A real steering upgrade: Y-link & 1-ton TREs (1 Viewer)

[Hobies]

i love how much bigger the gm tre is but if upgrading steering, why not do heims instead of tre? any reason?

and why is the tie rod behind the axle a bad thing?

and if your tie rod does roll, just put both tres at opposite direction then tighten them down. it wont be able to roll either way and no more "dead spot".

 

[jcardona1]

i love how much bigger the gm tre is but if upgrading steering, why not do heims instead of tre? any reason?

and why is the tie rod behind the axle a bad thing?

and if your tie rod does roll, just put both tres at opposite direction then tighten them down. it wont be able to roll either way and no more "dead spot".

Well, this isn't strictly a trail rig. It's not daily driver, but it does see road use. I stuck with TREs because it's a cheap, proven design that works well on road-driven cars. They're greasable, and easy to find replacements at most auto stores.

I don't like the tie rod behind the axle because contacts the radius arms too much. You can't even fix caster without having to worry about the tie rod hitting the arms. Also, behind the axle doesn't protect it from rocks like most think. Just ask all the folks that have bent their factory tie rod

Lastly, tie rod roll is a characteristic of Y-link steering setups. TREs are always opposite threads so that's not the problem. The issue is because the draglink is attached to the tie rod. If the draglink went directly to the knuckle you wouldn't have this issue. But to do that you'd need at least 1 Slee high-steer arm for the passenger side.

 

[Hobies]

I don't like the tie rod behind the axle because contacts the radius arms too much. You can't even fix caster without having to worry about the tie rod hitting the arms.

Lastly, tie rod roll is a characteristic of Y-link steering setups. TREs are always opposite threads so that's not the problem. The issue is because the draglink is attached to the tie rod. If the draglink went directly to the knuckle you wouldn't have this issue. But to do that you'd need at least 1 Slee high-steer arm for the passenger side.

good to know. when does the tie rod hit the arms? i am guess when flexed out and at full lock?


i know what tie rod roll is, yes i know the threads of tre are opposite threads, lol. i will try to explain again, if you dont want the tre to roll, twist one tre foward and one back wards and then tighten tighten them down, it impossible for it to roll after you do that.

 

[jcardona1]

good to know. when does the tie rod hit the arms? i am guess when flexed out and at full lock?


i know what tie rod roll is, yes i know the threads of tre are opposite threads, lol. i will try to explain again, if you dont want the tre to roll, twist one tre foward and one back wards and then tighten tighten them down, it impossible for it to roll after you do that.

If you have a tall lift and you're trying to force caster back into spec the tie rod will hit the arms even while sitting flat on the ground. Some folks even have to grind a bit of metal out of the radius arms to avoid contact. One of the POs did this to my rig at one point in time. My stock tie rod also had plenty of wear on it due to contact with the arms.

Re: tie rod roll. Ah gotcha. But if I do that with the TREs, isn't that going to throw off my toe setting? By doing so, isn't that simply going to point the wheels in or out more?

 

[Hobies]

If you have a tall lift and you're trying to force caster back into spec the tie rod will hit the arms even while sitting flat on the ground. Some folks even have to grind a bit of metal out of the radius arms to avoid contact. One of the POs did this to my rig at one point in time. My stock tie rod also had plenty of wear on it due to contact with the arms.

Re: tie rod roll. Ah gotcha. But if I do that with the TREs, isn't that going to throw off my toe setting? By doing so, isn't that simply going to point the wheels in or out more?

ah gotcha. so my lift is 2.5". i am guess by large lift you mean 4" or more. my 80 is all of 2 weeks old to me right now i have a been ordering parts everyday lol. i am still deciding on what to do for steering and i want hyrdo steer. what i dont trust are the stock arms but i have no experience with 80 stock arms so i cant say.

and no rolling the tre forward or backward doesnt "have" to change the toe if you dont let it. we are only talking about a few degrees too

 

[LandBruiser69]

Very happy I saw this... Great write up guys! Gives me a great mod to look forward to!

 

[KevinNY]

Nicely done though often times beefing up steering just moves the failure points to something much more expensive and catastrophic in my experience. You do seem to have thought it out well and I support your choice of TREs over heims.

