Probably because you would like to make it home with an engine that works than spend a few nights on that remote beach in Mexico with the Federales.
Oh, that wasn’t you. Sorry I get you Toyota guys confused.
4 banger LC, thoughts?
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Probably because you would like to make it home with an engine that works than spend a few nights on that remote beach in Mexico with the Federales.
Oh, that wasn’t you. Sorry I get you Toyota guys confused.
Thanks…the intent is comedy.
What model Toyota truck is the Prius? We don’t get that one in Europe. Of course you Yanks get all the good stuff. You are the only ones in the world getting this new Hybrid engine. Probably has nothing to do with your California emissions standards and that Toyota had no bloody choice. If they were so proud of this new sewing machine, you’d think they would sell it someplace? No. Nowhere. Nothing. I guess they aren’t very proud of it after all.
Oh you are referring to the HMS Prius sunk in one of the first engagements with the Hybrid powered French fleet! See, they’ll try to foist the most remarkably imaginative canards on you readers so stay alert.
I have said it before, I am torn. One side of me, trust Yotas and trust they had done the right thing as they normally had, and trust the legendary reliability. Other side thinks man, I just stick to the LC200 and be done.
The idea is pretty simple, really when you think aboou it: Boost your power and produce less emissions, where you can hit it the most. But you still want to have enough power to tow to a certain degree and keep rear axel/truck configurations. The LC250 is made for some towing and family/explore, hence a 4 banger with turbo would be enough, but that is why the Tundra has the 6 with turbo, WAY more power needed for those big bad a$$ towing trucks. The MPG gains in the Tundra are VERY marginal, really not great. And it does not come cheap either. Imagine, all those extra electrical parts and bits, add to the $$$.
My learnings say that it is like anything else, you cannot beat the triangle, something's gotta give up: Time. Cost. Quality (end product). You can achieve one, but at the expense of the other two ! LOL. Maybe you are right: Cheaper to produce at the expense of less time to figure it a more proper solution to be found out and end product. Or maybe they did put the effort and money into it, and this is the best FOR now we can get our hands to. I remeber 20 years ago, hybrids...really?
I think why it was done this way has to do to be able to maintain the capability of towing power, you need the "traditional" components of a truck. LOL
The idea is pretty simple, really when you think aboou it: Boost your power and produce less emissions, where you can hit it the most. But you still want to have enough power to tow to a certain degree and keep rear axel/truck configurations. The LC250 is made for some towing and family/explore, hence a 4 banger with turbo would be enough, but that is why the Tundra has the 6 with turbo, WAY more power needed for those big bad a$$ towing trucks. The MPG gains in the Tundra are VERY marginal, really not great. And it does not come cheap either. Imagine, all those extra electrical parts and bits, add to the $$$.
My learnings say that it is like anything else, you cannot beat the triangle, something's gotta give up: Time. Cost. Quality (end product). You can achieve one, but at the expense of the other two ! LOL. Maybe you are right: Cheaper to produce at the expense of less time to figure it a more proper solution to be found out and end product. Or maybe they did put the effort and money into it, and this is the best FOR now we can get our hands to. I remeber 20 years ago, hybrids...really?
I think why it was done this way has to do to be able to maintain the capability of towing power, you need the "traditional" components of a truck. LOL
Yep, understand we all have different interests, likes and solutions.
Bottomline the all capable LC200 which could do it all has no successor yet in the US, except for the LX600 at very high $$$ and a grill screaming at you every time you walk up...
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I'm not sure the two are mutually exclusive. If they are - sure, I'll drop some efficiency for reliability. It sure seems like this is the same story with every change in transportation. Even the horseless carriage. I still have reservations about the reliability, but I expect that they'll be sorted out pretty well by Toyota.
I certainly agree that the Tundra MPG is a big disappointment. To me - the new tundra is simply disappointing in general. I'm not sure it's the engine that's the problem. The TTV6 is excellent for drivability and relatively poor in efficiency. It should be better. Especially the hybrid - it should be 25+mpg.
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NTTD
Lurker
Apples/Oranges. They're different classes of vehicle. You could say the same thing if you compared the 200 to a 4Runner, or a Sequoia to a 4Runner.
The 250 isn't a "replacement" for the 300, it's something else altogether.
If you want a 300 GET ONE they are here they're just not branded with a "T".
Yes
So many people seem to forget just how much the LC was in the US, why it "died". When you factor in inflation the 100 and the 200 when they were released would be over 90K in today's dollars. The LC and the LX were so expensive and relatively so close in price they competed with each-other.
A "Toy" branded 300 would be $$$ too, don't kid yourself. The 200 sold like crap because people didn't want to pay the big bucks. There was way too much "luxury $h!t" on those here in the US.
If one can't afford the LX600 then they couldn't afford a LC300 if we had them.
And I agree, that grill! WTF Lexus?! Thank goodness they went a different direction with the GX550.
That’s funny. Yes, I’ll gladly chill with federales; we’ll swap stories about rescuing coked-up broken-down overlandy euro trash. But the Land Cruisers—they’ll continue to always bring us home safely, be they gas, diesel, or hybrid.
