81 fj43 won't start, just click click

[Nolacajun75]

Hello, hoping someone could help me out.
Have a 1981 fj43 with 2F from South America. No smog stuff. The problem I'm having is when I try to start the vehicle it just click click click and will not turn over. It started about a month ago and quickly went from an intermittent problem to a permanent one before it would sometimes turn over and sometimes click. Now it just clicks and will Not turned over.
I replaced the ignition switch, the lock cylinder and key, The starter with internal solenoid, And the starter solenoid that is mounted on the firewall inside the engine bay. It is obviously an aftermarket add-on by the previous owner so I just replaced it with a new one just in case.

I could push start it to pop the clutch and get it running. No problem and when it's running it drives and runs perfect. No issues at all
When I turn it off I can't get it to start back up again unless I push start it.

I think The way it's set up is when you turn the key to start it energizes the relay, closes the contacts and sends the 12 volt power supply directly to the starter solenoid.
The black wire with white line on the ignition switch goes to the Exciter point on the starter relay solenoid that is mounted on the firewall. The wire is good in intact. I checked continuity so in theory this wire should get power to close the relay but for some reason the wire on the ignition switch is not getting that 12 volt anymore but I'm not sure where it's supposed to come from.

If I go from direct positive on the battery to the solenoid on the starter it turns over no problem, If I jump the relay to close the contact it turns over no problem, on the ignition switch there is only 12 volts on the yellow black wire and it is always there. There is no voltage on any other contact. If I jump 12 volts direct from the positive battery to the black red point of the ignition switch it powers on like I am in accessory mode because the radio comes on then I am able to turn the switch to start and it turns over no problem.

I am at a loss and can't figure out what this problem is. I was told to check the fusible link but I am not sure where it is going from the battery to what so I'm not sure how to find it to check it or replace it. I'm not certain this is wired like it's supposed to be, so if this additional starter solenoid on the firewall is not needed, let me know and I could remove it and wire it differently without it.
I tried jumping it with a different vehicle thinking it might have been the battery still. Click click plus when I go direct it turns over so I'm pretty positive The battery is fine. All connections are new and clean. All grounds are new and clean.
What am I not seeing here? People help me out please. Thanks y'all

 

[Nolacajun75]

For the ignition switch, I am using a part from Toyota 84450-60070 this is the second brand new ignition switch I tried. I guess I could have gotten two bad ones in a row but am I using the right part number?

Also unrelated question, my water temperature sending unit went out and I bought Toyota part number 83420-20020 does anyone know if this is the correct number for my FJ?

 

[Nolacajun75]

Okay so I used my multimeter to see what the internals of the ignition switch are doing and I am not sure what it is supposed to do so I'm not sure if it is right or wrong.
With these key key in lock position, the black wire with white stripe checks for continuity and is measured at 96 ohms the black wire with red stripe to the yellow wire with blue stripe or to the red wire with black stripe beeps continuity only for a second but not staying beeping and measures 31 ohms. With the key position in ACC position, everything is exactly the same as above in the lock position. With the key in the on position, all wires check to each other is touching and continuity. The black wire with white stripe to each wire checks good but sits at 68 ohms on each. All other wires to each other. Check good but are at 2 ohms with the key and the start position. The blue wire with red stripe wire to all others is open all other wires to each other. Check good for continuity and are sitting at less than .1 ohm.

I'm not sure what this is telling me if my ignition switch is good or bad but this the second brand new switch I got from Toyota. I did verify it is the right part number I think but should I be buying the aftermarket versions? Maybe the stock one does not work?

Help please!

 

[John Smith]

You don't want to hear this, but rip all that out and start over. I count at least 5 unfused wires coming off your + terminal, and it looks like a heavy gauge wire to the starter? One of those 5 finds a ground and you have an electrical fire. Do you even know where those 5 wires go, or what they do? If not, trace and pull, and replace, ending at a auxiliary fuse box near your battery. (edit) Looking closer it appears you don't have a stock harness in this truck, it looks like a complere rewire. Coming from SA, I would remove everything and start over if it were me.

 

[Nolacajun75]

You don't want to hear this, but rip all that out and start over. I count at least 5 unfused wires coming off your + terminal, and it looks like a heavy gauge wire to the starter? One of those 5 finds a ground and you have an electrical fire. Do you even know where those 5 wires go, or what they do? If not, trace and pull, and replace, ending at a auxiliary fuse box near your battery.

Are you saying to just run all the wires the same way but just put an auxiliary fuse box in route for the wires going to the battery like the one going to the starter? I can I can fix and rewire anything just don't really know what's supposed to go where. This problem starting was intermittent first now is constant so it wasn't an immediate problem but now it is always there.

