Builds 86 Xtra Cab Build (4Wheelunderground 3 link front, 4 link rear and 3.4 swap) (3 Viewers)

[gnob]

Worst case look at fror steering arms.

 

[peacesells63]

I don't have any pics today. After pricing steel I decided to buy a FROR crossmember plate and the poly mount kit. I didn't get the entire crossmember and skid plate. Basically a builder kit. I get the main plate, the longer bolts and the mount bushings and hardware. I have enough steel on hand to fabricate the rest.

Even with the lower links up to the frame it looks like my oil pan clearance is fine. The drag link will hit the passenger frame rail that high up though so I may need to notch it. That will depend on IF my tires will even go that high in the wheel wells. To find that out I need some taller stands. The tall ones I need are under the 88. It's always something.

In order to flip my tie rod UNDER the steering arms I have a couple options. I can weld up the tapered holes, re drill and ream them from the bottom. I'd have to buy the reamer which is about $100 to my door.

Or I can get a Ruff Stuff (or others) 7/8" Heim tie rod kit and ream the holes to 3/4". I have that reamer for an almost press fit of the bolts.

I'm going to TRY to keep my TRE's. Mounting them under puts the tie rod REALLY close to the front of the diff though. Not sure if I'll have room for armor.

I have the tie rod under the arm on my diamond 9.5” front with hellfire knuckles, I had to run offset tre’s in order to clear the diff.

Not sure if anyone makes tapered inserts for Fj80 ends, but those work really well. Just drill a 7/8 hole and drop the tapered insert in.

 

[peacesells63]

Tapered Pitman Arm Insert | Marlin Crawler, Inc.

This is our Do-It-Yourself Tapered Pitman Arm Insert. It is compatible with 1979-95 Toyota Hilux tie rod end ball joints, 1986-95 pitman arm ball joints, and FJ60/80 Land Cruiser tie rod ends....

www.marlincrawler.com

These are a bit big at 1" od, but gives the idea.

 

[aztoyman]

Marlin Crawler has the tapered inserts. They are 1"OD but I can turn them in the lathe. Cheap too but not in stock I'm told.

I saw the offset joints as well.

I'll figure it out eventually.

Thanks for the input. Appreciated

 

[aztoyman]

I guess we were typing at the same time. I called them.

 

[aztoyman]

peacesells63, sounds like you have a pretty badass rig. I'm hoping this turns out as a very capable crawler.

I'll see how it goes with my steering. I'm trying to use what I have for budgetary reasons but I'll do what I gotta do.

I can always leave my current high steer on the 88.

 

[aztoyman]

gnob, I talked to Brian at 4Wheelunderground about the steering arms. Says he's seen them work reamed and flipped. He also said I could call FROR but that the flat arms don't clear the diff. I don't know how the lift of their standard arms are compared to mine. Thanks for the suggestion. I may be calling them if I can't make mine work.

Scott

 

[aztoyman]

I ordered the reamer last night. I can make a tapered insert on my lathe. If I ever decide to go with SRE's I can ream the bore for a bolt. I think my FJ 80 TRE's are going to work. Saves me some money.

Today I didn't want to disappoint yous guys that think I work fast. So I worked slow ALL day. Looks like I worked fast. Ha ha.

There's no way I'm going to sit around and do nothing while I wait for the crossmember parts and the reamer.

I put an old drive flange on the T-case and cut a piece of small channel I had for support. Tack welded it to the frame and the flange so I don't lose the proper centered location.

The instructions recommend that I get the truck up on stands at a frame height of 30" so there's room to cycle the suspension. I don't have anything that high. Ends up being about 36" at the front crossmember.

I went through my stash of steel and blocking and this is the best I could come up with. Beefed up an old bench grinder stand that I had two vises mounted on for fab work. I have my tallest Lincoln stands at the rear. Had to stack blocking on top. Also used a couple RV stands for extra support.

