4spd in an f engine

[CruisinTiger]

Hey gang...ok I've done some searching and just wanna verify my findings. With putting a 4 speed tranny and tcase into an f engine-

Replace 3spd bellhousing w/ a 4spd bell housing - already bought that

Replace the pilot bearing just for good measure

Replace the rear main seal cause mine leaks

I can use the 3spd fly wheel, clutch, pressure plate, and throw out bearing.

The 4 spd bell housing bolts up the same way the 3spd bellhousing does?

Also is the rear main seal the same size in an f and 2f engine?

I've got a 4 spd drive shaft

Thanks, Chuck

 

[2badfjs]

sounds like your good to go chuck.
i was'nt able to ship the b/h today,got to busy and short handed at work.

i'm runnin a 4spd flywheel and clutch with a 3spd trans, so you should be alright.

everything else sounds right.

jim

 

[brian]

input shaft seal on the tranny?

i have the same setup in a '75, you should be good to go.

 

[Degnol]

I think you would reuse the clutch fork, too as it is specific to the three-fingered clutch pressure plate. But you already knew that. You have the front and rear driveshafts? Front is longer, rear is shorter.

GL

Ed


Oh and if you want to keep the slave mounted on the driver's side, you will need to cabbage the driver's side of the bellhousing mount from the three speed and swap it onto the fourspeed BH.

 

[CruisinTiger]

ok drawing a blank, is the input shaft seal the same as the rear main seal, or is that the seal that goes between the tranny and t case?

Degnol will I have to put a hole in the 4 speed bell housing to keep the clutch fork on the same side as it is now. Or is there a plate that I can remove?

Thanks, Chuck

 

[Josie'sLandCruiser]

Hi All:

You can use all three-speed clutch parts with the four-speed tranny. It works fine.

Be aware that the clutch fork is unique to whichever clutch assembly you choose to use; i.e. one cannot use a three-speed clutch fork with the four-speed clutch parts, or the other way around.

There is a removable rubber cover on either side of the bellhousing; use whichever side works for you! The three-speed and early four-speed had the clutch slave cylinder mounted on the driver's (left) side frame rail; later four-speeds switched to a passenger (right) side frame mount for the slave cylinder.

I'd double-check with the SOR online catalog regarding the rear main seal for hte "F" engine versus the 2F.

Good luck!

Alan
Seattle

 

[FJ40Jim]

One other item to remember is the fork pivot ball. There are 2 different versions, the only difference is the height. Use the correct height that goes w/ the clutch fork and PP that is being used. It just unbolts from the bellhousing.

In this case remove the three finger pivot from the threespeed BH and install into 4speed BH.

 

[CruisinTiger]

Ok thanks for all the info guys!!

Have another question....can I use this set up....f engine flywheel..pressure plate is universal....4 speed clutch plate....throw out bearing(should be universal).....with the 3 speed clutch fork.

The one I'm questionable about is the 3 speed clutch fork.

Thanks, Chuck

 

[Degnol]

Small correction. Pressure plate is specific, diaphragm for the 4 speed, three-fingered for the 3 speed. Disc is interchangeable, fork as mentioned is specific.
Flywheel is also specific.
Did not know about the difference in the pivot ball.....thanks Jim.

ed

 

[65swb45]

Small correction. Pressure plate is specific, diaphragm for the 4 speed, three-fingered for the 3 speed. Disc is interchangeable, fork as mentioned is specific.
Flywheel is also specific.
Did not know about the difference in the pivot ball.....thanks Jim.

ed

Small correction to the small correction! 1974 model year, from Sept 73 thru July 74 used a four speed transmission with the 3 finger pressure plate and reverse stepped flywheel. Soooooo in truth, either SYSTEM is compatible with the 4 speed BUT you do need to keep the SYSTEM intact. The fork and pivot ball changed at the same time as the throwout bearing and pressure plate.

 

[Degnol]

Small correction to the small correction! 1974 model year, from Sept 73 thru July 74 used a four speed transmission with the 3 finger pressure plate and reverse stepped flywheel. Soooooo in truth, either SYSTEM is compatible with the 4 speed BUT you do need to keep the SYSTEM intact. The fork and pivot ball changed at the same time as the throwout bearing and pressure plate.

See, I learn something every day. Do I at least get credit for class participation? Partial credit would be OK.

Question about this transition. Was the slave on the driver's side or passenger? I'm guessing passenger.

Ed

 

[65swb45]

See, I learn something every day. Do I at least get credit for class participation? Partial credit would be OK.

Question about this transition. Was the slave on the driver's side or passenger? I'm guessing passenger.

Ed

Ed, we all get credit, every day, just for showing up! Sometimes tho, that's all we get. From the SOR website: CLT TUBE-7/70-8/74 FJ40.

That would mean that the hose stayed on the driver's side thru the transition, which is what I remembered.

 

[Jerry D.]

If you are putting the 4 speed into the ’68 (only one I see on your post) that has the original vacuum control for the transfer case, you might have a couple more things to think about.

