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And 37s because the fun police won't stop you there
80 vs 70 series differences
- Thread starter undecided
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We will trade you all the 37s we have for the rights to the 70 series. Write to your local government, I will do the same. We should be able to work this deal out quickly.And 37s because the fun police won't stop you there
If your just gonna bang it around on the weekends, why would you get into importing/ buying a non native truck? $$$
Unless you just really want one, in that case go for it.
But if all you want is a bad ass 4x4 for the weekends, get a fzj. I payed squat for my 93, and it’s an absolute beast for what I do with it. And it’s the only thing I drive around town when I’m home. Runs like a top. 1fz is not as gutless as it’s made out to be, I have no problem with it.
This is really the right answer here.
from OP: I’ll start with what I’m wanting it for.
I want the most reliable and capable option off road first and foremost: the 70 or 80 is pretty damn capable offroad, I don't buy that the 80 series will walk all over a 70 because it's leaf spring and leaf springs don't work as well offroad. hello @RustyNailJustin and KOH on OG leaf springs. Slap some lockers and good tires and either rig will go farther offroad that most people want to take them...and both are big whales that are going to smash up the body if you are going that hard. Both can be really reliable once you baseline them...neither are "new"
I’ll most just be using it for overlanding but I want the“just in case option” you know? Again a wash. Which one do you like more? Which space fits you better. Both 4 doors are similar in cargo space, a troopy gives some more options. Coils will ride smoother, but you can get a decent leaf spring ride.
I plan to keep the car forever and I’m a bit paranoid so I want something for SHTF/Bugging Out. Either will be something you can keep forever and will survive as well as possible if the SHTF. Simple diesels have arguably less electronics...my BJ74 doesn't even need a battery to start/run. Bump it and go... no need to worry about EMP attacks here
I want as much cargo space as possible and I’m gonna need the backseat for the kids. Again, either will work, A troopy will have more configurable space inside and you can get more legroom in the back if you want.
It boils down to what you want honestly. Either are strong and reliable and awesome at offroading. Either will get you out of dodge.
70 or 80?
You WILL have to plan a little more for 70's parts, but it's not that hard/bad to deal with as I said plenty of vendors on mud have a bunch of non-usa parts. Other than that, IMO it's a wash for what you want to do with it.
so the slow ones
A 70 series is a construction/landscapers truck in ever country but the USA. I wear headphones when driving a 70 series.
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Agreed, mine is not loud at all. I was surprised how quiet it was driving it. I was expecting 40 series loud and obnoxious...not even close. Is it 80 series quiet, no, but no where close needing earplugs.
- Thread starter
- #69
This is really the right answer here.
from OP: I’ll start with what I’m wanting it for.
I want the most reliable and capable option off road first and foremost: the 70 or 80 is pretty damn capable offroad, I don't buy that the 80 series will walk all over a 70 because it's leaf spring and leaf springs don't work as well offroad. hello @RustyNailJustin and KOH on OG leaf springs. Slap some lockers and good tires and either rig will go farther offroad that most people want to take them...and both are big whales that are going to smash up the body if you are going that hard. Both can be really reliable once you baseline them...neither are "new"
I’ll most just be using it for overlanding but I want the“just in case option” you know? Again a wash. Which one do you like more? Which space fits you better. Both 4 doors are similar in cargo space, a troopy gives some more options. Coils will ride smoother, but you can get a decent leaf spring ride.
I plan to keep the car forever and I’m a bit paranoid so I want something for SHTF/Bugging Out. Either will be something you can keep forever and will survive as well as possible if the SHTF. Simple diesels have arguably less electronics...my BJ74 doesn't even need a battery to start/run. Bump it and go... no need to worry about EMP attacks here
I want as much cargo space as possible and I’m gonna need the backseat for the kids. Again, either will work, A troopy will have more configurable space inside and you can get more legroom in the back if you want.
It boils down to what you want honestly. Either are strong and reliable and awesome at offroading. Either will get you out of dodge.
70 or 80?
You WILL have to plan a little more for 70's parts, but it's not that hard/bad to deal with as I said plenty of vendors on mud have a bunch of non-usa parts. Other than that, IMO it's a wash for what you want to do with it.