I suggest buying a LX 600 before the 250 decimates the value of your used 200, which it will.
Why in god's name would it do that? If anything 200s are going to be even more valuable as time goes on.
LX600s are weak sauce, they lost all kinds of weight and underbody protection for fuel economy. AHC protection which look literally as tough as jail bars are gone from the 300. 200 was built and engineered before the government ruined everything with their obsession with efficiency. 200 has a very beloved V8, probably one of the best truck engines ever made. Just, god forbid it gets bad gas mileage like all 3 ton SUVs.
The 200 will lose value, and probably precipitously; it’s the simple and inevitable result of consumers choosing a new Land Cruiser over one that is used, in many ways less capable, and far more expensive to both purchase and operate.
Of course, I would hate to have heard news of the $55,000 250 had I purchased a $90,000 200 under the presumption that it would be North America’s last Land Cruiser, and would hold value thusly. But now there’s a new Land Cruiser that is in many ways better, and it’s cheaper — and the value of the 200 will fall as a result.
200 and 250 are completely different animals.
Guilty
But I love my ‘21 200 and plan to keep it for the long haul, so not too worried about the potential for an initial drop. Value 15 years out will be less impacted…and my kids will be starting to drive so may keep it for them.
Just curious how you think the 250 is more capable than the 200? When we think of capability we usually reference articulation and the 200 has fantastic articulation with kdss
I get it, and that’s the way to do it. In my opinion, regardless of series, long-term ownership is still an excellent value and it’s the most important value. I still have a Land Cruiser that our family bought off the lot when I was 17. It runs great. It’s taken us all over the continent, for decades, and she’s always returned us home safely. It will make three generations of memories as my nephews will soon learn to drive in it. That’s what’s embodied by the badge; few things in our society are engineered and built with such quality anymore.
David does not get a lot of love around here, but he is advising Toyota purists rush to buy classic V6 and V8s while they still can and expects these dynos to be rich with future value. People were probably crowing that the values of big block engined cars would plummet when the Ford Fiesta was announced, but visit Barrett- Jackson some day (in Arizona) and see what these old, non PC, pave the rainforest, muscle cars sell for today.
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I expect (but we’ll have to await some specs) the 250 will be more capable in:
Articulation (ala 300 series, but both excellent)
Range (and range/aux fuel volume)
Fuel efficiency
4wd system (standard center and rear locks)
Nimbleness off road (narrower, shorter, lighter)
Payload (the 200 was only 1560 if recall?)
Torque
Aux power, hybrid battery
I expect the 200 to be more capable in:
Seating capacity
Horsepower
Usable cargo volume
Towing
The 40 and 60 were completely different animals. The 60 and the 80 were completely different animals. The 80 and 100 were completely different animals.
People were bitching about how big, heavy, and expensive the 200 had become, and this was reflected in the terrible sales in the US (about 300 per month). So Toyota debuts the 250, which is lighter, cheaper, more efficient, and more basic than the 200. And a bunch of people freak out because it isn’t a 200.
I just can’t even…
True.The 40 and 60 were completely different animals. The 60 and the 80 were completely different animals. The 80 and 100 were completely different animals.
People were bitching about how big, heavy, and expensive the 200 had become, and this was reflected in the terrible sales in the US (about 300 per month). So Toyota debuts the 250, which is lighter, cheaper, more efficient, and more basic than the 200. And a bunch of people freak out because it isn’t a 200.
I just can’t even…
Toyota finally listened, and they nailed it.
The 250 in my opinion will be the best overall remote touring wagon that’s ever been available in the North American market.
I’d be fun to see an interview with the team who was responsible for its design objectives and performance benchmarks.
I am so pissed Detroit won't make a bare-bones, rear-wheel-drive, V8, 4-speed muscle car and sell it for $25,000! Wait.. what? Oh... the market doesn't want those anymore?
We can get mad all we want. But car manufacturers make what people buy. They're not hobbyists. They're not enthusiasts. They don't care about nostalgia.... unless it sells - and sells at a profit - and a high volume. And remember: NO ONE BOUGHT THE 100 or 200 IN THE US. It was a failure.
Toyota's decision wasn't :
1. Make a full-size, V8, 7-passenger, off-road-capable, 7,500 lb towing, SUV
or
2. Make the 250.
The decision was:
1. Make the 250.
or.
2. Kill the Land Cruiser for the U.S. market
We can get mad all we want. But car manufacturers make what people buy. They're not hobbyists. They're not enthusiasts. They don't care about nostalgia.... unless it sells - and sells at a profit - and a high volume. And remember: NO ONE BOUGHT THE 100 or 200 IN THE US. It was a failure.
Toyota's decision wasn't :
1. Make a full-size, V8, 7-passenger, off-road-capable, 7,500 lb towing, SUV
or
2. Make the 250.
The decision was:
1. Make the 250.
or.
2. Kill the Land Cruiser for the U.S. market
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