With the amounts of flash/slag/sand left in the cooling jacket (especially near the exhaust port) it's no wonder these fail.... not that you can do much about it, maybe just hope you have a clean head.
A 2H story (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter arnott1t
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I think if you are prepared to go all out a Metal head gasket is a must. But as i said before the block and head surfaces must me decked to a very smooth finish, much more so than a fiber gasket.
That and the clean up work on the head ports, as has been said before there looks to be a lot of areas for improvement in the valve area. To remove any left over sand you could try making a vibration table and allow the head to sit on that for a few hours. Or if you know from your cut up head where the sand seems to be take an air hammer with a dull flat end and hammer away for a few min trying to break it up. I would be worried about it breaking free though and no breaking up so its basically floating around in its void.
That and the clean up work on the head ports, as has been said before there looks to be a lot of areas for improvement in the valve area. To remove any left over sand you could try making a vibration table and allow the head to sit on that for a few hours. Or if you know from your cut up head where the sand seems to be take an air hammer with a dull flat end and hammer away for a few min trying to break it up. I would be worried about it breaking free though and no breaking up so its basically floating around in its void.
arnott1t
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- #63
Ok so did some emailing Akella and he has helped me out.
Hope he is ok with prices being posted...
New bolts are about 200
Gasket is cheaper than I thought..but with intake and exhaust I'll be about the same...
Toyota Pre cups are pricey..... not sure if I should re use or what. I reused last time. Seem like they all crack and its more bad luck than anything if they fail and pile your engine up...
Hope he is ok with prices being posted...
New bolts are about 200
Gasket is cheaper than I thought..but with intake and exhaust I'll be about the same...
Toyota Pre cups are pricey..... not sure if I should re use or what. I reused last time. Seem like they all crack and its more bad luck than anything if they fail and pile your engine up...
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
I will be rebuilding my 2H shortly and want to use new studs with higher tensile as I added a turbo (Turbo-Glide) and we all know the extra stress it puts on the head gasket. I will be heading your way (central & south-Am) next july and don't feel like risking blowing a head gasket in the amazon forest or something...
You will be more than welcome down here .. but again .. as Crusher said, is not your boost what is going to kill your engine .. will be your right foot ..
Don't get me wrong .. I show no mercy when I need to nail my 2H .. the only think that makes me give a chance on her it's when water temp it's going sky hi .. ( over 220°F ) and that would kill your head with or without ARP studs ..
You mentioned an in-frame rebuild... If you switch to head studs, can you reinstall the head without pulling the engine?
Have you considered adding the stiffening plate from the 12HT? I haven't seen much discussion of it and am curious if you think it would be worthwhile.
Have you considered adding the stiffening plate from the 12HT? I haven't seen much discussion of it and am curious if you think it would be worthwhile.
Just for the H... of it, I gave my local Toyota dealer a call and asked if the original 2H head bolts were still available and if so, how much they wanted for them.
Well, they're very proud of their bolts... $20.37 each. So, for a complete set of 26 it comes to $529.62 + tax (over 15% in Québec.)......
ARPs it will be.
Well, they're very proud of their bolts... $20.37 each. So, for a complete set of 26 it comes to $529.62 + tax (over 15% in Québec.)......
ARPs it will be.
http://www.thomasnet.com/articles/hardware/head-stud-bolts
Above is a link explaining the differences between head bolts and studs.
Further, the ARP option is far cheaper than new factory head bolts. Honestly, I would always replace the bolts unless I knew specifically that it was not required.
Head studs are a pain in a V8 car due to requiring the removal of the engine to remove the head. This is not as much an issue in our straight six rigs.
Honestly, I would do the ARP studs, some ARP torque lube and whatever head gasket you choose.
You should also post part numbers and where you purchased for the head gasket as this should be a sticky for 2H turbo owners (IMHO). The head cutaways tell us a lot about the head design.
Dan
Above is a link explaining the differences between head bolts and studs.