Thanks to both of you for those answers. I’ve pretty well decided on a 80 series but I do lean towards the diesel for the reliability and durability.
yes this likely won’t be a Daily driver because I want to keep it in good shape BUT the reliability I want for the coming zombie apocalypse
but seriously it’s just a just in case thing for me. The diesels seem to have an edge with reliability and require less maintenance. I wanna be able to put a ton of miles on it and not worry.i asked this because I genuinely didn’t know the answer between 70s and 80s because on other sites and in other forums I see tons of people swear that the 70s are better off-road and are more HD than the 80s but none have given me an actual explanation as to how or why and I figure once you start slapping aftermarket parts here and there it doesn’t really matter. That being said a troopy would be perfect and exactly what I want BUT being in the states I can’t even find one much less a decent one for a good price.
But now because someone mentioned a 6BT I’m considering that because there are tons of people in my area with them and I already know how to work on them to a degree. I’m still torn at the moment but torn on a new issue now
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A well kept 1fz is as reliable as the sunrise.
Just get a Cruiser and drive.
Hate to resurrect an old thread, but just had to reply and also ask a question or two.
Just a disclaimer: before I went into electronics & then later software, I was a machinery tech (mostly diesel ICEs - first in the military, later working summers as at JD dealers while going to college on the GI bill). Before the military, I worked off and on as a mech and other jobs. My point is, I do understand
Diesels vs. gasoline. If you throw out any electronics (especially computers), then IMO, diesels still win for a JIC/SHTF/backcountry rig for several reasons:
Simpler in concept; as long as you have fuel, compression and oil pressure - the diesel will keep running - so much so that you have to literally kill the engine by shutting off its fuel delivery (and sometimes even then, if the engine has run away, you need to at least try to strangle its air source).
Generally two of those three things are not the problem when a gasoline engine stops running (or runs so bad it is useless); it is either fuel mixture (carbs can be stubbornly finicky, especially with water crossings) or it is ignition (which can be fragile). More so if you throw electronics into the mix.
If the alternator rectifier blows a diode, count the hours before your gasoline engine no longer has the battery current to keep the ignition firing. For a properly setup diesel (replace the fuel shutoff solenoid with a cable) and the engine will keep running until it is out of fuel (assuming you have a mechanical fuel pump - my Dodge Cummins does, my Hilux does not - but I could rig a gravity feed system without too much hassle - I've done it before with a Datsun when there was water in the gasoline and the fuel line froze while on a mountain ski trip).
So, my philosophy for SHTF/backcountry vehicles is to keep them as simple as possible, and easy to repair (if possible) without having to deal with additional variables and preferably without electronics (especially computers). An all mechanical diesel helps in that regard. Other things like replacing/swapping out stuff like assisted axle engagement (like on my '98 Hilux and my '97 Dodge truck) with manual hubs will simplify things at the cost of convenience.
Same with replacing a solenoid/whatever to shut off fuel with a cable that does it manually. I am also thinking of using manually engaged lockers instead of air engaged lockers, or e-lockers or LSDs etc. - again, to simplify things.
With regards to the fact that Toyota diesel engines are fairly rare in the USA compared to their gasoline counterparts - yes, that is an issue. In a backcountry/overlanding situation, you generally are not going to be finding a parts store in the middle of nowhere anyway.
Regardless of location, if you throw a rod, wipe a bearing, swallow a valve, etc. - you are going to be tearing down either engine anyway, and it probably won't be the case that you can do an overnight fix for either engine.
Water pump? Ok - stock a spare (only $170), just like you probably would for a gas engine. Same with belts and hoses. I would probably also stock a spare alternator so that I have power brakes (the pump on the back of the alternator) - otherwise charging the battery can be done with solar panels or an external generator - maybe run the electric fuel pump on my Hilux.
Both my Dodge and my Hilux have manual transmissions. Low battery? Defunct starter? I can roll/push/pull the vehicle, pop the clutch and bump start the engine. Can do that with an auto-trans (at least not most of them currently made) and most automatics now have electronics in them. Which reminds me - preppers/et. al. worry way too much about EMP disabling their electronics - way overblown and an overused trope in PAW fiction. That said, reducing your dependence on electronics in what can be a crucial survival machine, is a good policy.
SHTF vehicles are not just for preppers; a dependable/reliable transport machine capable of traversing rough terrain can be important for most anybody, whether you are into self-reliance or not. People in the western USA have had to "bug out" (evacuate) from their homes due to forest fires. I personally had to evacuate, with 15 minutes notice, from my mountain home, 6 years ago on Labor Day weekend due to a human caused forest fire (fortunately, the local fire fighters prevented the fire from reaching my home - but it was only a mile away).
