34's on stock setup - it's done, now some advice... (6 Viewers)

[linuxgod]

Was looking at UCAs last night. It looks like there are only a few solutions, and the Australian solutions are right out for me since I want to do my suspension upgrade the week of the 24th:

Ball Joints
SPC: $577
SuperPro: $715 (Australian, what the Project 200 guys run, but is out of stock)
Snake Racing: $726 (Australian)
4WD1: $849 (Australian)

Uniball
Total Chaos: $753
Icon: $1470

I asked Tough Dog about UCAs and they specifically replied "you do not need to purchase arms as all of our 40-50mm lifts operate within the manufacturers specifications." Fox says they're required for lifts of 3" or more.

OTOH the Project 200 guys have the same Tough Dog suspension and said that even though they had it within spec the tires didn't necessarily wear evenly. Though in my experience I've had tires wear unevenly on factory vehicles with proper alignment if they're driven on washboard roads regularly, and looking at their build I think they did their suspension upgrade and then added bumper weight later, so I'm not 100% sure their wear is due entirely to the UCA's limits.

Am I foolish to skimp? ~$750 is a lot to spend if it's not strictly necessary for alignment, since I don't really need the additional wheel travel that these can provide. Also I saw this thread of someone who had managed to smash their UCA bolt through the fender and nearly into the brake lines on a hard hit due to the increased travel, which makes it sound like non-factory arms require taller bump stops.

I'd appreciate some real world experience from you guys running mild lifts (1-2") as to whether your shop was able to properly align your truck and if you noticed excessive tire wear or decreased handling characteristics when sticking with the factory UCA. And of course opinions are always welcome.

Thanks

 

[steenh]

I have the Ironman lift which is around 2.75" lift in the front and I tried it without the UCA and was not able to get the alignment in spec. I installed the TC UCA's and no issues after 65k miles.

My opinion is that you would be skimping at a minimum, and will likely see that its not really an option.

 

[TonyP]

The only reason I went with UCAs with my Tough Dog setup is to help clear 35s. I didn't see/feel any issues with the stock UCAs on my normal sane tire setup. If your tires will clear, the stock UCAs will be fine in my opinion.

That being said, I went with SPC due to their large castor adjustability and proven reliability. You probably won't benefit a ton (or at all) from a uniball setup.

 

[Willy beamin]

I've had a good experience thus far running the SPC's. Based out of Colorado, you can order through some national brand auto parts stores if you want as these guys wont sell direct, the units cost less, its a sealed uniball system, greaseable zerks fitting on the uniball housing, they are adjustable and SPC has knowledgeable techs that answer the phone and speak about their product and your application.

Might think about ordering the cam bolts (pictured below) so when your mechanic calls and says "hey man, your cam bolts are seized because we live in Chicago" you have it covered.

Tread wear 1st set of tires running the SPC's I put over 50,000 miles on 35" Nitto Trail Grapplers (which balance well believe it or not) took them off a few months back and the wear stands @ 15/32 , 13/32, 13/32, 9/32, 9/32 - new the tread is 21/32 - good luck deciding

 

[Climbingnut]

Has anyone had to rebuild a set of ball joints on their aftermarket UCA's? I'm trying to figure what kind of mileage one could expect from the ball joints. I'm sure it will be based upon how much abuse they take, but I'd like know what everyone's first hand experience is, especially versus the OEM UCA's and ball joints.

 

[TonyP]

I've had a good experience thus far running the SPC's. Based out of Colorado, you can order through some national brand auto parts stores if you want as these guys wont sell direct, the units cost less, its a sealed uniball system, greaseable zerks fitting on the uniball housing, they are adjustable and SPC has knowledgeable techs that answer the phone and speak about their product and your application.

Might think about ordering the cam bolts (pictured below) so when your mechanic calls and says "hey man, your cam bolts are seized because we live in Chicago" you have it covered.

Tread wear 1st set of tires running the SPC's I put over 50,000 miles on 35" Nitto Trail Grapplers (which balance well believe it or not) took them off a few months back and the wear stands @ 15/32 , 13/32, 13/32, 9/32, 9/32 - new the tread is 21/32 - good luck deciding
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Your UCA bolts were seized too? I thought only the lowers seize? Sheeeit, guess I'll place another order.

