looks great !!
and your anti tamper cap is still intact.
and your anti tamper cap is still intact.
3F Carburetor Info/Rebuild
- Thread starter Honger
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- #22
I'm not sure that's an anti-tamper cap. It's open on top, freely rotates, and I have an SST that slips inside of it to adjust the idle mixture.
Very nice rebuild from this 3F carb! Was curious to see how different they were from F/2F carb.
Just looking quickly to the PN it even seems the OEM carb kits are still listed available for the 3F.
I'm surprised to see both venturi that black, would this means that previous owners used to floor it all the time? I would think that commonly the secondary is a lot less used that the main.
Power valve jets are slightly smaller than main jets (hard to see if not comparing side by side but they don't have the same thread so you can't mix them) and you should have in the kit a 60 (and a 55 for high altitude backup).
I think you are right keeping the original jetting of your carb, it's quite a difference between the F and 3F jetting.
Was not sure if it was a good or stupid idea
I'm not sure why you use 1974 F carb kits for your rebuild?I started with this Keyster kit. The gent who's 3F had gone south and gave me the Chicom carb also gave me this kit. He said that @cruiseroutfit had supplied it, so that's your best place to find it I'm sure.
I snagged the Hygrade 791B kit as well for the better air horn gasket as well as the secondary diaphragm. This came from Rockauto.
Just looking quickly to the PN it even seems the OEM carb kits are still listed available for the 3F.
Woo this is black!
I'm surprised to see both venturi that black, would this means that previous owners used to floor it all the time? I would think that commonly the secondary is a lot less used that the main.
Having used this exact Keyster kit recently I think 114 is not the power valve jet. It's the high altitude back-up of the Primary jet (F carb having the high altitude jet included inside the drains).
Power valve jets are slightly smaller than main jets (hard to see if not comparing side by side but they don't have the same thread so you can't mix them) and you should have in the kit a 60 (and a 55 for high altitude backup).
I think you are right keeping the original jetting of your carb, it's quite a difference between the F and 3F jetting.
Actually I was thinking a couple of day ago about doing exactly that with the TP valve on my carbYou should retain the AC idle up and put a toggle switch in the cab to operate the solenoid for it.
Handy for bumping the idle up for hill climbs.
Was not sure if it was a good or stupid idea
- Thread starter
- #25
I'm not entirely sure either, except that it was given to me a free and the explanation given was that it was recommended by @cruiseroutfit for this application. That may or may not be the case, but I'm sure the kit came from them.
I have not been able to source an OEM carb kit. Curious where you've managed to find one.
Once I reinstall I'll report back here with my findings on performance/improvement.
If I'm not wrong the correct carb kit PN for the 21100-61300 carb would be 04211-61270, superseeded by 04211-61271.
04211-61271 is displayed available at Amayama and EU equivalent: Toyota 04211-61271 (0421161271) CARBURETOR KIT - https://www.amayama.com/en/part/toyota/0421161271 04211-61271 ⇒ CARBURETORKIT (0421161271) - https://www.xexpress.fr/ref-toyota-04211-61271.html
TPD in the US doesn't list 61271 but shows 61270 available: 04211-61270 Genuine Toyota CARBURETOR Kit - https://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/oem/toyota~carburetor~kit~04211-61270.html
Now the way those websites works the parts are indicated available until someone tries to order them and they are actually NLA. Partsouq list it as unavailable so maybe not a great sign but still a lot of sources listing it available. Particularly considering that 21100-61300 is the version of the 3F carb still available to buy.
Looking at kits for previous versions of the 3F carb and all markets variants shows a lot of availability at Amayama also: Carburetor assembly for Toyota Land Cruiser FJ70LV - Genuine parts - https://toyota-general.epc-data.com/land_cruiser/fj70lv/7959/engine/2102/04211/
As for the kit you used, I guess that if the gaskets fit and all the original hardware was in good enough condition to be re-used I don't see why your rebuild wouldn't be a success. Maybe Kurt had the info that the body of the carb was similar enough for the gaskets to fit.
