80 in ice & snow + question re CDL

[IdahoDoug]

Darwood,

Sorry, missed your question but once again Walking Eagle is dead on with his reply. If there were a 275 35" tire its contact patch would be slightly longer, all else equal. This is simply due to the larger diameter with same width.

This is one of the reasons folks who use skinnier tires are often pleasantly surprised how well they do offroad in a variety of conditions.

DougM

 

[MTJohn]

My "poverty pack" 94 with factory CDL (and no ABS) has the same wording in the owners' manual.

 

[Walking Eagle]

My "poverty pack" 94 with factory CDL (and no ABS) has the same wording in the owners' manual.

I aparently made a bad assumption that all '93-97's had abs and no CDL. I stand corrected - but happy the wording is the same as the '91-92.

 

[Walking Eagle]

I believe the manual is pretty clear that locking CDL does not compromise safety of steering control. I say don't 'make one up', the owners manual doesn't support the statement.

ST

I believe you owe me an appology for claiming I'm making anything up. The previous information was 'verbatum' from 92LC_good2go's manual. I didn't make it up, and take the insinuation that I did make it up as an unwaranted personal attack.

 

[GAS-A-LOT!]

This might be a little off but I remember my first time at azuza canyon, Also my first time wheel'n & my first time wheel'n my cruiser, I did not use the DL at all. And she did not get stuck @ all . Significant because at the same river crossing a heep, a silverado & an S10 got stuck with water in their interior(can someone say....amplifier soup? ) While we crossed just fine... oh and loose soil/gravel/mud where not a problem.. the funny thing is....I did not even know what the DL was for . So I tell you now!!!

OFF ROADING FOR DUMMIES.......


CHAPTER ONE

BUY A LAND CRUISER!

CHAPTER TWO

ENOUGH SAID!

THE END.

 

[Darwood]

Now as far as gravel and loose soil goes I use my CDL not for the traction but to turn off ABS. ABS is great but it tries to keep your wheels from sliding and in gravel this pretty much amounts to the brakes not being applied. In those situations it's much better to lock up the brakes and let the tires plow into the gravel. Same could be said about thick snow. Tires on the other hand don't really plow ice that well (without studs or chains) so locking them up in that situation just makes for a great toboggan.

 

[FirstToy]

I aparently made a bad assumption that all '93-97's had abs and no CDL. I stand corrected - but happy the wording is the same as the '91-92.

you can also look in the new 4Runner manual- don't use CDL on pavement. GX470=same.

 

[Walking Eagle]

Now as far as gravel and loose soil goes I use my CDL not for the traction but to turn off ABS. ABS is great but it tries to keep your wheels from sliding and in gravel this pretty much amounts to the brakes not being applied. In those situations it's much better to lock up the brakes and let the tires plow into the gravel. Same could be said about thick snow. Tires on the other hand don't really plow ice that well (without studs or chains) so locking them up in that situation just makes for a great toboggan.

agree 100%. sand, gravel, deep snow, anywhere you can dig in and push material in front of the tire ABS bad. Anywhere you can't, dry pavement, wet pavement, most snow, and ice, ABS good. Do I really have to repeat what you just said to agree with you? doh!

 

[Darwood]

Do I really have to repeat what you just said to agree with you? doh!

hehe

In Death Valley I learned my lesson about ABS. We were going kind fast down a single lane gravel road when all of a sudden a dip occurred that I slammed on the brakes for. Well the truck didn't stop as much as I wanted it to. I could feel the ABS kick in, but nothing much was happening in the slowing department. Pretty much it slowed like it was sliding on ice. Luckily nothing bad happened other than needing to change my shorts. Turned off the ABS for the rest of the gravel.

 

[Walking Eagle]

Sorry, missed your question but once again Walking Eagle is dead on with his reply. DougM

I'm liking you more and more

Course, I was also thinking after I posted that, that although the contact patch is the same dimensionally, larger tires will give a bigger lever arm on the brakes, so that will reduce the effectiveness of the brakes, as well as the greater inertia of the heavier tire.

 

[Darwood]

I'm liking you more and more

Course, I was also thinking after I posted that, that although the contact patch is the same dimensionally, larger tires will give a bigger lever arm on the brakes, so that will reduce the effectiveness of the brakes, as well as the greater inertia of the heavier tire.

Yeah, the rotating mass is what effects brakes the most. Contact patches etc. don't mean a thing if your brakes are so overtaxed that they can't even lock up the wheels. It's a case of more than enough traction... just not enough clamping force.

 

[Grench]

* Driving on roads where the road surface is pitted or has other differences in surface height"

I belive the last is in regards to crowned roads. Unfortunately for FZJ80 owners, the only way to gain advantage is to add the CDL switch or add an ABS off switch.

So, 1+1 = 9? Where do you get to crowned roads from a question of spot surface heights where the wheels are momentarily airborne? I think they are referring to pitting, bumps, pavement drops, etc... and not a simply crowned road or the like.

