'93 Birf repack this weekend. Couple final questions.

[semlin]

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=1982&highlight=koyo

Hayes and Charlie

scroll down to beowulf's post #14 on the above link for a complete parts list.

You need a brass drift if you plan on replacing the trunion bearings. Of course you need trunnion bearings too if you plan to do that. Personally I would do that.

I also think snap ring pliers are good to get the c clamp off.

go to the third page of this thread below for a write up of how to do the knuckle housing part of the job (you can read the rest if you like for a cautionary tale).

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=7689&highlight=axle


For the rest of the job I strongly recomend

http://www.ih8mud.com/tech/birf-repack.php
http://www.safari4x4.com.au/80scool/tech/birfield_repack/repack.html

 

[Hayes]

Semlin, again, thanks for the links.

I hadn't come across that nice list of parts because I've been focused solely on the basic birf repack. That's also where I got confused over the expanding description of the job.

Well. Sounds like it's a good idea for me go just a little further, and the job doesn't seem difficult, as long as I've got all the pieces ahead of time!

At the VERY LEAST, I will be going as far as the inner axle seals and repacked wheel and birf bearings this Saturday.
I guess my final question would be:

At 130k miles (30k mine, 100k previous), whould you spend the money (as described in Section A of Beowulf's list) to replace all the bearings (inner, outer hub, inner outer knuckle), and what would you probably reuse (dust seal, etc)?
I understand the value of replacing high-wear parts, but I don't qualify as "Money is no object" in the heading of Beowulf's Section A list.

Hayes

 

[semlin]

hayes

1. I have worked on 3 truck birf repacks and all had knuckle bearing damage. mileage was 70k, 125k and 148k. All of the pitting was on just a few rollers. I would replace those bearings. Also consider that if you tear it down and find they are in bad shape you will probably have to wait a couple of days with the truck off the road because these bearings are fairly unusual and probably won't be in stock abnywhere unless you live in central NM. i definitely would not go to the trouble of doing a birf repack without pulling the knuckle bearings.

2. i think 2 out of 3 trucks had pitted wheel bearings. This is a job that could be postponed because it is much less work to pull the hub than the knuckle bearings. I would do it myself, but your call. You can buy the bearings locally and return them if you don't need them.

3. you can't reuse anything except the bearings imho.

4. you can get the bearings much cheaper either from a local autoparts place or, even better, a local industrial bearing supplier. the wheel bearings are a common size should be available anywhere they sell bearings. I would make sure you got timken made in usa or koyo which is what toyota supplies. the knuckle bearings are unusual and you will need to search here to get the full part # [edit looks like b-wulf updated his list to put taht i n there] and probably special order if you don't buy from toyota. be careful because there is a common 12 roller bearing with almost the same pn# but the correct part has 13 rollers, and the 12 roller will not stand up to use.

 

[Hayes]

OK.

The new plan is the full hub to knuckle overhaul.

I've located all the parts on Beowulf's "Section A" list.
I found the Timken wheel bearings and races at NAPA. They also sell the outer races and bearings as a set for a little cheaper. Is there any reason NOT to go for the set?
The knuckle bearings are in stock at Larry H Miller's dealership.

What should I look for in the wheel / knuckle bearings to decide whether they should be replaced or not? Or should I just replace them regardless?

I've got a big-ass 2 1/8 inch socket, seal pullers, torque wrenches, pliers, hammers, spring scales (borrowed from the high-school's physics closet--I supposedly teach physics and chemistry to kids), brass drifts, and a six-pack of beer.

I've also printed the appropriate ih8mud articles and forum posts.

Ready to roll...as far as I can tell.

Hayes

 

[semlin]

any damage to the bearings will be apparent if you check the rollers and look for discolouration or scoring.

i would check the brand of the bearings napa sells. i would also look up "bearings" in your yellow pages and see what's there b/c I got them a lot cheaper from a bearing shop than an auto supply shop was offering.


have you got any hand cleaner? seriously, you sound ready to roll. good luck.

 

[OGBeno]

Hayes--

Get lots of part cleaner too...I usually get the 1-gal. container's from Advanced Auto (other places probably have them too). Clean everything nice and well. IIRC, I left my birfs. soaking in diesel overnight to get them really really clean.

I didn't switch sides on mine because they didn't have too much wear to them (they weren't even clicking when I did the front end on mine--I just wanted to baseline it when I got the rig).

I put new trunion bearings and races in and kept the old wheel bearings (I let them soak overnight as well in the parts cleaner to really get the old grease out of them). Make sure they are packed when when you put them back in the hub and make sure the trunions are packed well too when you put them into the knuckle. Those trunion bearings take the brunt of force and weight on the front end of these rigs.

I think Timkin's should be fine bearings--after all, don't they make bearings for Hummer's?

I would take pics. if I were you--makes the whole things like a small adventure.

Also, did I mention, clean everything really nice--bolts, nuts, hubs, scrape off the paper gasket from the hub real nicely (use a wire brush)...here are some pics for you....

