97 power steer pump bleed foaming (1 Viewer)

[rfwj]

I could use some help. I replaced my ps pump and did not bleed it correctly. lots of noise shining but it worked. So I did the lift and turn and it spit some liquid.

I know I did not read and I thought the air would just work its way out. Anyway, it is now foaming and spitting. plus not working.

Should i just pull the return line and try to bleed it manually with the engine off lifting both front wheels.

Or do I have to pull the pump and start over? Other suggestions

thanks

rich

 

[Pin_Head]

Let the bubbles go away and then fill it up, turn the wheels lock to lock and start it up. Rinse, repeat until the noise goes away and the fluid level stops rising after you turn it off.

 

[whitrzac]

Did you fill with power steering fluid rather than ATF?

Its suppose to take ATF, power steering fluid will cause it to foam.

 

[gorbilax]

I just went through this when I replaced the PS pump in my 94. With the engine running, just keep turning the wheel all the way left, all the way right, all the way left, etc... over and over. It will whine while you do this. After four or five rotations, the whining will be less pronounced... shut the engine off, add fluid as needed, repeat. When you first start, you won't have any power steering, and it will be stiff. Eventually you will work your way to power steering with dead spots, and finally total power steering. Keep doing this until the whining stops. You may need to let the bubbles settle for awhile in between steps when you first start out, but for me, it sorted itself out pretty quick. ATF is what I used. I didn't jack my front end up. I did it with tires on the pavement.

 

[girupb]

Did you fill with power steering fluid rather than ATF?

Its suppose to take ATF, power steering fluid will cause it to foam.

ATF foams just like power steering fluid foams. I’ve done it twice now and lots of pink foam each time. @Pin_Head has it right. It takes a little while but it will work.

 

[ajordan1975]

Bleed it before you start it or you’ll burn up the new pump. Lock to lock w/ the key on. Do not start!! Have someone watch for bubbles to stop bubbling. Than start it and trim lock to lock some more.

 

[Tools R Us]

...
Its suppose to take ATF, power steering fluid will cause it to foam.

All types of power steering fluid that we have tried, have cleared foam better than ATF. They came from the factory with light tan clear fluid, sure looked like P/S or hydraulic fluid. Mine has never had ATF in it. In every way that we have seen P/S or hydraulic fluid out performs ATF. Since it's first service, at ~50k mi, mine has had Mobil DTE light hydraulic fluid. For most ATF will work fine, but P/S or hydraulic fluid will also work, likely better and for sure will not cause damage.

 

[Tools R Us]

Bleed it before you start it or you’ll burn up the new pump. Lock to lock w/ the key on. Do not start!! Have someone watch for bubbles to stop bubbling. Than start it and trim lock to lock some more.

So you are out on the trail, at a big angle, suck it full of air, you stop right there and do some complex bleed procedure? I don't, as gorbilax correctly pointed out, if working properly, will self bleed, will make noise, take longer, but will work, without damage.

Making the assumption of good relatively clean fluid, the most common causes of cavitation are suction flow restriction and/or suction side air leak. The suction area is from the reservoir to the pump, so leak in the 5/8" line or the o-ring on the inlet fitting. Flow restriction is most often the screen filter in the bottom of the reservoir.

 

[skhochay]

did my too it will bubble a bit then all will be fine - is in in the manual indicates that will bubble

 

[RFB]

Jack it up put int on stands dissconnect steering stabilizer turn steering wheel 10 times slowly ach way with engine off let it set an hour top off redo it. takes forever ask me how I know.

 

[rfwj]

thanks for all the info. I did use ATF fluid. I will try to bleed a bit with the wheels up since i have the time. Do you have to leave the cap off while running at first.

 

[ajordan1975]

So you are out on the trail, at a big angle, suck it full of air, you stop right there and do some complex bleed procedure? I don't, as gorbilax correctly pointed out, if working properly, will self bleed, will make noise, take longer, but will work, without damage.

Making the assumption of good relatively clean fluid, the most common causes of cavitation are suction flow restriction and/or suction side air leak. The suction area is from the reservoir to the pump, so leak in the 5/8" line or the o-ring on the inlet fitting. Flow restriction is most often the screen filter in the bottom of the reservoir.

this isn't a trail fix though.
i've had my share of trail repairs and done it the same way.
this is the way i learned how to do it, and just passing me experience on.

 

[Hornd]

All types of power steering fluid that we have tried, have cleared foam better than ATF. They came from the factory with light tan clear fluid, sure looked like P/S or hydraulic fluid. Mine has never had ATF in it. In every way that we have seen P/S or hydraulic fluid out performs ATF. Since it's first service, at ~50k mi, mine has had Mobil DTE light hydraulic fluid. For most ATF will work fine, but P/S or hydraulic fluid will also work, likely better and for sure will not cause damage.

The pump is mounted on side of motor using a gear(1993-1997). If pump leaks it goes into Motor.
I think ATF is safer in Motor oil, but never studied it, but I know Toyota did.

 

[Tools R Us]

The pump is mounted on side of motor using a gear(1993-1997). If pump leaks it goes into Motor.
I think ATF is safer in Motor oil, but never studied it, but I know Toyota did.