04211-61271 is displayed available at Amayama and EU equivalent: Toyota 04211-61271 (0421161271) CARBURETOR KIT - https://www.amayama.com/en/part/toyota/0421161271 04211-61271 ⇒ CARBURETORKIT (0421161271) - https://www.xexpress.fr/ref-toyota-04211-61271.html
TPD in the US doesn't list 61271 but shows 61270 available: 04211-61270 Genuine Toyota CARBURETOR Kit - https://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/oem/toyota~carburetor~kit~04211-61270.html
Now the way those websites works the parts are indicated available until someone tries to order them and they are actually NLA. Partsouq list it as unavailable so maybe not a great sign but still a lot of sources listing it available. Particularly considering that 21100-61300 is the version of the 3F carb still available to buy.
Looking at kits for previous versions of the 3F carb and all markets variants shows a lot of availability at Amayama also: Carburetor assembly for Toyota Land Cruiser FJ70LV - Genuine parts - https://toyota-general.epc-data.com/land_cruiser/fj70lv/7959/engine/2102/04211/
As for the kit you used, I guess that if the gaskets fit and all the original hardware was in good enough condition to be re-used I don't see why your rebuild wouldn't be a success. Maybe Kurt had the info that the body of the carb was similar enough for the gaskets to fit.
- Thread starter
- #27
Man... I must have either fat-fingered part numbers when I searched, or I'm completely mis-remembering my search. Indeed, I have part no. 04211-61271 in my spreadsheet of parts for my truck. And, as you've point out, it seems available.
I am going to have my parts guy take a look at ordering 04211-61270 here stateside, see what happens.
Huge thanks for adding your input here!
I am going to have my parts guy take a look at ordering 04211-61270 here stateside, see what happens.
Huge thanks for adding your input here!
Do you know when/where that recommendation happened. Certainly something I may have looked up or recommended but I don't recall it.
We generally match the OE carb# to the Keyster application guide we have developed for carb kits. Oddly the box label and actual applications are not often the exact same, particularly for US spec Cruisers.
- Thread starter
- #29
I have no idea... likely 3 or more years ago. Like I said, it was generously given to me with a brief explanation.Do you know when/where that recommendation happened. Certainly something I may have looked up or recommended but I don't recall it.
We generally match the OE carb# to the Keyster application guide we have developed for carb kits. Oddly the box label and actual applications are not often the exact same, particularly for US spec Cruisers.
All parts in the kit worked perfectly for my 3F rebuild. The jets were the only part that didn't "match up" so to speak, so I installed the original jets. The jets that came with the kit would certainly have fit the carb if I'd used them. I test fit a few to verify.
- Thread starter
- #31
Finally got around to re-installing the rebuilt carb. My free time has been all-consumed by a kitchen remodel, so I woke up at 5AM this past Saturday to get this done.
It runs like a dream! I had some lag issues when you'd hammer the accelerator... and when choked the carb would also have some issues with acceleration. Those are completely gone. Throttle response is incredible now, a major improvement. I also replaced the old accelerator cable, so I'm probably enjoying some benefit from that as well.
Finally, the Chinesium temporary carb had so many quirks and issues, that it's further heightened my appreciation for the rebuilt carb. This rebuilt 31-year old carb blows away the "newish" copy.
It runs like a dream! I had some lag issues when you'd hammer the accelerator... and when choked the carb would also have some issues with acceleration. Those are completely gone. Throttle response is incredible now, a major improvement. I also replaced the old accelerator cable, so I'm probably enjoying some benefit from that as well.
Finally, the Chinesium temporary carb had so many quirks and issues, that it's further heightened my appreciation for the rebuilt carb. This rebuilt 31-year old carb blows away the "newish" copy.
- Thread starter
- #32
Only a few months running this temporary carb and it was pretty fouled up... running to rich perhaps? I struggled with lean-drop tuning of it, so that makes some sense. The new carb lean-drop tuned without issue.
any updates/problems/successes you can share, im about to embark on the rebuild myself Aus spec 3f carb
- Thread starter
- #34
It's running just fine. It has certainly shown itself to be more finicky about cold-weather starts than it used to be. For reference, that is 35 to 50-degree Phoenix cold, not truly cold.
