550 / 250 or an Inoes? (3 Viewers)

[gocougs]

I have been a loyal Toyota/Lexus owner for the past 25 years, and I have owned various models, including the 62, 80, GX, FJ, LX, Tacoma, and Tundra. I am currently driving a 2010 LX with 185k. I have always loved the look of the 70 series, and I loved my 62, but I sold her when we had kids because I wanted a vehicle with more modern safety features. In 2020, I saw the Ineos Grenadier for the first time and loved the look and off-road ability. I have taken a few on and off-road test drives, and it is a great rig that drives like a tank, very similar to the LX. I was one of the first to put a deposit down on the Grenadier, and my rig is parked at the Port of Tacoma, waiting to be delivered to the dealership in Seattle. I could pick it up by Christmas. I am a fan of Toyota and Lexus's reliability, so I struggle to decide whether to pull the trigger on the unknown Grenadier.

 

[Jstawgn]

Reliability is definitely unknown.
Dealer networks is definitely a big concern for me.
If this just your lifestyle vehicles and you don't need to rely on it on daily basis then it should be no concern. It definitely cool.

 

[Phillyd2]

While it's understandable to be cautious of 'Designed In Britain, Built-In France', if the company disappears the day after you drive it home almost all of the major components should be easily serviced since they outsource so many of them. The BMW B58 engine is the obvious one.

 

[tacoshawn]

I love the idea of the Grenadier. As others have said if it isn’t a daily give it a go. If it proves robust and there is service reasonably close it could be great.

For me, I’ve had my share of fun with maintaining lower volume auto (Jaguar, sold) and motorcycle (Triumph, still have) brands with limited dealer networks. Waiting weeks for parts or service gets old even with other vehicles available to drive while waiting.

I think the Grenadier looks great, btw.

 

[carboncycles]

I don't mind being an early adopter with the caveat it's with a reputable or larger company/brand. INEOS has been all over the sporting world with their brand sponsorship in cycling and others.

Texas had a few owners meet n greets and the feedback has been positive, but w/out a dedicated network for service..it's a hard pass for me.

 

[M1911]

Most new car brands don't survive. It is an open question as to whether Ineos will become profitable and be a going concern 10 years from now.

 

[Rednexus]

TBH - and I may get flamed for this - I'd buy a Wrangler over a Ineos if I was in the market for a solid axle 4x4. Yes the Ineos is more exclusive/interesting and probably better engineered, yes the Wrangler has it's somewhat negative aura/connotations, but the faults of the Wrangler are well-known, anyone can work on them, vast aftermarket support, and you'll have any part available cheaply for decades into the future. A simple case of "the Devil you know".

Otherwise, stick with your gut and buy a Toyota. If Ineos makes it they'll be sorted 5-10 years from now. But this coming from someone who is rarely an early adopter of anything.

 

[Phillyd2]

TBH - and I may get flamed for this - I'd buy a Wrangler over a Ineos if I was in the market for a solid axle 4x4. Yes the Ineos is more exclusive/interesting and probably better engineered, yes the Wrangler has it's somewhat negative aura/connotations, but the faults of the Wrangler are well-known, anyone can work on them, vast aftermarket support, and you'll have any part available cheaply for decades into the future. A simple case of "the Devil you know".

Otherwise, stick with your gut and buy a Toyota. If Ineos makes it they'll be sorted 5-10 years from now. But this coming from someone who is rarely an early adopter of anything.

What part of the Ineos couldn't be easily serviced in any mid sized town in North America? Or which part would be hard to source if the company went out of business?

 

[Rednexus]

What part of the Ineos couldn't be easily serviced in any mid sized town in North America? Or which part would be hard to source if the company went out of business?

Every single part on the vehicle . Seriously, if I bent a tie rod end wheeling and rolled in to my local tire/suspension/repair shop, they wouldn't even know what the Ineos is, where to get parts for it, or even a service manual to work on it. I did a quick check and Ineos is not listed as a manufacturer on Rock Auto, O'Reilly, or Autozone. If they make it I'm sure that will be different in 5-10 years. If they don't make it you'd be SOL.

 

[Phillyd2]

Every single part on the vehicle . Seriously, if I bent a tie rod end wheeling and rolled in to my local tire/suspension/repair shop, they wouldn't even know what the Ineos is, where to get parts for it, or even a service manual to work on it. I did a quick check and Ineos is not listed as a manufacturer on Rock Auto, O'Reilly, or Autozone. If they make it I'm sure that will be different in 5-10 years. If they don't make it you'd be SOL.

They won't need to know what a Ineos is. They only need to know the part they are working on. Hopefully they do (or they should) offer all that cross reference info with the vehicle. I absolutely wouldn't consider one without it, not that I'm actually considering one.

The B58 engine will be able to be worked on 30 years from now. The same for everything else as I doubt they have any / many proprietary parts at all.

 

[Jetboy]

What part of the Ineos couldn't be easily serviced in any mid sized town in North America? Or which part would be hard to source if the company went out of business?

Find a rear axle shaft and let me know where and how much it costs. Or a pinion bearing. Or a front control arm bushing. Or a replacement window actuator. Or a set of replacement airbags.

I'd bet not one of those is readily available anywhere in the world let alone a midsize town in rural Mexico.

 

[Phillyd2]

Find a rear axle shaft and let me know where and how much it costs. Or a pinion bearing. Or a front control arm bushing. Or a replacement window actuator. Or a set of replacement airbags.