I moved the truck closer to the center of the bay. Raising it that high was risky with what I had to work with. Used two floor jacks, a bottle jack, engine crane and the RV jacks. I didn't want my wife to come home to find me smashed under my truck so I worked SLOW and careful. Ha ha.

It's good and solid so tomorrow I'm going to put the wheels on and stuff them up in the wheel wells so I can set my lower link length. I will trim sheet metal as needed.

 

[aztoyman]

I've got my tires up in the wheel wells. The lower links are too long if I use the 3 foot length that comes in the kit. Nothing mentioned in the instructions about cutting lower links to length.

So I either have to cut them shorter or move the lower brackets back if keeping the length is necessary for proper geometry. The instructions DO say the lower links bolt up to the T-case crossmember holes so it seems like that's where they're supposed to go.

Before I shorten some expensive tubing does anybody have any input? My axle is definitely too far forward so I have to do one or the other.

No answer at the shop since it's Veterans day. I sent an email to Brian. I'll wait until tomorrow before I cut the lower link tubing.

And THANK YOU veterans for your service!

 

[aztoyman]

Brian texted me back. So just for reference for anybody else in the future, cut the lower link tubing to needed length for YOUR truck. He said the longer tube is for people wanting more room for larger tires. The brackets go where the instructions say.

 

[aztoyman]

I'm going to do my best to show details on this that I haven't seen on other builds. I'm even going to share the answers I get from Brian for all my annoying questions. Maybe Brian's phone won't blow up as much if I post up details that aren't covered in the instructions.

I'm a pretty good mechanic but I'm no suspension engineer. So many questions will be asked.

 

[aztoyman]

I was worried about cutting my lower links too short so I cut them 2" longer than what centers the wheels in the fender wells. After this first mock-up I "might" shorten them to better center the wheels.

This is max stuff (both sides). The links are contacting the bottom of the frame. These are new 35" BFG KM3's.

I welcome any opinions on it being forward of center.

 

[aztoyman]

This is without the panhard bar and drag link on so the passenger side frame rail must be notched to get the links this high.

 

[aztoyman]

The oil pan is really not at risk. I'll have even more room if I shorten the links a couple inches.

The panhard bar is the highest component and it will hit the A/C compressor. So I need to raise the engine unless I want to limit up travel with the bump stops.

The axle side upper link bracket is REALLY close to the motor mount and the starter so raising the engine is probably best unless I limit up travel. The upper link is also super close to the slave cylinder. I have to use the lower bolt hole on the bracket.

I marked the center of the frame, axle housing and the center of the oil pan for reference. Without the panhard bar in place the axle shifts side to side. With the marks I can keep it relatively close to center as I move it.

 

[aztoyman]

So if I want max up travel I need to raise the engine, notch the frame, cut the hood and get a hood scoop.

Why would I go to this effort and expense to LIMIT my up travel to avoid a couple mods?? (I'm being sarcastic)

 

[aztoyman]

I also need to decide on my ride height. Recommendations?

 

[gnob]

I know alot of ifs guys built new front frame sections when going to 4 link.
That way you can get the motor where you want, go to a different motor mount. Don't have to deal with panhard interference.

That said, where you're at now, i would be doing something about the link hitting the frame there. It may be deceiving but it seems like that is a serious travel limiter.

 

[gnob]

Imu the point of links is typically to keep it low.
So shoot for ~24" frame height under the door.

 

[aztoyman]

Thanks gnob. My 88 with the SAS and leaf springs is taller than I liked. I think it is 27" to the bottom of the frame below the doors. I had to put a milk crate out so my wife could get in.

After looking at it, I actually did think about cutting off the front of the frame and making it out of tubing. I often have to reel myself back in. It's easy for a project to snowball out of control. Pretty soon I wouldn't have a Toyota pickup.

I'm going to do my best to get the max up-travel with my IFS frame. So some trimming is in order.

What do you think about the wheel being forward of center in the wheel well? I'm feeling compelled to move it back a little.

 

[gnob]

I personally like the axle forward. Better approach angle. But really if it doesn't rub the firewall its probably far enough forward.