But once warm it runs great. As the weather is warming up here it's starting better as well. I wonder if my seal to the manifold isn't as good as it used to be and when colder it has a leak. I just need to investigate that.
Otherwise, the rebuild has proven to have been a fantastic move.
But once warm it runs great. As the weather is warming up here it's starting better as well. I wonder if my seal to the manifold isn't as good as it used to be and when colder it has a leak. I just need to investigate that.
Otherwise, the rebuild has proven to have been a fantastic move.
This was helpful. Thank you!
Thanks this has been quite insightful as there's not a lot of info kicking about on 3F's with a Carb. I am from South Africa and we had carbs here in our FJ62 3F trucks.
I have been struggling a bit with my carbs. The one I initially had in, seemed to have a vacuum leak around the primary butterfly shaft, which I rebushed but could not really solve the issue. It was idling like crap and dies whenever slowing down, unless you fiddled with the choke or kept the revs high when slowing down and stopping. It pulled really well in the higher rev ranges though.
I got a rebuilt Aisan carb off marketplace, which immediately solved my idling issues when I put it on. I had a new problem though, in that the higher rev ranges felt flat. Also could see black smoke coming out at those ranges or prolonged high throttle / high load scenarios. I reasoned that the secondary jet might be causing some rich running. I am sitting at 5000ft and its also hot, making density altitude of 7000ft the norm and higher in summer.
Luckily I had the old carb out and could compare the jets. The old carb that I took out had 138 primary and 150 secondary main jets. The new rebuilt carb that is on the car, had 138 and 220. This sounds a bit closer to what the original jets were, mentioned in this post, but knowing the old carb pulled well in higher ranges, I swopped the 220 secondary main out with the 150. Now the car pulls much better in the higher rev ranges with almost no smoke ( still a bit if I really hammer it). It does seem like a bit of an odd jetting combo, given the previous posts, but for now it has improved my situation. Given the info in post #24, I might change my primary main jet out to something lower as well, to see how that runs.
Just thought I'd add my 2c and also once again thank the OP and others for adding to the fairly small base of info on carbed 3F's..
I have been struggling a bit with my carbs. The one I initially had in, seemed to have a vacuum leak around the primary butterfly shaft, which I rebushed but could not really solve the issue. It was idling like crap and dies whenever slowing down, unless you fiddled with the choke or kept the revs high when slowing down and stopping. It pulled really well in the higher rev ranges though.
I got a rebuilt Aisan carb off marketplace, which immediately solved my idling issues when I put it on. I had a new problem though, in that the higher rev ranges felt flat. Also could see black smoke coming out at those ranges or prolonged high throttle / high load scenarios. I reasoned that the secondary jet might be causing some rich running. I am sitting at 5000ft and its also hot, making density altitude of 7000ft the norm and higher in summer.
Luckily I had the old carb out and could compare the jets. The old carb that I took out had 138 primary and 150 secondary main jets. The new rebuilt carb that is on the car, had 138 and 220. This sounds a bit closer to what the original jets were, mentioned in this post, but knowing the old carb pulled well in higher ranges, I swopped the 220 secondary main out with the 150. Now the car pulls much better in the higher rev ranges with almost no smoke ( still a bit if I really hammer it). It does seem like a bit of an odd jetting combo, given the previous posts, but for now it has improved my situation. Given the info in post #24, I might change my primary main jet out to something lower as well, to see how that runs.
Just thought I'd add my 2c and also once again thank the OP and others for adding to the fairly small base of info on carbed 3F's..
This is the second time in a few days Ive heard of re-jetting the 3F carb can have some significant results.
Ive seen stock jets just replaced with new ones and they were more in spec than the 40 year old items. Unknown if they change size or erode over time but its definitely something I want to look at down the track.
Ive seen stock jets just replaced with new ones and they were more in spec than the 40 year old items. Unknown if they change size or erode over time but its definitely something I want to look at down the track.