 

[John Smith]

Are you saying to just run all the wires the same way but just put an auxiliary fuse box in route for the wires going to the battery like the one going to the starter? I can I can fix and rewire anything just don't really know what's supposed to go where. This problem starting was intermittent first now is constant so it wasn't an immediate problem but now it is always there.

After looking at your pictures more critically, I would remove everything and start over with a completely new harness. Be it something off the shelf like a Painless generic kit. Or something else you source. I think you will be much better off knowing what wire goes where, and what it does. I could not imagine the hours with a power probe trying to figure that all out.

 

[Nolacajun75]

After looking at your pictures more critically, I would remove everything and start over with a completely new harness. Be it something off the shelf like a Painless generic kit. Or something else you source. I think you will be much better off knowing what wire goes where, and what it does. I could not imagine the hours with a power probe trying to figure that all out.

I hear that and agree, I still would like to know what the problem is though being that it was fine for 2 years and now it's not. I feel like I still needs to be found and fixed.

 

[John Smith]

I'm betting that solenoid is wired into both your starter and ignition circuits, and a wire in that harness has failed somewhere. Which is why you keep throwing parts at it with no difference in outcome. Hence why I would replace everything, or at least rid myself of that solenoid and at least completely rewire your ignition and starter circuits from the column to under the hood.

 

[pb4ugo]

If you're looking for a problem, the top lead that looks like speaker wire with the blue end appears to get hot at the batt connection. Finding and fixing the problem is not worth it. I agree with the others, rip it all out and wire properly. It's not worth taking the risk of a melt down.

 

[Nolacajun75]

Okay, that speaker wire is just going to the idle solenoid on the carburetor. When I got the vehicle it never even had a wire going to the carb.
So what's the proper way for the ignition to be wired. Does the fusible link go directly from the positive terminal of the battery to the ignition switch? Then the ignition switch output goes directly to the solenoid connector on the starter itself. Is that correct? If so, I'll remove the additional starter solenoid on the firewall.

 

[pb4ugo]

Okay, that speaker wire is just going to the idle solenoid on the carburetor. When I got the vehicle it never even had a wire going to the carb.
So what's the proper way for the ignition to be wired. Does the fusible link go directly from the positive terminal of the battery to the ignition switch? Then the ignition switch output goes directly to the solenoid connector on the starter itself. Is that correct? If so, I'll remove the additional starter solenoid on the firewall.

So, you used speaker wire?

 

[Nolacajun75]

So, you used speaker wire?

Yes it is. Read it well above the amperage of voltage required for this and The insulation is of better quality than single strand conductor wire from Napa or anywhere so it works just fine

 

[John McVicker]

I agree with removing the solenoid you’ve got there as well as all of the wiring from the key ignition to the starter.

I once had the exact some issues you have. My fix was simple, easy to do & solved the problem long term. Never surfaced again…never. This was on my FJ 62…but the principal is the same. No more click, click, click.

Go to auto parts store & buy a $15 four or five pin RELAY. You only use 4 pins but either a 4 or 5 pin will work. You will make 4 wire connections.

1) one from the ignition wire where you put in the key to start
2) one to a good ground
3) one directly to your battery positive
4) one directly to the starter solenoid

That’s it. I’m pretty sure I’ve described it correctly…it’s been 9 years now. If you go this way, do some google searches. It’s a very simple fix…you will be getting power directly from the battery to the solenoid and with fresh wires. Here’s a couple of pic.

 

[45Dougal]

I agree with removing the solenoid you’ve got there as well as all of the wiring from the key ignition to the starter.

I once had the exact some issues you have. My fix was simple, easy to do & solved the problem long term. Never surfaced again…never. This was on my FJ 62…but the principal is the same. No more click, click, click.

Go to auto parts store & buy a $15 four or five pin RELAY. You only use 4 pins but either a 4 or 5 pin will work. You will make 4 wire connections.

1) one from the ignition wire where you put in the key to start
2) one to a good ground
3) one directly to your battery positive
4) one directly to the starter solenoid

That’s it. I’m pretty sure I’ve described it correctly…it’s been 9 years now. If you go this way, do some google searches. It’s a very simple fix…you will be getting power directly from the battery to the solenoid and with fresh wires. Here’s a couple of pic.

View attachment 3663352

View attachment 3663353

You just told him to remove the solenoid which does exactly what you then told him to reconstruct with a cheaper part.

 

[45Dougal]

That speaker wire goes directly from the battery to the carburetor!?
So the idle solenoid is continually energized!?

You do have the wiring diagram right?
I lost track of how many times Coolerman's link was posted on here...

