88 3FE No Spark

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Joined
Mar 11, 2020
Threads
7
Messages
66
Location
Lexington, KY
Need some help here. Trying to diagnose a no spark issue.

Backstory, did a full rebuild on the motor and a frame off but has sat for 2yrs and was left outside (unbeknownst to me) in the rain without windows for 3 months. Never had a turnover issue prior to.

I thought the issue was fuel delivery related but replaced the fuel pump and have fuel delivery.

The Main Relay clicks and works fine, changed out the core pac, fuel pump, did a spark test from the core to plugs and had a brief one but nothing after from any plugs. Could the issue be with the Circuit Opening Relay? I’m leaning towards ECU, igniter, distributor.

This is my last step before go to paint and at wits end here.
 
I always suspect the distributor cap and rotor, personally. Especially if there's been moisture.
If that looks clean, and everything's connected solid, it's a much trickier question. Are you checking spark with a timing light?
 
Do you have a FSM for the truck? There are some really good troubleshooting charts in there. 30+ year old electronics can be cranky.

A no-start situation is different than a no-spark. I'll try to remember what I can for both.

There are several things that need to go right to start one. Cranking voltage cannot drop below around 11 volts or the ECM may not trigger. I think 10.4 might be the cutoff or close, but if you get lower than 11, often they won't light off. The AFM connector needs to be making good connection. An unhooked AFM will normally start, then die immediately, but I've had one fail to start with the AFM disconnected a time or two. Grounding problems are very common when one has been subjected to water intrusion. Even though the ECM is behind the glove box, there are several grounds that can give you fits. Always check them all out thoroughly. Should be one from battery to passenger side inner fender, one from cylinder head to firewall, one from near the starter to the frame, a couple behind the speedometer and possibly some from the ECM area to the body. Those are the critical locations for cranking and running. There are also grounds to the headlights if you figure out they aren't working.

There is a relay in the lower right kick panel, I think that is the one you mentioned checking. You can disassemble them and check inside for corrosion. If it sat in water, you will get battery voltage out of it, but it won't carry the amps necessary once a load is put on the circuit. If the distributor got water in it, and it is original age, the wiring inside may have degraded or shorted out. In mine, the inductive pickup coils failed with corrosion and it would intermittently start and run bad. New distributor fixed that problem. If the ignitor is getting weak, it will do the same thing. I believe there are troubleshooting procedures for the ignitor, but I don't remember them. The bad thing, is a distributor that shorts internally can smoke an ignitor and last I looked, a chinesium knockoff was almost $400. They haven't made a Toyota ignitor for many years, unless someone has figured out a subsitute. They are application specific for the 3FE, so you can't substitute one from a mini truck or a camry and make it work, or if it does, it probably won't work correctly.

Make sure the starter switch has not gone bad. If it is not energizing the ECM while cranking, nothing will work. A quick test is to see if you get spark in the split second you release the key from the cranking position back to the run position. Symptoms of that failure are common to most vehicles. You crank the motor over for several seconds and the engine lights off as soon as you release the key from the start position while the engine is turning over relatively quickly.
 
 
This one is fuel related, but has some good tech info.

 
Need some help here. Trying to diagnose a no spark issue.

Backstory, did a full rebuild on the motor and a frame off but has sat for 2yrs and was left outside (unbeknownst to me) in the rain without windows for 3 months. Never had a turnover issue prior to.

I thought the issue was fuel delivery related but replaced the fuel pump and have fuel delivery.

The Main Relay clicks and works fine, changed out the core pac, fuel pump, did a spark test from the core to plugs and had a brief one but nothing after from any plugs. Could the issue be with the Circuit Opening Relay? I’m leaning towards ECU, igniter, distributor.

This is my last step before go to paint and at wits end here.

I always suspect the distributor cap and rotor, personally. Especially if there's been moisture.
If that looks clean, and everything's connected solid, it's a much trickier question. Are you checking spark with a timing light?
I am using a BluePoint in-line spark tester. I will replace rotor distributor cap and try that route. Driving me nuts.
 
Do you have a FSM for the truck? There are some really good troubleshooting charts in there. 30+ year old electronics can be cranky.

A no-start situation is different than a no-spark. I'll try to remember what I can for both.

There are several things that need to go right to start one. Cranking voltage cannot drop below around 11 volts or the ECM may not trigger. I think 10.4 might be the cutoff or close, but if you get lower than 11, often they won't light off. The AFM connector needs to be making good connection. An unhooked AFM will normally start, then die immediately, but I've had one fail to start with the AFM disconnected a time or two. Grounding problems are very common when one has been subjected to water intrusion. Even though the ECM is behind the glove box, there are several grounds that can give you fits. Always check them all out thoroughly. Should be one from battery to passenger side inner fender, one from cylinder head to firewall, one from near the starter to the frame, a couple behind the speedometer and possibly some from the ECM area to the body. Those are the critical locations for cranking and running. There are also grounds to the headlights if you figure out they aren't working.

There is a relay in the lower right kick panel, I think that is the one you mentioned checking. You can disassemble them and check inside for corrosion. If it sat in water, you will get battery voltage out of it, but it won't carry the amps necessary once a load is put on the circuit. If the distributor got water in it, and it is original age, the wiring inside may have degraded or shorted out. In mine, the inductive pickup coils failed with corrosion and it would intermittently start and run bad. New distributor fixed that problem. If the ignitor is getting weak, it will do the same thing. I believe there are troubleshooting procedures for the ignitor, but I don't remember them. The bad thing, is a distributor that shorts internally can smoke an ignitor and last I looked, a chinesium knockoff was almost $400. They haven't made a Toyota ignitor for many years, unless someone has figured out a subsitute. They are application specific for the 3FE, so you can't substitute one from a mini truck or a camry and make it work, or if it does, it probably won't work correctly.

Make sure the starter switch has not gone bad. If it is not energizing the ECM while cranking, nothing will work. A quick test is to see if you get spark in the split second you release the key from the cranking position back to the run position. Symptoms of that failure are common to most vehicles. You crank the motor over for several seconds and the engine lights off as soon as you release the key from the start position while the engine is turning over relatively quickly.
Thank you. I will start going through these. I could see a ground being missed. I do have the fsm. After a while I feel like I am looking at a foreign language. Appreciate it.
 
If I remember correctly the AFM wiring will allow / disallow spark.
 

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