I'd bet not one of those is readily available anywhere in the world let alone a midsize town in rural Mexico.

Who makes them and what are the part numbers? IF Ineos makes them or they are some extremely obscure then you kids may have a legit point.

 

[Rednexus]

They won't need to know what a Ineos is. They only need to know the part they are working on. Hopefully they do (or they should) offer all that cross reference info with the vehicle. I absolutely wouldn't consider one without it, not that I'm actually considering one.

The B58 engine will be able to be worked on 30 years from now. The same for everything else as I doubt they have any / many proprietary parts at all.

Finding a mechanic in rural Missouri, where I live, who is familiar with working on even a BMW engine is difficult if not impossible. Out here in the sticks it's mostly domestic vehicles running around - plus some of the big Japanese brands - and that's true over pretty much all of North America once you get outside of the major metro areas. European cars are all but absent. These guys may be good mechanics but will have never come across an Ineos before and would have no idea how to even order parts for it (as I found last night - the brand won't show up in their systems). Some might even refuse to work on it since the good ones are all slammed and short staffed. A broken vehicle that can't be easily worked on is a $100K paperweight.

Looks like I'm kind of mid-way between Ineos dealers in Chicago, Atlanta, and Dallas, meaning a major problem or warranty for me could result in a 400 mile tow to a dealership willing to touch it, or calling closer BMW dealers and independent European car shops and seeing if they'd be willing to work on it (and most of them are still a 80-90 mile tow). Since Inoes has virtually no dealership coverage in the north central US, if you had a problem driving between say Minneapolis and Glacier NP, you'd be even more SOL than I am here in comparatively populated area.

Hard pass now for me, but if these get widely adopted with OEM and aftermarket parts support, with proven reliability, I can see them being a really cool option. That's just several years out and a fairly large financial risk for the early adopters.

 

[baltistyle]

Who makes them and what are the part numbers? IF Ineos makes them or they are some extremely obscure then you kids may have a legit point.

You’ve proven the point in your first sentence…you have zero argument thinking any random mechanic would work in these. I can’t find people to work on nicer vehicles and or older vehicles in a densely populated east coast city and you think you are winding up in some random shop in any town in the world and getting helped quickly, efficiently, or correctly with a specialty foreign vehicle? You do pay attention to other new car brands and their journeys right? You could take your first model year teslas right to the mechanic down the street right, cause everyone knew where and how acquire parts? It doesn’t matter if ineos has a (bmw trash) made the engine, you realize every connecting piece may be differently wired right? Thinking that bmw engine will be around to be serviced in 30 years is also hilarious…I’d like to be blissfully ignorant like you. FYI, ALL MODERN bmw engines are throwaway junk at 100-150k mi when we look at them from this Toyota pedestal. Ineos is is a specialty vehicle for now, and will be for at least a decade or two.

And no need to be such a dick calling “us” kids. I’m by no means a “kid” and your negative way of speaking displays age does not equal intelligence nor ability to make a valid point. Good day

 

[Phillyd2]

I live in a fairly rural area, have a BMW with a B58 engine and have zero issues with service. I’ve also traveled very extensively around these great United States and have seen all types of non US vehicles all over.

I’m not buying a Ineos but service or parts availability isn’t the reason. Again, if they are using in house made proprietary parts then I’ll stand corrected but that case hasn't been made yet.

 

[Acrad]

Not comparing capabilities but kind of reminds of someone trying to get non-engine related parts for a La Forza years down the road if this vehicle isn’t a smash hit that continues on for many years

 

[Phillyd2]

You’ve proven the point in your first sentence…you have zero argument thinking any random mechanic would work in these. I can’t find people to work on nicer vehicles and or older vehicles in a densely populated east coast city and you think you are winding up in some random shop in any town in the world and getting helped quickly, efficiently, or correctly with a specialty foreign vehicle? You do pay attention to other new car brands and their journeys right? You could take your first model year teslas right to the mechanic down the street right, cause everyone knew where and how acquire parts? It doesn’t matter if ineos has a (bmw trash) made the engine, you realize every connecting piece may be differently wired right? Thinking that bmw engine will be around to be serviced in 30 years is also hilarious…I’d like to be blissfully ignorant like you. FYI, ALL MODERN bmw engines are throwaway junk at 100-150k mi when we look at them from this Toyota pedestal. Ineos is is a specialty vehicle for now, and will be for at least a decade or two.

And no need to be such a dick calling “us” kids. I’m by no means a “kid” and your negative way of speaking displays age does not equal intelligence nor ability to make a valid point. Good day

LOL Let’s try to avoid the cardinal sin of taking ourselves too seriously but kudos on using ‘ignorant’ and ‘dick’ while objecting to ‘kids’. Well done there

 

[stridertexas]

Maybe the question moreso is…will an Ineos last 5-10 years without any major problems while parts and service networks availability get built out…

 

[Phillyd2]

Maybe the question moreso is…will an Ineos last 5-10 years without any major problems while parts and service networks availability get built out…

TBD. The hypothetical was if Ineos as a company disappeared the day after driving one home, could it still be serviced or does it become a large lawn ornament?

 

[krice118]

Since we’re taking about your money, buy it and report back your experience. It’s really cool someone is building a vehicle like this.

I do feel these will be fairly cheap in the used market in a few years.

The brand was started by a billionaire, not some tech geeks who have no business acumen. I have hopes (call it wishful thinking or ignorance ) that this will be a successful brand.