow tire that should still be able to grip well from its narrowness PLUS the bonus of fuel economy and lesser roling reistance from its its tall and narrow profile.

Doesn't THAT sound like the ideal tire winter for an 80 series that does a lot highway driving with some snow and some slush, a lot of hardened, packed and icy snow and the occasional black ice? Has anyone tried that type and size of Blizzack on their rig?

The stock size Blizzack will wear phenomenally, I'm at 30k on mine, and it's a great all season tire until I get my next set soon. IME, fuel economy bonus comes from matching the stock tire weight and size more than the rolling resistance. Don't kid youself either, a taller blizzack will roll over more than a shorter one, I found this from just going to a 195/65 to a 205/60 on a WS-50 years ago.

TC, there is a theoretical 100%, not a practical one? The highest danger of you crashing, is the ice and the black ice, period. That's the Blizzack forte, and I claim better than chains, studs or walnut shells. Because the real world dictates that you can have all the conditions of winter in 1 day. If I wanted my 100% in winter road driving, I'd spend the money on lockers with my Blizzacks, and you have that already.

I've always advocated that deadly isn't the elements outside the truck, it's the element driving it. Proper training includes low cf driving training. I won't keyboard the benefits of Blizzacks for winter driving, I encourage anyone to put what they think is best on the closed ice track at Steamboat. There's a reason Blizzack sponsored that venue for over 15 years.

my .o2

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged DMZ3
Eventmaster Steamboat 2008
www.gruppe-q.com

 

[83bj60]

The stock size Blizzack will wear phenomenally, I'm at 30k on mine, and it's a great all season tire until I get my next set soon. IME, fuel economy bonus comes from matching the stock tire weight and size more than the rolling resistance. Don't kid youself either, a taller blizzack will roll over more than a shorter one, I found this from just going to a 195/65 to a 205/60 on a WS-50 years ago.

OK, I didn't quite understand that. Are you saying that the stock (I presume 265/75R16) version of that tire has less rolling resistance and promottes better fuel econmy than the slightly taller but much narrower LT (235/85R16) version?

In other words, that the stiffer and narrower tire has greater rolling reistance?

 

[Chevinater77]

got to try my goodyear triple tred forterra's in the snow and they worked like a charm! ;p However, they dont like the mud! scored tens by goodyear standards in snow, ice and dry pavement... 5 in mud! not that i like that brown crap but deer hunting with the cruiser forces to drive in it!

 

[KliersLC]

OK, I didn't quite understand that. Are you saying that the stock (I presume 265/75R16) version of that tire has less rolling resistance and promottes better fuel econmy than the slightly taller but much narrower LT (235/85R16) version?

In other words, that the stiffer and narrower tire has greater rolling reistance?

I think he is saying that it will roll over onto the sidewall more.....

I think....

 

[turbocruiser]

The highest danger of you crashing, is the ice and the black ice, period. That's the Blizzack forte, and I claim better than chains, studs or walnut shells. Because the real world dictates that you can have all the conditions of winter in 1 day. If I wanted my 100% in winter road driving, I'd spend the money on lockers with my Blizzacks, and you have that already.


Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged DMZ3
Eventmaster Steamboat 2008
www.gruppe-q.com

Scott, thanks again, I'm not arguing with any of your observations but I want to focus on one single part of that post where you were claiming that the Blizzaks are better than chains. That seems really super optimistic to me. I mean better than chains on ice? My experience with the wifey's Blizzaks on an all wheel drive vehicle is that they are better than the Revos on ice but no where near as good as chains on ice. Are you really saying that the Blizzaks are better than chains on ice or am I reading you wrong? This is incredibly important for me to get right and on the one hand I'm prepared to pull the trigger on the Blizzaks or Nokian Hakkapellita SUV Studded or even the SUV Non-Studded (they come in both configurations apparently) or whatever will work best ... but ... on the other hand I'm hearing that the same Blizzaks I have had some extensive experience in are gonna plow me through the snow till I'm high centered and get better grip on ice than my Revos & RUDs combination. Granted a set of DMZ3's on a RAV are gonna perform very differently than that tire on a 80 series but again is this overly optimistic or can I count on the type of performance you are describing, again, it is too important to get wrong in my case so please factor that in. But if this is an accurate assessment I think that I'm gettin Blizzaks by week's end. Again, not arguing; just sort of suspiciously intrigued! Thanks again everyone!