Also, there is nothing there that states "Run this vehicle with the CDL on all the time." The default scenario is with it off. Just because the manual does not expressly state to leave it off in a given circumstance is no reason to claim that it should be turned on.

 

[Walking Eagle]

Also, there is nothing there that states "Run this vehicle with the CDL on all the time." The default scenario is with it off. Just because the manual does not expressly state to leave it off in a given circumstance is no reason to claim that it should be turned on.

Actually, on the years that came with CDL, it says to only run it on loose surfaces. I'm guessing Sumo has disapeared for a while....

 

[cockroach]

That's good, it might behoove Sumo to DO more and read less.

 

[SUMOTOY]

Sorry to have missed all the fun. I'm trying to get the Steamboat Ice Event ready. More misunderstanding of AWD seems to be here....

Sumo, you realize that '93-97 that had optional front and rear lockers DID NOT come from the factory with the CDL, and therefore YOUR manual HAS NO REASON TO MENTION IT! That's why it's so nice to have 92LC_good2go's info. from her manual! She's been nice enough to post it for us, try reading it. I'd place a heafty wager that Had the '93-97's had the CDL, they also would have had the same wording. No need for it the way it comes from the factory, as if you're in 4 low, the only place the factory settings put CDL on, you're obviously not at hwy speeds.

As you found out, the non abs 93 and 94 trucks had CDL switches. My manual mentions it, because ABS was an option. What is *excluded* is any red caution of "excessive understeer" or "loss of steering control" one finds in the front/rear locker section. I think excessive understeer is overrated, I can drive my CDL on in the city until it's time to do a really tight maneuver. Excessive tire wear on my easy to wear blizzacks appears not to be a factor.

Think there might be a reason VW stopped using Syncro and went to 4-motion? Think there might be a reason BMW shelved the system from the 325ix of the 80's, and uses a AWD approach now?

Hunh???? What reason? You have a basic misunderstanding of these systems. 4 -motion is synchro, it's just a Haldex coupler vs a Viscous coupler. They are both FWD vehicles that couple the rear axle, neither has a center diff. They both operate the same, the haldex is just an electronic VC. And the 330ix uses the same driveline (many of the parts interchange) of the 325ix, adding traction control and stability control. I'd be very interested to hear what "reasons" you refer to?

ST

 

[Walking Eagle]

Hunh???? What reason? You have a basic misunderstanding of these systems. 4 -motion is synchro, it's just a Haldex coupler vs a Viscous coupler. They are both FWD vehicles that couple the rear axle, neither has a center diff. They both operate the same, the haldex is just an electronic VC. And the 330ix uses the same driveline (many of the parts interchange) of the 325ix, adding traction control and stability control. I'd be very interested to hear what "reasons" you refer to?

ST

you obviously don't know anything about syncro, which is NOT the same as 4motion, or the old 325ix. Go do some reading, then come back, till then, you don't know enough.

http://www.geocities.com/passat_syncro/englishgeschichte2.html
http://bork.hampshire.edu/~josiah/vw/current/syncrosystem
http://www.duvekot.com/QSW/qswCD786.htm

 

[CoveredInRedMud]

Just read through the thread tonight, and have a classic dumb question: When I shift into 4L on my 1995 FZJ80, a center diff lock light comes on, and the steering is affected in tight turns as expected. Is this bascially the same as the CDL switch? Also, any idea if this action turns off my ABS in this model? (my ABS light has been on for years, but I can feel it function fine). - - My more pressing question is that I am considering a 2005 FJ100, and I see from the specs that I can't choose to have only RR diff lock, or even front and back diff locks on that model. I can just choose to turn on/off CDL. I've been told that I will lose the real off-road tight spot capability of my current setup if I go with the A-TRAC and CDL-only model. Any thoughts? It sounds like I'd be letting the computer do the traction-deciding work for me with the newer setup... Thanks already for the info on this thread...

 

[CoveredInRedMud]

Any thoughts? It sounds like I'd be letting the computer do the traction-deciding work for me with the newer setup...

Guess I should add that I have the rear diff lock and also rear/front diff lock function on my 1995... Thanks

 

[NaterGator]

I believe the A-TRAC system using the brakes (independently) to control wheelspin when you are cocking one about in the air. It is no substitute for lockers.

When you engage 4L the CDL locks exactly as the switch would. The only difference is that you are in low range, not high. Your ABS would be turned off, but I wouldn't let that ABS light stay on indefinitely, it's telling you something is wrong for a reason.

 

[CoveredInRedMud]

When you engage 4L the CDL locks exactly as the switch would. The only difference is that you are in low range, not high. Your ABS would be turned off, but I wouldn't let that ABS light stay on indefinitely, it's telling you something is wrong for a reason.

Looks like it's like having the CDL switch, but I can't activate it in 4H. So that solves the question for me about running CDL at highway speeds that was being discussed earlier.

Thanks too for the advice about getting the ABS checked. The report a couple of years ago from TheToyStore in Salt Lake City was that the ABS was OK, just the signal light circuit was bad. I decided to live with the light on...