Best and good luck.
-onur
Akron, OH

 

[Rich]

If you wish to reuse the existing bearings then clean them with solvent. Examine both cups and cones for visual physical damage and obvious wear. Manually rotate the cones in the cups and verify smooth operation. If you have new bearings compare the smoothness of operation between clean old bearings and clean new bearings. If they look good and roll smooth, then they are reusable.

If you have already gone to the trouble to buy new bearings, it may be hard to get the motivation to clean the old ones for inspection. It helps to have compressed air for blowing out the grease and solvent in the old bearings. Don't take advantage of compressed air to see how fast you can spin up the bearings as doing so can damage the bearings due to overspeed, no lubrication, and lack of loading.

 

[Hayes]

Semlin.
Thanks for the heads-up on the NAPA branding. Although I specified Temkin part numbers to them, they qoted me BCS. I called a local bearing shop and they've got plenty o' Temkin bearings.

Beno.
Thanks for the pictures.

Rich.
I was going to use gasoline or diesel, and brake cleaner. I won't be able to soak them overnight. Would recommend anything else?

Hayes

 

[Hayes]

Oh, by the way...

What's the word on the various bearing brands?
Beowulf's list specifies Timkins for the wheels and Koyo for the knuckles.

Hayes

 

[Rookie2]

but I don't qualify as "Money is no object" in the heading of Beowulf's Section A list.

Hayes

Then you might want to get your Timkin wheel bearings from Autozone instead of NAPA. As I recall, the same bearings at NAPA were exactly twice as much as Autozone. You should be able to get all 4 wheel bearings and races for right near $60.

 

[ryanjl]

OEM bearings on 80 series were Koyo up to a certain point (94?), then Timken.

The Timken wheel bearings I got at Autozone had the exact same part numbers stamped on the side as the OEM ones I pulled out, so you are good to go there. The knuckle bearings I got from C-Dan (Toyota is the only place I could source these without having the actual bearing part number in hand, and I was glad to support C-Dan's dogs anyway) along with the rest of the materials were Koyo.

Personal preference, really.

 

[snowwolfwarrior]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but make sure the flat on the birfield is at the top before you pull it out of axle. you can see the flat on the birfields in the bucket picture

 

[CharlieS]

Hayes,

If you're online tonight, dont sweat it. I tore into mine today and it is pretty simple. No sweat.

One thought though - I don't usually wear gloves when working on cars, but this is one job you'll want a box of disposable gloves for.

Good luck.

Charlie

 

[reffug]

One thought though - I don't usually wear gloves when working on cars, but this is one job you'll want a box of disposable gloves for.

Good luck.

Charlie

NO NO NO

Your supposed to do a birf job in the buff and slather the stuff all over if possible.

 

[Rich]

...Rich.
I was going to use gasoline or diesel, and brake cleaner. I won't be able to soak them overnight. Would recommend anything else?
Hayes

Anthing that cuts grease is fine. I use whatever I have around. Laquer thinner, acetone, paint thinner, mineral spirits, brake cleaner. Except I don't ever use gasoline. Too flammable. If even a tablespoon of gasoline ignites in your hands or face, you will regret it. A bowl full would be a huge problem. I know lots of folks use it, but not me.

 

[tarbe]

FWIW, brake cleaner or anything that has a real high vapor pressure is best as it is so much quicker to dry out...especially if you don't separate the birf.

I used WD-40 for part of my second birf as I ran out of brake cleaner and I was forever with the air trying to get the last traces of that stuff out of the nooks and crannies prior to putting the fresh moly grease in there.

Just my $0.02

 

[Beowulf]

What should I look for in the wheel / knuckle bearings to decide whether they should be replaced or not? Or should I just replace them regardless?

Hayes,

No offense, but if you're not sure what to look for then you should replace both the knuckle (trunion) bearings & races and the wheel bearings & races. You are getting good advice on the Timken wheel bearings from Autozone and the advice to replace the trunion bearings and, if possible, getting everything from C-Dan. Actually, all of the above advice regarding what to read, tools to use, and cleaning parts is good advice.

The "money is no object" categorization was a little misleading in the parts list. It probably should read "the typical 'Mud compulsive DIY mechanic." The minimal parts list was for those that are not doing their birfs due to mileage; but due to other reasons (broken parts, re-do, etc.) I would also add a parts washer to the "money is no object" tool list. Wish I had one!

I cannot recall if this is in one of the above links, but it is convenient to have 2 8mm bolts with the heads cut off to use as guides in putting the hub back on. It is also convenient to have an 8mm bolt to put in the end of the stub axle to help in installing the outer C-clip (after the flange is installed.)

One more thing.... go back and read Landtank's post. There are 4 studs that go in the lower portion of the knuckle housing. We have had reports of several people where these have backed out and/or broken off shortly after they did a knuckle service. (Hmmmm. Maybe I should add that to the "anal" List A?)

-B-