 

[jasonmt]

TC, there is a theoretical 100%, not a practical one? The highest danger of you crashing, is the ice and the black ice, period. That's the Blizzack forte, and I claim better than chains, studs or walnut shells. Because the real world dictates that you can have all the conditions of winter in 1 day. If I wanted my 100% in winter road driving, I'd spend the money on lockers with my Blizzacks, and you have that already.

Scott, thanks again, I'm not arguing with any of your observations but I want to focus on one single part of that post where you were claiming that the Blizzaks are better than chains. That seems really super optimistic to me.

Are you really saying that the Blizzaks are better than chains on ice or am I reading you wrong? This is incredibly important for me to get right and on the one hand I'm prepared to pull the trigger on the Blizzaks or Nokian Hakkapellita SUV Studded or even the SUV Non-Studded (they come in both configurations apparently) or whatever will work best ... but ... on the other hand I'm hearing that the same Blizzaks I have had some extensive experience in are gonna plow me through the snow till I'm high centered and get better grip on ice than my Revos & RUDs combination. Granted a set of DMZ3's on a RAV are gonna perform very differently than that tire on a 80 series but again is this overly optimistic or can I count on the type of performance you are describing, again, it is too important to get wrong in my case so please factor that in. But if this is an accurate assessment I think that I'm gettin Blizzaks by week's end. Again, not arguing; just sort of suspiciously intrigued! Thanks again everyone!

Having had a set of Blizzaks (245-75-16 DMZ3) and a set of the studded Haks (235-85-16 LT's) on the same vehicle during the same winter I think "super optimistic" is more along the lines of wildly optimistic, there is a reason that I got rid of the Blizzaks with under 5k on them for the Hak's. Claiming that the Blizzak's are better on ice than chains or a new style studded winter tyre sounds like gross aggrandizement to me.

 

[83bj60]

turbo, I am at the same point in my search as you are in yours. Thank YOU for bringing this thread to life and for your very pertinent questions! I'm glad not to be the only one with the same concern as you.

I've had Nokians studded Hakkas (a great tire for sure that works well in soft and packed snow) and I remember that we used to have some great tires on one of my wife's cars and it has always suprised me that no matter what brand, car tires always seem to be a tad grippier than tires for my Landcruiser. Until they made 'SUV tires', that is... A combination of tread and rubber compound that is much better suited to our vehicles which are in fact closer to being large cars that run empty most of the time (IE we don't carry 1000s of pounds of stuff in the back all the time like a pickup in commercial use would)

So... either get a standard size SUV type tire that is very much like a passenger car tire or, presumably, if my logic is correct get a thinner and tougher but also harder 235/85R16 LT tire.

I wish someone here made this experiment and had tried both types to write about, but it seems no one did. And most reviews you see on the net are completely useless as they lack data about driving conditions, vehicle type, vehicle loading and of course tire dimensions.

 

[83bj60]

Having had a set of Blizzaks (245-75-16 DMZ3) and a set of the studded Haks (235-85-16 LT's) on the same vehicle during the same winter I think "super optimistic" is more along the lines of wildly optimistic, there is a reason that I got rid of the Blizzaks with under 5k on them for the Hak's. Claiming that the Blizzak's are better on ice than chains or a new style studded winter tyre sounds like gross aggrandizement to me.

jason, thanks for chiming in. The comparison you make from experience between these two tires is pretty much what I was hoping for!

BUT.... can you make a side by side somparison under the same driving conditions? By that I mean, OK, you drove only 5k on the blizzaks... But on what surface and at what temperature? What are the conditions where one shines over the other and vice-versa?