4spd: is it possible to put the detent springs in the wrong place? (1 Viewer)

[amaurer]

I'm trying to remember but I can't - when I had the top cover off of my 4spd, I took two little springs out (I think these were springs for the shifter detents). When I put things back together, I think there were several holes for me to choose from and I remember being confused and just guessing where they went - is it possible to put the springs in the wrong place?

EDIT:

Here is a picture (I guess there were three springs?) of BEFORE I mixed up where the springs go. It looks to me like the middle one is for 1st/2nd gear, right? There is a hole on the other side, in green, where I *might* have put the spring instead... is that possible? My 1st/2nd gear feels detent-less... its either this or a blown up synchros.

 

[kiwidog]

amaurer

Any 4 speeds I have had a part didn't have the hole you have marked in green.(That I remember)
There is a hole in the gasket so maybe Mr T did use it at some point and your's may be on of them.
The detents don't really hold the the transmission in gear, they hold the stick in the position it is put which in turn pushes the synchro sleeve into gear. The slope on the teeth on the synchro hub and the connecting teeth on the gear hold the transmission mostly into gear under driving load. The springs inside the synchro hud also play their part along with the three clips in the 3 - 4 hub
Reverse is slightly different as they are straight cut gears so there is not thrust created.So the detent does really hold it in gear along with you hand on the stick
The 1,2,3 and 4th gears are hold in gear by the design of the synchro sleeve mostly.
The springs are all the same as far as I know. If you take the balls out you will see the detent notch that the ball fits into. There maybe a notch in the forth hole you have marked green, then there should be a ball and an extra spring.
The three regular springs go where you have them and fit into a cavity in the top of the shifter tower. The forth hole would have to use a shorter spring or have a forth hole in the shifter tower. It's pretty thin at that spot on the one I have seen.
You might want check the roll pins in the shift forks they can break and fork moves but doesn't move in and out of the detent. Then it could be possible to get two gears at once and lock the trans up.
If it is falling out of gear, the detent spring, unless they are broken don't usually effect that, that much. They generally just stop the stick from falling back when you hit a bump and pulling the synchro sleeve back which in turn pulls it out of gear.
It is really a system and needs all the parts to function well.

Hope this helps.

In another life I rebuilt hundreds of different standard transmissions. People "think" they are easier than automatic's to work on. There are some that are very forgiving with worn parts and some that require everything to be just right. I has seen guys build a TH350 in an hour with clean parts. I think it is not possible to do that with TLC 4 speed and they are one of the simple ones Of course someone will say they can.
The TLC 4/5 speed is pretty forgiving with the 5 speed less so. IMHO.

Thanks jb

 

[amaurer]

The detents don't really hold the the transmission in gear, they hold the stick in the position it is put which in turn pushes the synchro sleeve into gear. The slope on the teeth on the synchro hub and the connecting teeth on the gear hold the transmission mostly into gear under driving load. The springs inside the synchro hud also play their part along with the three clips in the 3 - 4 hub

Yeah well, my problem is sorta that in a nutshell - if I'm under load, the gears hold fine, but if I'm stopped, the weight of the stick is enough to pull it out of gear... its even worse if I'm facing uphill and the stick angle is more severe.

 

[kiwidog]

springs

Are you sure all of the balls are on the holes?
Check the the balls are all the same size and round.
Check the notch's in the shift rail
Check the roll pins in the shift fork that attach the fork to the detent rail.
The springs are 1.225" long
Do you have a big heavy shift ball?

Pull the top of your 4 speed and try another top.

I'm assuming it hasn't been apart and someone put it together with parts missing?

I suppose it could hydraulic in the shift rail if it was full of grease or thick oil?
By the dirt on the picture it doesn't look like it has been apart for awhile?.

One of the rules of trouble shooting is to look for change. The clues can be very hard to see sometimes.

Thanks jb

 

[Splangy]

Your picture shows them to be correct. PM me with your email address and I'll send you a pdf of the factory service manual for that tranny.