The four speed in about 4 inches longer that the original three speed, that will move the vacuum actuator beyond the hump in the floor board that covers the vacuum actuator. You will need to either cut the floor board, change to a manual shift lever or do a body lift. Also the frame cross over brace/tube will most likely have to be relocated rearward.

If you keep the vacuum actuator, and the under dash lever control you will also need to lengthen the rods on these.

I chose the body lift, 3” worked fine.

 

[Josie'sLandCruiser]

Hi All:

Humm! Like someone else mentioned, you learn something new everyday!

I have a FJ40 that was built in 11/73; when I got yhe truck it had a 2F and four speed tranny. When swapping-in a H41 tranny I found the three speed type clutch parts. I had just assumed that the H42 had been swapped into the rig at the same time as the 2F.

Mark, would my 11/73 transfer case be the famous "four speed" type t-case with "three speed" t-case low range gearing?

Thanks!

Alan
Seattle
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Mark aka 65swb45 wrote:

Small correction to the small correction! 1974 model year, from Sept 73 thru July 74 used a four speed transmission with the 3 finger pressure plate and reverse stepped flywheel. Soooooo in truth, either SYSTEM is compatible with the 4 speed BUT you do need to keep the SYSTEM intact. The fork and pivot ball changed at the same time as the throwout bearing and pressure plate.

 

[CruisinTiger]

You are correct Jerry but I'm switching to a 4 speed tcase also so I won't have to deal with the vaccuum lines. I believe I should be ok with everything else.

Thanks, Chuck

 

[65swb45]

Hi All:



Mark, would my 11/73 transfer case be the famous "four speed" type t-case with "three speed" t-case low range gearing?

Thanks!

Alan
Seattle

Transition case was geared 1.99, not 1.96 like the 4/75 and newer. Basically, it had all the whine of the 3 speed case in hi range without the benefit of the low range. BUT, the good news is that the 3 speed gears will drop straight in. That's what I'm gonna be doing to Calico Kid's 74 piggie in the next few weeks.

BTW, for gear specs, there's a real good chart here:

http://www.birfield.com/modules.php?name=TLCFAQ&p=/~ramullen/FAQ/TEXT/08-01.html

 

[65swb45]

If you are putting the 4 speed into the ’68 (only one I see on your post) that has the original vacuum control for the transfer case, you might have a couple more things to think about.

The four speed in about 4 inches longer that the original three speed, that will move the vacuum actuator beyond the hump in the floor board that covers the vacuum actuator. You will need to either cut the floor board, change to a manual shift lever or do a body lift. Also the frame cross over brace/tube will most likely have to be relocated rearward.

If you keep the vacuum actuator, and the under dash lever control you will also need to lengthen the rods on these.

I chose the body lift, 3” worked fine.

All good points Jerry. I managed to 'squeak' the linkage past the tub support with just a little dimpling on the brace with a ball peen hammer. I did cut the crossover brace and fab a bolt on replacement a little further back.

 

[snailwagon]

Nothing to do with this post really, but I have a 4spd with a vac operated case in an fj55. Even on that it becomes really tight, especially for the vacuum hoses. Maybe someone can chime in why, but some random older cruisers actually came with the slave cylinder on the passenger side. I also have a september 1973 fj40 (1974 model)that came with a 3spd to break the cruiser rules even more.

 

[65swb45]

Nothing to do with this post really, but I have a 4spd with a vac operated case in an fj55. Even on that it becomes really tight, especially for the vacuum hoses. Maybe someone can chime in why, but some random older cruisers actually came with the slave cylinder on the passenger side. I also have a september 1973 fj40 (1974 model)that came with a 3spd to break the cruiser rules even more.

This thread is going into freefall!

RE slave location: the FJ55s ran them opposite from the 40s. They were passenger side when the 40s were driver. And when the 40s went to the passenger side.......................55s went to the driver's!!!!!!!!!

That's why the bellhousings are symmetrical.

3 speed trannies were offered domestically up thru 76, and abroad into the 1980s. Seen quite a few in 74s. They used '4 speed' transfer cases with the wider gears and a 10 splined imput gear. I've got one on the shelf somewhere from a customer's 76 that I swapped a 4 speed into.

 

[Josie'sLandCruiser]

Hi All:

Mark, so you are saying that the gear set from like a '73 "three speed" t-case will install as direct replacement parts in the 11/73 t-case I have?

You see, I ask b/c I have said three speed t-case out in the garage, that I am considering installing.

Thanks!

Alan

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"Mark" aka 65swb45 wrote:

Transition case was geared 1.99, not 1.96 like the 4/75 and newer. Basically, it had all the whine of the 3 speed case in hi range without the benefit of the low range. BUT, the good news is that the 3 speed gears will drop straight in. That's what I'm gonna be doing to Calico Kid's 74 piggie in the next few weeks.

BTW, for gear specs, there's a real good chart here:

http://www.birfield.com/modules.php?...EXT/08-01.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josie'sLandCruiser
Hi All:

Mark, would my 11/73 transfer case be the famous "four speed" type t-case with "three speed" t-case low range gearing?

Thanks!

Alan
Seattle