460 or 470?

[ewillis]

Adding a GX to the stable and not sure which route. I'm most concerned with off road performance, safety, and reliability. Looking at a small lift, rear locker, and 33s if possible without rubbing or cutting. Search revealed the 470 has much more aftermarket support, but I like the economy and interior of the 460. Purchase price isn't the main factor for me. Should I hold out for a creampuff 470 or snatch a late model 460?

 

[red mud fj]

Both are excellent, I would go with the 460 just because it is newer. Had a 470 that was cream puff but quite capable. Our 460 has crawl control and works realy excelllent on long rough streaches of trail.
I have been concedering another 460 to build, it's acutely about the same size as my 80 and if my 80 gets to hard to keep going it might happen.

 

[chitown40]

I believe most of the 460s have KDSS, or at least a lot more of them than the 470s. If you're going to build an off-road truck, I would sway away from the KDSS. I just had a large KDSS repair, and Lexus even stepped up for half the bill on my 2009 470, but it was still spendy. The KDSS suspension on the road is absolutely the best riding vehicle I have ever owned, including my previous 100 series.

 

[jiddic]

There are some clean 470s with no sports package/KDSS but I've been holding out for one with KDSS. I wish I could drive both back to back on the road and then on some trails. I'm pretty split and having a hard time pulling the trigger. If youre going to build an expedition rig with some off roading and a good chunk of onroad time, is KDSS going to make that big of a difference?

 

[GXO]

KDSS is fine off and on road unless you have plans for extended or long travel. If not, it is fine.

 

[NTAPHSE]

The whole point of KDSS is to be the best of both worlds, both on and off road. On road the sway bars stay firm when cornering. Offroad when the wheels are articulating it allows them to. I have KDSS and absolutely love it.

 

[JLee]

I believe most of the 460s have KDSS, or at least a lot more of them than the 470s. If you're going to build an off-road truck, I would sway away from the KDSS. I just had a large KDSS repair, and Lexus even stepped up for half the bill on my 2009 470, but it was still spendy. The KDSS suspension on the road is absolutely the best riding vehicle I have ever owned, including my previous 100 series.

KDSS is standard on the GX460.

 

[ewillis]

I need more info on the KDSS system. It seems to be a positive for most people. I'm pretty sure it can be removed if necessary but not 100% sure. The CRAWL feature of the 460 is absolutely a desirable feature IMO as it is offered on the 200 series as well. Anyone have any Intel on the 4.6 engine in terms of reliability?

 

[co4wheel]

http://www.lexus.com/documents/brochures/2010/2010-Lexus-GX-Brochure.pdf

BTW, I did not know KDSS was standard on the 2010. WOW. I would not worry about the 4.6. No reported issues on that engine to my knowledge.

 

[chitown40]

I need more info on the KDSS system. It seems to be a positive for most people. I'm pretty sure it can be removed if necessary but not 100% sure. The CRAWL feature of the 460 is absolutely a desirable feature IMO as it is offered on the 200 series as well. Anyone have any Intel on the 4.6 engine in terms of reliability?

KDSS can definitely be removed, but you cannot outfit a standard sway bar system in it's place. So, if you remove KDSS you will have no swaybars.

I'm sure crawl is a desirable feature, but I would never call it a must have. You can definitely accomplish whatever crawl control does with your two feet. You would probably use it .01% of the time you are driving.

I think the new 460 is nice, but I'm not a huge fan of all the electronics and gizmos in the new interiors. Too distracting to drive. I've had a few service loaners from Lexus and while they are nice, I'm so happy to get my 470 back each and every time.

 

[Arailt]

When I bought my 470, I wanted a solid newer platform with the least amount of electronic nannies/goodies I could find while still being a reliable family vehicle (3rd row) and daily driver that could easily be modified. The 460 had too many nannies and little aftermarket support.

I'm from the school of thought that simpler is better when you're off road, so I steered clear of KDSS and Crawl Control. I don't need either and I'd rather avoid a costly repair down the road. Plus, there's no better way to let everyone know that you have absolutely no idea what your doing than using Crawl Control on the trail.

 

[scparrish]

For on road driving kdss makes it much better. I held out to find a sport kdss model when I was shopping.

 

[co4wheel]

To me I had a couple of issues with getting a 460 instead of the 470 I did purchase.

1) Driver Seat. I could not find a 460 for a fair price that did not have a trashed front seat. Even the 470 was hard to find a decent front seat. But the 460 ones where worse. I think it the AC/Ventelated seat not standing up to wear as well.
2) Roof is just not as nice as the 470. It just feels like a 4Runner inside not a Lexus. Why oh Why did they lower the roof back down.
3) I hate the third down in the 460. It's HORRIBLE. Takes up too much space and is too high. If I got a 460 I would have to figure out how to get that thing out and make the floor flat so I can sleep in the back easier.

 

[ewillis]

When I bought my 470, I wanted a solid newer platform with the least amount of electronic nannies/goodies I could find while still being a reliable family vehicle (3rd row) and daily driver that could easily be modified. The 460 had too many nannies and little aftermarket support.

I'm from the school of thought that simpler is better when you're off road, so I steered clear of KDSS and Crawl Control. I don't need either and I'd rather avoid a costly repair down the road. Plus, there's no better way to let everyone know that you have absolutely no idea what your doing than using Crawl Control on the trail.