Further, the ARP option is far cheaper than new factory head bolts. Honestly, I would always replace the bolts unless I knew specifically that it was not required.
Head studs are a pain in a V8 car due to requiring the removal of the engine to remove the head. This is not as much an issue in our straight six rigs.
Honestly, I would do the ARP studs, some ARP torque lube and whatever head gasket you choose.
You should also post part numbers and where you purchased for the head gasket as this should be a sticky for 2H turbo owners (IMHO). The head cutaways tell us a lot about the head design.
Dan
Arnott, Slower. I'm currently in communication with a tech/sales rep at ARP. Following is part of our conversation. I thought you (and others as well) may find it interesting:
"Marc,
We normally use high strength materials for diesel applications. Kit 207-4202 does not contain studs that I would recommend for a diesel application! the studs in that kit are 5.750” long – 12mm diameter with a 1.25 thread pitch both ends."
Best regards,
Alan Nichols
Sales & Technical
Automotive Racing Products
I asked him if they had anything same size that would be suitable for our diesel application.
Here's his response:
"Marc,
We do not have a high strength stud in the length range of the 207-4202, the thread pitch being the issue. Most of our diesel studs have a 1.75 thread pitch."
Best regards,
Alan Nichols
Sales & Technical
Automotive Racing Products
Interesting, isn't it?
Unless someone knows something I don't, I guess this leaves us no real choices but OEM bolts. Following that new input, I gave a call to Cruiserparts and they have OEM bolts for $9.99/ea so $260 a set...
"Marc,
We normally use high strength materials for diesel applications. Kit 207-4202 does not contain studs that I would recommend for a diesel application! the studs in that kit are 5.750” long – 12mm diameter with a 1.25 thread pitch both ends."
Best regards,
Alan Nichols
Sales & Technical
Automotive Racing Products
I asked him if they had anything same size that would be suitable for our diesel application.
Here's his response:
"Marc,
We do not have a high strength stud in the length range of the 207-4202, the thread pitch being the issue. Most of our diesel studs have a 1.75 thread pitch."
Best regards,
Alan Nichols
Sales & Technical
Automotive Racing Products
Interesting, isn't it?
Unless someone knows something I don't, I guess this leaves us no real choices but OEM bolts. Following that new input, I gave a call to Cruiserparts and they have OEM bolts for $9.99/ea so $260 a set...
arnott1t
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- Thread starter
- #70
So with my turbo requiring a rebuild I'm considering an upgrade if possible. One that I've been interested in for a while is an hy35 found on 2nd gen cummins automatics. It has a very small exhaust housing and can bigger compressor than my little t25.
At one time a guy had one on a 3b and loved it. So my 2h might love it too!
Seems used ones are pretty affordable...
At one time a guy had one on a 3b and loved it. So my 2h might love it too!
Seems used ones are pretty affordable...
Personally I think that turbo is to big for a 4L diesel engine. Remember what works good on a 5.9L cummins may not be ideal for a 4L Toyota. I know there are a bunch of guys on 4BT swaps running them and having quite a bit of lag (4BT and 4BD are also 4L diesels for comparison). They go ok top end but never really get get you the power where you want it in a 4x4.
I'm playing around with making a Volvo TD04HL-13T into a TD04HL-19T for my 4BD1T (3.9L diesel). The turbo will supply enough air to my engine to get me in the 250hp range while maintaining good low end response. The turbo's are cheap used on ebay, the parts to mod it to 19T are cheap and the rebuilds are easy. They have a 7cm exhaust housing and a high flow turbine wheel so there should be no issues with a bottle neck there if there is a functional waste gate.
arnott1t
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Certainly thoughts to consider. I was going on the basis that a member of this forum, Dieseldude, had one and liked it on a 3.4l engine. One thing to consider a bit is that I'll be asking lower boost of the turbo and have a higher rev range than a cummins typically does...well maybe not now that I think on it.