There are also wind storms, floods, even volcanoes and earthquakes/tsunamis (each of these are not uncommon on the west coast).
Which segues to another aspect of having an overlanding/camping vehicle; they can serve as a backup shelter.
All that said, my daily driver - a '14 BMW X1 AWD SUV - is gasoline fueled, has multiple computers controlling almost everything. I really like it and it has been fairly reliable (except the times it locked me inside the car because of an electronics short in the "comfort access" doors - which I have since had fixed).
My kids Audi Q5 has proved supremely unreliable - every year they spend several thousand $ fixing some computer/electronic fault, and it has more than once stranded them (and me once) requiring a tow, and often days if not weeks in the repair shop (where is it now as I type this). Could I fix it? Maybe, I not only have mechanical training/experience, I also have a EE degree and I made a career from programming computers, so I understand the basics. But I don't have the diagnostic equipment (at a least not the really good stuff the specialists have in their shops), and I don't have their experience with today's German cars - so it would be an iffy thing, and I don't have the parts either (nor would it make financial sense to have spares because the electronics modules are expensive).
------
So, I am interested in what the OP wound up with as a vehicle?
Just a disclaimer: before I went into electronics & then later software, I was a machinery tech (mostly diesel ICEs - first in the military, later working summers as at JD dealers while going to college on the GI bill). Before the military, I worked off and on as a mech and other jobs. My point is, I do understand
Diesels vs. gasoline. If you throw out any electronics (especially computers), then IMO, diesels still win for a JIC/SHTF/backcountry rig for several reasons:
Simpler in concept; as long as you have fuel, compression and oil pressure - the diesel will keep running - so much so that you have to literally kill the engine by shutting off its fuel delivery (and sometimes even then, if the engine has run away, you need to at least try to strangle its air source).
Generally two of those three things are not the problem when a gasoline engine stops running (or runs so bad it is useless); it is either fuel mixture (carbs can be stubbornly finicky, especially with water crossings) or it is ignition (which can be fragile). More so if you throw electronics into the mix.
If the alternator rectifier blows a diode, count the hours before your gasoline engine no longer has the battery current to keep the ignition firing. For a properly setup diesel (replace the fuel shutoff solenoid with a cable) and the engine will keep running until it is out of fuel (assuming you have a mechanical fuel pump - my Dodge Cummins does, my Hilux does not - but I could rig a gravity feed system without too much hassle - I've done it before with a Datsun when there was water in the gasoline and the fuel line froze while on a mountain ski trip).
So, my philosophy for SHTF/backcountry vehicles is to keep them as simple as possible, and easy to repair (if possible) without having to deal with additional variables and preferably without electronics (especially computers). An all mechanical diesel helps in that regard. Other things like replacing/swapping out stuff like assisted axle engagement (like on my '98 Hilux and my '97 Dodge truck) with manual hubs will simplify things at the cost of convenience.
Same with replacing a solenoid/whatever to shut off fuel with a cable that does it manually. I am also thinking of using manually engaged lockers instead of air engaged lockers, or e-lockers or LSDs etc. - again, to simplify things.
With regards to the fact that Toyota diesel engines are fairly rare in the USA compared to their gasoline counterparts - yes, that is an issue. In a backcountry/overlanding situation, you generally are not going to be finding a parts store in the middle of nowhere anyway.
Regardless of location, if you throw a rod, wipe a bearing, swallow a valve, etc. - you are going to be tearing down either engine anyway, and it probably won't be the case that you can do an overnight fix for either engine.
Water pump? Ok - stock a spare (only $170), just like you probably would for a gas engine. Same with belts and hoses. I would probably also stock a spare alternator so that I have power brakes (the pump on the back of the alternator) - otherwise charging the battery can be done with solar panels or an external generator - maybe run the electric fuel pump on my Hilux.
Both my Dodge and my Hilux have manual transmissions. Low battery? Defunct starter? I can roll/push/pull the vehicle, pop the clutch and bump start the engine. Can do that with an auto-trans (at least not most of them currently made) and most automatics now have electronics in them. Which reminds me - preppers/et. al. worry way too much about EMP disabling their electronics - way overblown and an overused trope in PAW fiction. That said, reducing your dependence on electronics in what can be a crucial survival machine, is a good policy.
