80 in ice & snow + question re CDL
- Thread starter lovetoski
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Man, I agree. I spent years in vehicle development and reading this is like watching 5 guys simultaneously playing tennis on the same court with no identified opponent and some using tennis rackets, some hitting golf balls with lacrosse sticks and some kicking a volleyball around. There literally is no true discourse taking place here.
DougM
DougM
Pretty much happens in any thread that both ST and myself post in, guaranteed if Walking Eagle is there too.
No, but sumo did, and I was referencing that, sorry for the confusion.
yep, we are responsible for more. More red cars are in accidents than any other color car too.
When you're in 4lo, you're going slowly, that's the short answer. You're also probably in a really low traction situation as opposed to hwy speed on patchy stuff. Which is pretty much what I stated at the begining as what I use. CDL off at hwy speed, on in super low traction situation.
Pretty much happens in any thread that both ST and myself post in, guaranteed if Walking Eagle is there too.
Firetruck and Walking Eagle - crusaiders for truth!
Ok. I'll buy that. CDL on in super low traction. Thats pretty much what we have had in Seattle the last week.
Maybe so but didn't this thread start out asking about stability with the CDL on, and not about breaking? Si...I theen so.
Which is why I appreciated you agreeing with my 1st paragraph of all this crap.
...And I still do.....
DougM
It did, but engaging CDL means that you lose ABS, one affects the other, hence the related discussion. Some believe running with CDL engaged and ABS disabled is worth it, others think that having ABS disabled is not worth any percieved benefit of running with CDL locked...
Just out of curiousity, what does Toyota recomend for the '91's and '92's that had the CDL stock. When does it say to use it?
I don't know the answer for Toyota, but I had a 99 full size Montero and it had a multi mode 4wd system that had 4L, 4H, 4H locked, and 2H. The instructions were to use 4H for slippery roads, 4H locked for added traction on roads, and low range for unimproved roads and rough tracks where added torque was needed. IIRC, the 4H locked position could be activated at freeway speeds.
HTH
HTH
- Thread starter
- #54
I apologize for starting a thread that got so much blood flowing...but I have learned a bit.
No I don't believe I can outthink the ABS computer. Actually, I really like how ABS works in most all situations - rain, snow, ice. Being able to steer while slowing down is really nice.
What really prompted me to pose the original questions was a drive earlier this week up into the mountains to ski for a few hours. Highway traffic was pretty light - I was not worried about stopping. Frankley I was more interested in getting to the ski area as fast as possible, within the limits of safe driving. I was passing some vehicles, and some were passing me. One of the vehicles that passed me was a Ford F150 pulling a drift boat. I was surprised.
Road surface was recently plowed, with a mixed base of ice/hardpack, and 1-2 inches of loose snow on top. General behaviour of my 80 was to wander a bit - it went straight, but wiggled as it went straight. Since it's an interstate, not a lot of curves, and even those are long radius.
It seemed to me that under similar circumstances my 60 (locked center, but both axles open) tracked better - ie didn't wiggle. I drive this interstate in winter a lot, evenly divided between both trucks - so I believe my comparison between the two is valid.
That observation is what prompted my question.
I'm going to install a CDL and see how it works. Might be better, might not. It'll be a cheap experiment. Thanks for the posts - hope I didn't unduely deplete the karma bank.
Peace out.
Has Sumotoy every driven (daily) a locked, transfer case (no center diff) rig?
In poor traction?
In good traction?
Ever built anything?
Sumotoy sounds like a refuge from "Office Space" to me. Do you know where your stapler is?
Best,
Cockroach
'75 CJ-5 (frame up modified by yours truly)
'84 CJ-7 (SM420/D300 before u knew what crawling was)
'96 Taco (sleeper, locked and DD)
'87 Sami (best $3k ever spent)
'97 FZJ 80 (all of the above, with style)
Now go flog yourself..........jerkoff
In poor traction?
In good traction?
Ever built anything?
Sumotoy sounds like a refuge from "Office Space" to me. Do you know where your stapler is?
Best,
Cockroach
'75 CJ-5 (frame up modified by yours truly)
'84 CJ-7 (SM420/D300 before u knew what crawling was)
'96 Taco (sleeper, locked and DD)
'87 Sami (best $3k ever spent)
'97 FZJ 80 (all of the above, with style)
Now go flog yourself..........jerkoff
Grench
SILVER Star
Just for giggles... Have you checked your rod ends lately? If they're worn, they can cause a loose or uncertain feeling to the steering.
Grench
SILVER Star
Uncalled for in a technical discussion.
Are you saying that slipage isn't when static friction is overcome and dynamic friction occurs?
Ski,
Before the tie rods - pretty solid on the 80s - I'd check for slack in your front wheel bearings and also ask when the last front axle repack was done that included new knuckle bearings. Knuckle bearings that are worn will allow wander as they locate the entire steering knuckle.
As for Sumo's comment that tires are always slipping, this is correct. In fact as an example, a contact patch achieves its maximum braking grip from tension along its longitudinal (fore/aft) axis. The contact patch experiences slippage at the front of the contact patch and progressively less toward the rear, with the tread blocks rebounding as they go off the rear of the contact patch and lose contact with the ground again. That's why max braking grip is achieved right before lockup (slight sliding) - the tension between front and rear of the contact patch is maxed. Reverse this for accelerating.
So, to say the tires are always slipping is correct. Literally, in a mile of freeway driving on dry pavement, the tires may rotate a few more revolutions during the mile from slippage. That's how wear occurs, actually. Same with cornering - even mildly. There's a slip angle between the intended path of the tire and the actual path of a couple degrees. Corner harder and that slip angle grows until it's huge (severe understeer).
This is all way beyond the original question, but it's a fascinating topic on many levels.
DougM
Before the tie rods - pretty solid on the 80s - I'd check for slack in your front wheel bearings and also ask when the last front axle repack was done that included new knuckle bearings. Knuckle bearings that are worn will allow wander as they locate the entire steering knuckle.
As for Sumo's comment that tires are always slipping, this is correct. In fact as an example, a contact patch achieves its maximum braking grip from tension along its longitudinal (fore/aft) axis. The contact patch experiences slippage at the front of the contact patch and progressively less toward the rear, with the tread blocks rebounding as they go off the rear of the contact patch and lose contact with the ground again. That's why max braking grip is achieved right before lockup (slight sliding) - the tension between front and rear of the contact patch is maxed. Reverse this for accelerating.
So, to say the tires are always slipping is correct. Literally, in a mile of freeway driving on dry pavement, the tires may rotate a few more revolutions during the mile from slippage. That's how wear occurs, actually. Same with cornering - even mildly. There's a slip angle between the intended path of the tire and the actual path of a couple degrees. Corner harder and that slip angle grows until it's huge (severe understeer).
This is all way beyond the original question, but it's a fascinating topic on many levels.
DougM
PS - interestingly, the longer the contact patch in the fore/aft direction, the higher the maximum braking capability. Ditto acceleration. This is one of the reasons I preach keeping tire size close to stock rather than having 35s under a daily driver.
DougM
DougM