Cruiser Wiring

 

[Nolacajun75]

I agree with removing the solenoid you’ve got there as well as all of the wiring from the key ignition to the starter.

I once had the exact some issues you have. My fix was simple, easy to do & solved the problem long term. Never surfaced again…never. This was on my FJ 62…but the principal is the same. No more click, click, click.

Go to auto parts store & buy a $15 four or five pin RELAY. You only use 4 pins but either a 4 or 5 pin will work. You will make 4 wire connections.

1) one from the ignition wire where you put in the key to start
2) one to a good ground
3) one directly to your battery positive
4) one directly to the starter solenoid

That’s it. I’m pretty sure I’ve described it correctly…it’s been 9 years now. If you go this way, do some google searches. It’s a very simple fix…you will be getting power directly from the battery to the solenoid and with fresh wires. Here’s a couple of pic.

View attachment 3663352

View attachment 3663353

Thank you, I appreciate that. I think that is exactly what I have going on now though. The ignition switch on the steering column Powers solenoid on the firewall which then closes which allows the positive terminal that is connected to this solenoid to travel across the solenoid to the other side and feed directly to the starter solenoid. And it's been working fine for the last couple years and now it's not. I can't find anything broken or any bad old wires but I know there's something going on wiring somewhere. Started off slowly as an intermittent problem. Now it is stayed.
My extra solenoid on the firewall is only three terminals. The body is grounded itself. Maybe I should ground it better and see what happens. But it worked fine the way it was before and I just put a new solenoid in its place as well just in case. The problem I'm having is the wires are all connected and have continuity where I think they should be because it worked fine before. But for some reason when you turn the switch to start, the switch is not feeding the wire to the solenoid like it should.

This is actually a good way to wire it because it takes the wear off of this ignition switch which is weak.

 

[Nolacajun75]

I agree with removing the solenoid you’ve got there as well as all of the wiring from the key ignition to the starter.

I once had the exact some issues you have. My fix was simple, easy to do & solved the problem long term. Never surfaced again…never. This was on my FJ 62…but the principal is the same. No more click, click, click.

Go to auto parts store & buy a $15 four or five pin RELAY. You only use 4 pins but either a 4 or 5 pin will work. You will make 4 wire connections.

1) one from the ignition wire where you put in the key to start
2) one to a good ground
3) one directly to your battery positive
4) one directly to the starter solenoid

That’s it. I’m pretty sure I’ve described it correctly…it’s been 9 years now. If you go this way, do some google searches. It’s a very simple fix…you will be getting power directly from the battery to the solenoid and with fresh wires. Here’s a couple of pic.

View attachment 3663352

View attachment 3663353

Tomorrow I'm going to try to jump the switch connections where the ignition switch connects to the wire bundle. Doubt That fixes anything but at least it'll tell me if the connection is good.

If Dad don't fix it, I'm going to go to the store and get another solenoid and rewire everything. Is there any reason why I should get a three-point versus a four point if the housing is grounded

 

[Nolacajun75]

Only another note, while looking behind my gauge cluster in my dash, I noticed the small transistor looking thing that is mounted to the back of the gauge cluster with three wires coming out of it has two of the wires broken. Does anyone know where I can find this small transistor or whatever electronic part this is so I can replace it. So I sent pictures of the back of my gauge cluster because it looks very rough even though I doubt anything of my gauge could cause a starting problem but I could be wrong. I figured I would post it because it looks jacked.

 

[John McVicker]

@45Dougal totally agree with you, but for whatever reason it’s not working for @Nolacajun75 & he said that when he went directly from his battery to the starter solenoid it worked. So it’s not the starter, prob the solenoid or the wiring to/from the solenoid.
It’s not working now for whatever reason. Try the 4 pin relay & see it it works.

 

[Nolacajun75]

@45Dougal totally agree with you, but for whatever reason it’s not working for @Nolacajun75 & he said that when he went directly from his battery to the starter solenoid it worked. So it’s not the starter, prob the solenoid or the wiring to/from the solenoid.
It’s not working now for whatever reason. Try the 4 pin relay & see it it works.

The solenoid on the firewall is brand new. It does work because I could put direct positive. 12 volts jumped to the Exciter post and the relay closes allowing the 12 volts to go across and turn this starter. And obviously also if I jump from One side to the other of the relay on the firewall. The starter turns as well. And like you said, if I run a 12-volt positive direct to the starter solenoid it turns over as well.

I'm Lost in about to buy another starter solenoid relay with four post. Cut all my wires and rewire everything. I really don't want to do that if I don't have to though, but I'm about to. This should not be that difficult. This is easy