Likely can just keep mine still working anyway and then spring for a G turbo so I can make an HDT slayer someday....
Fine you talked me out of it... unless I find one cheap.
Still waiting on funding to start ordering parts. Hope to order gaskets sooner than later. Have a few questions into the ARP rep as well to make sure I don't want their studs. Then just need to port polish and get some pistons....
Likely can just keep mine still working anyway and then spring for a G turbo so I can make an HDT slayer someday....
Fine you talked me out of it... unless I find one cheap.
Still waiting on funding to start ordering parts. Hope to order gaskets sooner than later. Have a few questions into the ARP rep as well to make sure I don't want their studs. Then just need to port polish and get some pistons....
arnott1t
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- Thread starter
- #73
Head Gasket Head Gasket Head Gasket
Copper Head Gasket:
As most of us know the 2H did not come with a metal head gasket rather a fibre re-enforced style. This doesn't have the same reputation in the diesel performance world as MLS gaskets. I've found a gasket manufacture in California that make Copper Gaskets. These are custom cut of any thickness from 20-45 thou. I'd need to either send him and old gasket for him to measure and reproduce. The gasket would be about 200 and the creation of a DXF file is 120. Alternatively I can create the file and send it to him saving me 120 and shipping a gasket down there.
So.....
Anyone have experience with Copper Head Gaskets? He mentioned they build them for cummins and tractor pulling rigs...
Thoughts on surface finish of 2H block and head? Is it smooth enough?
Would this gasket be more robust?
Tyler
Copper Head Gasket:
As most of us know the 2H did not come with a metal head gasket rather a fibre re-enforced style. This doesn't have the same reputation in the diesel performance world as MLS gaskets. I've found a gasket manufacture in California that make Copper Gaskets. These are custom cut of any thickness from 20-45 thou. I'd need to either send him and old gasket for him to measure and reproduce. The gasket would be about 200 and the creation of a DXF file is 120. Alternatively I can create the file and send it to him saving me 120 and shipping a gasket down there.
So.....
Anyone have experience with Copper Head Gaskets? He mentioned they build them for cummins and tractor pulling rigs...
Thoughts on surface finish of 2H block and head? Is it smooth enough?
Would this gasket be more robust?
Tyler
arnott1t
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- Thread starter
- #74
More progress. Measured bores with bore gauge and all are good. Less than .001" any direction and can still see cross hatch. Hoping to break glaze and install new pistons.
Started port work on intake ports. Really isn't port work more bowl area and transition from port to seat work. Coming along nicely.
Started port work on intake ports. Really isn't port work more bowl area and transition from port to seat work. Coming along nicely.
arnott1t
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- #76
On my swing to night shift I got about half of the rough porting done. I need to get some more sanding wheels in finer grits to get the rest of it done. Carbide work is done on 3 cylinders so far. The drill is still working pretty well though I switched to a corded one for more speed. I used the buffing compound and was able to get cylinder 1 to a mirror on the runner. Pretty cool. I'll likely keep working at it as time allows. Got a quote locally for pistons and rings for about 750. At that price I might be crazy not to buy an entire kit. It is such a slippery slope.
For coating the exhaust runners I likely don't want to smooth them out much correct? at all? Any chance you want to bore scope your piston tops to see if coating is still there. My other though is a mirror polish on the exhaust would do well for shedding heat.
For coating the exhaust runners I likely don't want to smooth them out much correct? at all? Any chance you want to bore scope your piston tops to see if coating is still there. My other though is a mirror polish on the exhaust would do well for shedding heat.
I would get the exhaust as smooth and shiney as possible to keep as much heat in the ex gas as possible and the smoothness will hopefully reduce any carbon buildup as much as possible....
Is your quote for alfin pistons and rings or ?
If you were to coat them, you would need to blast them to give them some tooth. I'd lean heavily towards polishing the exhaust ports and not coating them, as I think it will be a pain in the ass to get a decent coat on them.
I really should pick up a bore scope and take a look