SHTF vehicles are not just for preppers; a dependable/reliable transport machine capable of traversing rough terrain can be important for most anybody, whether you are into self-reliance or not. People in the western USA have had to "bug out" (evacuate) from their homes due to forest fires. I personally had to evacuate, with 15 minutes notice, from my mountain home, 6 years ago on Labor Day weekend due to a human caused forest fire (fortunately, the local fire fighters prevented the fire from reaching my home - but it was only a mile away).
There are also wind storms, floods, even volcanoes and earthquakes/tsunamis (each of these are not uncommon on the west coast).
Which segues to another aspect of having an overlanding/camping vehicle; they can serve as a backup shelter.
All that said, my daily driver - a '14 BMW X1 AWD SUV - is gasoline fueled, has multiple computers controlling almost everything. I really like it and it has been fairly reliable (except the times it locked me inside the car because of an electronics short in the "comfort access" doors - which I have since had fixed).
My kids Audi Q5 has proved supremely unreliable - every year they spend several thousand $ fixing some computer/electronic fault, and it has more than once stranded them (and me once) requiring a tow, and often days if not weeks in the repair shop (where is it now as I type this). Could I fix it? Maybe, I not only have mechanical training/experience, I also have a EE degree and I made a career from programming computers, so I understand the basics. But I don't have the diagnostic equipment (at a least not the really good stuff the specialists have in their shops), and I don't have their experience with today's German cars - so it would be an iffy thing, and I don't have the parts either (nor would it make financial sense to have spares because the electronics modules are expensive).
------
So, I am interested in what the OP wound up with as a vehicle?
Agreed . What did the op buy ? Haha
Maybe, I have only driven 2013 and newer.
I think I wasn't forthcoming in why I am interested; I am thinking of giving my well worn (been in two accidents, one I was surprised the insurance didn't total it, the second was a fender bender and it got a few scrapes - plus it is approaching 125K miles) but still quite reliable X1 to my daughter to be the primary commute car for my son-in-law (daughter works at home) instead of their Q5.
I really like the X1 (easy/fun to drive, comfortable, I love the styling), but I put only maybe 100-200 miles on it per month - it sits in my driveway 99% of the time, for weeks on end. I pay more for insurance than I do for fuel/tires/maintenance and my insurance is quite reasonable.
OTOH, I have the Hilux which I am doing (very slowly) an overland build on. When it is done I will start on my Dodge which needs a LOT of work before I do anything related to overlanding to it.
I would like to have a SWB Land Cruiser. Ideally I would like kind of a RestoMod 40 series where it has the classic 40 style, but on a 70 or 80 series chassis. I am 73 YO, wearing out myself, and I need at least power steering/brakes and A/C to not wear me out driving it. But such a rig would be more than I currently want to spend on something I will be driving very little and for only another decade or so (I think once I reach my early to mid 80s I may not want or be able to drive anything - if I am still alive). I could buy a post '82 40 series to get what I need without mods - but those are rare.
So I may just get a SWB 70 2/3 door series LC. I don't need the larger 80 4 door body - 99% of the time it is only me, and if I need to haul something, I can haul it with the HIlux.
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I forgot to say that I am NOT a fan of shoehorning a Cummins 4BT (much less a 6BT) into any LC. They are just too heavy and the power curve is all wrong for a relatively light vehicle like the LC (my Dodge weighs 2X what most LCs weigh). The Cummins BT is best at 2K RPM, maybe a little more. The BT needs a close ratio transmission; it does best with at least 6 ratios, preferably 8-10 (and it really doesn't need a "granny" gear).
The diesels that go into LCs live at 2K to 4K RPM and get there easily (except, for some, top gear will only get to max RPM on a flat road, not up a hill). The transmissions don't have the "granny gear" nor do they need it. They do ok with 5 ratios, although a 6 speed certainly would help. Off-road I am satisfied with the 5L in my Hilux, it is on the road going up hills I wish I had a turbo - especially at elevation.
The diesels that go into LCs live at 2K to 4K RPM and get there easily (except, for some, top gear will only get to max RPM on a flat road, not up a hill). The transmissions don't have the "granny gear" nor do they need it. They do ok with 5 ratios, although a 6 speed certainly would help. Off-road I am satisfied with the 5L in my Hilux, it is on the road going up hills I wish I had a turbo - especially at elevation.
A post 2000 73 series would have everything you want including coil springs in the front for a better ride and now eligible to import.
IMO way cooler more room better ride and no conversion needed
Available in gas or diesel pick your poison.
IMO way cooler more room better ride and no conversion needed
Available in gas or diesel pick your poison.