I agree with wanting less electronics, which is why I own an 80 series. The fact is though...electronically assisted everything is the way of the present and future. Hard to find a newer vehicle that still uses a metal key and ignition! I'm getting away from trying to keep old trucks new, it's a losing battle...ask me how I know . Disagree about the CRAWL statement to some extent. I think it would have been genius during the week of ICY declines I just encountered in Tahoe. I wouldn't trust it on a Black Bear switchback though. It's standard on the 200 and I'd rather have it than not.

KDSS can definitely be removed, but you cannot outfit a standard sway bar system in it's place. So, if you remove KDSS you will have no swaybars.

I'm sure crawl is a desirable feature, but I would never call it a must have. You can definitely accomplish whatever crawl control does with your two feet. You would probably use it .01% of the time you are driving.

I think the new 460 is nice, but I'm not a huge fan of all the electronics and gizmos in the new interiors. Too distracting to drive. I've had a few service loaners from Lexus and while they are nice, I'm so happy to get my 470 back each and every time.

Good info...I know you know your cruisers! I think I'd rather not have the KDSS to simplify matters, but if I end up with a late model 470 or any 460 it will likely have it. I wonder if the non-US spec Prados have swaybars and related components to swap? Maybe a dumb question as I have not seen the system in person and what is really involved...still learning. I'll likely end up with a KDSS equipped rig and not a deal breaker at all really as I believe the system is also standard on the 200.

 

[KLF]

I'm very interested in stepping into a GX for my next vehicle, I'm also on the fence about the 460/470. Your post is interesting...

1) Driver Seat. I could not find a 460 for a fair price that did not have a trashed front seat. Even the 470 was hard to find a decent front seat. But the 460 ones where worse. I think it the AC/Ventelated seat not standing up to wear as well.

I looked at a '12 a couple of weeks ago (this one: 2012 Lexus GX 460 Premium Sport), it was in decent shape for the miles, but the driver's seat was trashed. Filthy dirty and the seat bolster closest to the door had the edges rubbed raw, it looked awful. Ugly stain on the driver's door by the switches. Huge coffee stain on the second row seat too. The sales dude insisted they could be restored to "look like new" but I knew different. Deal breaker, I never took it for a test drive, refused to give them my name. They are very rare around here, but you now have me wondering that this is typical? SO sad.

3) I hate the third down in the 460. It's HORRIBLE. Takes up too much space and is too high. If I got a 460 I would have to figure out how to get that thing out and make the floor flat so I can sleep in the back easier.

There is a post over in Club Lexus in the second gen GX section that shows how to remove the 3rd row. Ya that power crap would have to go. I want the storage back, we would never ever use that seat.

 

[chitown40]

I agree with wanting less electronics, which is why I own an 80 series. The fact is though...electronically assisted everything is the way of the present and future. Hard to find a newer vehicle that still uses a metal key and ignition! I'm getting away from trying to keep old trucks new, it's a losing battle...ask me how I know . Disagree about the CRAWL statement to some extent. I think it would have been genius during the week of ICY declines I just encountered in Tahoe. I wouldn't trust it on a Black Bear switchback though. It's standard on the 200 and I'd rather have it than not.



Good info...I know you know your cruisers! I think I'd rather not have the KDSS to simplify matters, but if I end up with a late model 470 or any 460 it will likely have it. I wonder if the non-US spec Prados have swaybars and related components to swap? Maybe a dumb question as I have not seen the system in person and what is really involved...still learning. I'll likely end up with a KDSS equipped rig and not a deal breaker at all really as I believe the system is also standard on the 200.

The issue is not obtaining the standard swaybar components, but I don't believe the attachment points on the frame and such are present. You would have to drill and weld on captured nuts and the like. It would be more work than to pay to have any repairs done on the system. Plus by the time a 460 KDSS starts to fail, the price of the parts and labor may drop some since more and more Toyota vehicles are coming with KDSS as standard equipment.

I honestly love the on-road handling of KDSS, which is why I chose to repair mine. The truck drove ok with it in a fault state, but the handling was like any other boring sloppy SUV. KDSS adds the sport back into the truck.

 

[Arailt]

I agree with wanting less electronics, which is why I own an 80 series. The fact is though...electronically assisted everything is the way of the present and future. Hard to find a newer vehicle that still uses a metal key and ignition! I'm getting away from trying to keep old trucks new, it's a losing battle...ask me how I know . Disagree about the CRAWL statement to some extent. I think it would have been genius during the week of ICY declines I just encountered in Tahoe. I wouldn't trust it on a Black Bear switchback though. It's standard on the 200 and I'd rather have it than not.

Haha. Fair enough. I know the pain of maintaining aging vehicles all too well. I've owned three old Jeeps over the years, including a CJ. When I was shopping for my 470, a '95-'97 80 series was on the top of my list. Unfortunately, the wife didn't like the idea of using a 20 year old Toyota as a family vehicle. Can't say I blame her, bit if I was single, my 470 would be an 80 series.

FWIW, the 470s have Downhill Assist Control for steep/loose descents. Not as fancy as Crawl Control, but it makes just as much noise.