 

[cruiserruf]

Nicely done though often times beefing up steering just moves the failure points to something much more expensive and catastrophic in my experience. You do seem to have thought it out well and I support your choice of TREs over heims.

i have this planned in the future but could you explain where the failure points would be now? curious. only thing i can think of would be added pressure on the pitman arm and the rest of the steering components?

 

[KevinNY]

If the tie rod doesn't fold or an end break then that force is going either upstream or downstream. Either up through the box or down through the knuckle. It's really just an engineering exercise, if you are pushing a truck to those limits then you already know what you are getting into, or should.

 

[DHwreckage]

Hey Jose,

How would you say the dead spot is with this steering system? i have the stock set-up now and i seem to have a large dead spot which is quite annoying which may be from my toyota TRE's going out. i think i may have to give this a try then i can take the radius arms off and do a short arm 3-link

 

[kbahus]

I need to do TRE's one of these days but the last time I tried to do an alignment I could barely turn the links so I am thinking I will at least need new TRE's and links which will be at minimal a $300 dollar adventure. This upgrade doesn't seem to cost a whole lot more and looks appealing. Now that you have had it for a while how would you rate the road manners? My truck is DD and gets a lot of highway and expo type use now so that is my main concern.

 

[jcardona1]

i have this planned in the future but could you explain where the failure points would be now? curious. only thing i can think of would be added pressure on the pitman arm and the rest of the steering components?

I think the next weak link would be the sector shaft. I know a few folks have twisted the splines on that thing. Some have upgraded to the bigger shafts of the 105 series. I think hydro assist would help a lot here. Using hydraulic pressure to easily turn the tires and push boulders out of the way without transferring all that force up into the box. I believe that would then cause the knuckle studs to be the weak link. You could also add some aftermarket heavy duty studs.

Hey Jose,

How would you say the dead spot is with this steering system? i have the stock set-up now and i seem to have a large dead spot which is quite annoying which may be from my toyota TRE's going out. i think i may have to give this a try then i can take the radius arms off and do a short arm 3-link

I need to do TRE's one of these days but the last time I tried to do an alignment I could barely turn the links so I am thinking I will at least need new TRE's and links which will be at minimal a $300 dollar adventure. This upgrade doesn't seem to cost a whole lot more and looks appealing. Now that you have had it for a while how would you rate the road manners? My truck is DD and gets a lot of highway and expo type use now so that is my main concern.

It's hard for me to assess road manners on this thing because I bought it with a lift already. I never owned a stock 80 with caster where it should be so I don't know how it's supposed to ride. This thing has been at 0º caster since I bought it, so I attribute the crappy road manners to caster. Still on my to do list, so I think I just may do some band-aid caster plates for the short term.

With that said, I don't believe this Y-link made the truck feel any different on the freeway. It handles just as bad as it did before (caster). There are however, 3 distinct differences in the feel of the steering after this conversion:

• The "clunk" of the tie rod as it "rolls" when turning the wheel. This is the Y-link tie rod roll we've been discussing. I'm hoping the poly spacers alleviate some of this. Dead spot, I can't evaluate because of my out-of-spec caster and wandering road manners. Not a big deal to me, but it may be for some.
  
  
• When making tight turns at slow speeds, like a U-turn at a red light, the steering doesn't have the tendency to return back to center like a normal setup. Normally you just accelerate away and the wheels gradually straighten themselves out. But now, if I don't turn the wheel back the other way it will kind of just "sit there" in the locked/turned position. Not a big deal to me, but it may be for some.
  
  
• You may or may not loose a tiny bit of steering radius. Everybody's setup is different so this may be more of an issue for some and less for others. On mine, the tie rod just barely contacts the panhard and full turn to the passenger side. I've circled where it contacts in this photo. Keep in mind I'm running an Ironman adjustable panhard which I think is a bit thicker than stock.
  
  
  

I should also note you need a decent amount of lift to run this conversion. Another member tried this and is having issues with the tie rod contacting the panhard bracket up on the frame. I believe he has a 2"-ish lift. I'm at about 4" approximately I would say (FOR 3.5" springs and 1" spacers). I have no issues but I have noticed that my tie rod will make contact with the frame-side panhard bracket if I hit a big enough hole with enough speed while offroad. I can see a bit of paint rubbed off on the tie rod when it made contact. Again, not a big deal to me, but it may be for some. It doesn't seem to affect articulation. Seems like it happens when the truck is sitting flat and you fully stuff the suspension.