If that is what you think, run it. If Toyota studied it and found something significant, why didn't they ship from the factory with ATF?

 

[mudgudgeon]

ATF & Power steering fluid are both hydraulic oils. Viscosity and additives may vary, but there's not a big difference either way.
I use power steering fluid. Owning a LC with a manual tranny, I have no use for ATF, so as I'm buying fluid either way, PSF it is.

Would have no hesitation using ATF though.

 

[Hornd]

If that is what you think, run it. If Toyota studied it and found something significant, why didn't they ship from the factory with ATF?

How are you sure its not ATF, without the Red additive?
If it's clear it would also show when it breaks down sooner than a colored fluid.
Kerosene comes in red and clear.

 

[jonheld]

I'm not really sure what all the fuss is about here and I don't understand why you have to swing a dead chicken over your head to bleed a power steering system.

I replaced the high pressure lines, the low pressure lines, the reservoir, had the pump out to do it all, and had zero issue refilling the system.
I put everything back together, tightened all the clamps, filled the reservoir, and started the truck. The pump cavitated for a second or 2 and quieted down. I shut off the engine and filled the reservoir again, cleaned up, and I was done.
Level has not changed, fluid is tasty clean, and the wheels turn left AND right with no leaks.

 

[Tools R Us]

How are you sure its not ATF, without the Red additive? ...

In other words, P/S or hydraulic fluid.

ATF & Power steering fluid are both hydraulic oils. Viscosity and additives may vary, but there's not a big difference either way.
I use power steering fluid. Owning a LC with a manual tranny, I have no use for ATF, so as I'm buying fluid either way, PSF it is.

Would have no hesitation using ATF though.

The base oils are the same. The big difference is; ATF has more additives, for instance, friction modifiers to deal with the clutches. The power steering system has no clutches, so these are not needed, are a contaminant. The power steering is a purely hydraulic system, so P/S or hydraulic are the ideal fluids for it.

ATF will work, says so right on the cap! But so will P/S or hydraulic fluids, and they will not cause damage. Our observation is; they work better, when run hard, are less prone to cavitation and run cleaner. Have done a bunch of reseal jobs, the ones that have run ATF have significantly more varnish and goo in them, than the ones with P/S or hydraulic fluids.

If you are running ATF and pushing it hard enough to have cavitation problems, the Toyota recommendation is to add Downy fabric softener. The active ingredient is silicone, a good anti-foam agent, but in Downy, it's emulsified in the main ingredient, water, not good. I prefer to solve the problem by switching to a more appropriate fluid for the system.

 

[Hornd]

In other words, P/S or hydraulic fluid.



The base oils are the same. The big difference is; ATF has more additives, for instance, friction modifiers to deal with the clutches. The power steering system has no clutches, so these are not needed, are a contaminant. The power steering is a purely hydraulic system, so P/S or hydraulic are the ideal fluids for it.

ATF will work, says so right on the cap! But so will P/S or hydraulic fluids, and they will not cause damage. Our observation is; they work better, when run hard, are less prone to cavitation and run cleaner. Have done a bunch of reseal jobs, the ones that have run ATF have significantly more varnish and goo in them, than the ones with P/S or hydraulic fluids.

If you are running ATF and pushing it hard enough to have cavitation problems, the Toyota recommendation is to add Downy fabric softener. The active ingredient is silicone, a good anti-foam agent, but in Downy, it's emulsified in the main ingredient, water, not good. I prefer to solve the problem by switching to a more appropriate fluid for the system.

I rebuilt with the Gates Kit and a new piece of Gates 5/8" Hose for low pressure hose. Put in new SKF bearing, but old was fine. Bought one quart of Fully Synthetic ATF, and have had zero cavitation issues. These pumps are a great design in that they are self lubricating and you can put new guts in them for $20 at 200K and they are good again. The right way to do this would be to have a spare already rebuilt, then just switch them out.

 

[LINUS]

ATF will work, says so right on the cap! But so will P/S or hydraulic fluids, and they will not cause damage. Our observation is; they work better, when run hard, are less prone to cavitation and run cleaner. Have done a bunch of reseal jobs.......

If you are running ATF and pushing it hard enough to have cavitation problems, the Toyota recommendation is to add Downy fabric softener. The active ingredient is silicone, a good anti-foam agent, but in Downy, it's emulsified in the main ingredient, water, not good. I prefer to solve the problem by switching to a more appropriate fluid for the system.

Kevin - are you dead serious I’m supposed to add that “smells good” blue goo you toss in your laundry -to fight emulsion in PS system?

I’m not saying it’s bat$hit crazy, we added an anti-foaming agent into refinery processes (ours was a water soluble fluid, the agent was an animal fat) - but I have quarts of pure silicone oil we use in air diaphragm pumps, we burn out the pumps from severe duty before the service oil ever comes into play, so they just replace the bladder & we had a spare pump sitting next to the service unit, ready to go.

I just want to make sure that in all seriousness you’re talking the blue goo I put in laundry, because it sounds pretty odd.
But if you’re serious, I’ll take you at your word.

Nobody will believe me - but the older I get, the less I think I know.