Here's a few articulation pics and you can see tie rod is not even close to the panhard bracket:

 

[DHwreckage]

Thanks for the replies, my truck has the slee 4" but im not digging the coils they seem to be really stiff and im not sure what the PO did as far as caster correction i believe last time i got the alignment checked i was at about 0 degree's too. i think i need to save up some dough and do this. too bad there are no options for a cross-over steering system with out getting rid of abs as i do not want my girlfriend to drive this with no abs during the winter...

 

[kbahus]

I see how the link could interfere with the panhard mount with a lower lift. I went out and looked at my truck and with a 2" lift it could be a problem. I have been contemplating going to heavy front springs but for now that is what I have to deal with and I don't think it will work. Well, back to the drawing board and thanks for the input!

 

[jcardona1]

Thanks for the replies, my truck has the slee 4" but im not digging the coils they seem to be really stiff and im not sure what the PO did as far as caster correction i believe last time i got the alignment checked i was at about 0 degree's too. i think i need to save up some dough and do this. too bad there are no options for a cross-over steering system with out getting rid of abs as i do not want my girlfriend to drive this with no abs during the winter...

Yeah for sure. I've been toying with the idea of deleting the ABS system all together to get rid of the spongy brake feel. But I'm not sure I'd be able to handle an emergency stop safely in this thing. That's what's holding me back.

But my ultimate long term goal is 4WU's 3-link kit which completely relocates the panhard with new brackets on the axle and the frame. I'd then copy what js93cruiser did and use a Slee high-steer arm on the passenger side to run crossover steering, getting rid of tie rod roll and dead spots. If I was able to splurge, I'd go with the Hellfire knuckles as well.

 

[DHwreckage]

i wonder if instead of using 2 TRE's at the junction in the blue circle if you had 1 TRE connecting the trailing rod from the DS to PS arms and a heim join welded onto the trailing rod at about the same plact that connects the trailing rod to the pitman arm.....hmmm ive seen that done somewhere before but i dont remember. wonder if that would stop or help with the TRE roll. ehh that wouldnt really stop the rotation effect on the TR...sorry just thinking out out loud !

 

[jcardona1]

i wonder if instead of using 2 TRE's at the junction in the blue circle if you had 1 TRE connecting the trailing rod from the DS to PS arms and a heim join welded onto the trailing rod at about the same plact that connects the trailing rod to the pitman arm.....hmmm ive seen that done somewhere before but i dont remember. wonder if that would stop or help with the TRE roll. ehh that wouldnt really stop the rotation effect on the TR...sorry just thinking out out loud !

I just remembered, Ruff Stuff carries offset TREs. I wonder if these would push the tie rod out away enough to avoid contact. Hmm...

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/TREOFF.html

 

[SNLC]

I bought the exact same kit from RS. I also picked up a RHD steering arm from a buddy in Aus, $80.

My point in doing the conversion is to correct castor by c&t. Good info in this thread, I was worried in page 1&2 that I may have issues with the tre to panhard. But by page 3 I can see with the c&t it will roll the tie rod back which I think will give a bit more clearance. I suppose if it is a prob, I can easily just get the off-set tres.

The reamer for the taper is not that much cash. I still need to buy mine but per pirate4x4 threads I can get a SnapOn one for about $60-80 online. That is all I need to buy and I am ready to do mine.

My goal, get castor in the 4-5* range after the steering conversion. See how that plays out. I do not hardcore wheel this truck and won't be. I simply am after fixing castor without a bunch of bolt on junk like caster plates, drop brackets, ect ect.

Cheers

 

[Wrench]

Would this be a good option for someone that can't keep there rear tie rod straight? Sick of bending tie rods. Getting expensive!

 

[AMMO]

Wrench,

For that type of situation yes and no... By moving it to the front your "spotter" should keep it in the clear... But if your smacking the front of your axel on rocks it will be out front.

The plus side tho is the RS it's crazy HD, thick and beefy.

I'm going to have my complete Y link kit up for sale here in about a week if anyone is interested. The plus side is it's already cut and welded to 80 series length.

With the Slee high steer I'm working on a double sheer set up right now and won't need the Y link. It's safe to say I've tried every steering set up possible at this point.

But the Y link in the lower position is a great option to get it all to the front.

-Matt