 

[Willy beamin]

No not uppers - sorry if that's how that reads - not my intent. the lowers (LCA's) is was speaking about for the seized cam bolts

 

[TeCKis300]

Gotta give it to you, but this is what I call dedication! This is all quite a slippery slope of mods necessary for just that little bit more here, and there... Mild to wild, I think most of the public would agree, that we all have a bit of this sickness.

Just can't leave stuff well enough alone.

 

[linuxgod]

Gotta give it to you, but this is what I call dedication! This is all quite a slippery slope of mods necessary for just that little bit more here, and there... Mild to wild, I think most of the public would agree, that we all have a bit of this sickness.

Just can't leave stuff well enough alone.

One man's dedication is another man's pride. Or foolishness.

Lift has been on my radar for a while, but I was expecting to wait until it wasn't the daily driver. When my wife gave me a hard time for considering downsizing tires to 33s and reducing the cool factor, I saw my opening.

 

[Mogwai]

Has anyone had to rebuild a set of ball joints on their aftermarket UCA's? I'm trying to figure what kind of mileage one could expect from the ball joints. I'm sure it will be based upon how much abuse they take, but I'd like know what everyone's first hand experience is, especially versus the OEM UCA's and ball joints.

Saw this post on Instagram a day or two ago, here's a TC UCA after at least 11 years. All original parts.

Edit: if you search on the interwebs there are lots and lots of reports about manufacturer defects, bad ball joints, issues with tolerances, and rust with SPC/Light Racing arms. I would not accept "reliability" as a given, just sayin'.

 

[Willy beamin]

that looks pretty good for being that old - wonder what climate it lived in

 

[Climbingnut]

Thanks @Mogwai! Those TC ball joints look really good for being 11 yrs old. I like Willy, wonder where they lived. I know that Slee sells the SPC and believes in them as such. I'm quite sure that UCA's are in my near future, but don't want to have to rebuild something within the first 100K miles. I would expect any aftermarket company to give the same or better quality and dependability that the OEM ball joints would give, or better.

 

[Mogwai]

that looks pretty good for being that old - wonder what climate it lived in

Good question, maybe I'll ask on Instagram. Also seemed like TC is assuming the user did very little maintenance and that greasing regularly might have yielded better results.

 

[linuxgod]

Saw this post on Instagram a day or two ago, here's a TC UCA after at least 11 years.

Edit: if you search on the interwebs there are lots and lots of reports about manufacturer defects, bad ball joints, issues with tolerances, and rust with SPC/Light Racing arms. I would not accept "reliability" as a given, just sayin'.

Yeah I seem to recall hearing a lot of ball joint-related complaints even on this forum. Yet another reason if I can avoid replacing UCAs and still get a good alignment I'm inclined to do so. Land Cruiser parts are generally top notch (save for the radiators and a few other known issues). If it ain't broke, I don't wanna fix it. (Now if I know it's gonna be broken when I'm done, then I'm proactive, hence the question here).

With +25 offset, I definitely don't need the UCA for clearance. I also don't feed I need it for additional wheel travel (and in fact I don't think the Tough Dog suspension would take any advantage of an extra 2" of travel anyway). It would truly be only to get back to factory alignment.

 

[ckkone]

You don't need aftermarket UCA. The 34s look great, can't wait to see it with the lift.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

G,

Per my quote to you:

"2) Tough Dog says you don't need to add UCAs with this kit". Other mfgs say anything over 30mm lift needs them." Not sure if you are quoting another source...


Since Tough Dog is an approved Toyota OEM replacement alternative in South Africa and the Middle East and dealerships are authorized by Toyota corporate to stock the Tough Dog suspension components and kits, they keep their newer vehicle suspension offerings within the Toyota suspension engineering guidelines for these regions.

J

 

[linuxgod]

G,

Per my quote to you:

"2) Tough Dog says you don't need to add UCAs with this kit". Other mfgs say anything over 30mm lift needs them." Not sure if you are quoting another source...


Since Tough Dog is an approved Toyota OEM replacement alternative in South Africa and the Middle East and dealerships are authorized by Toyota corporate to stock the Tough Dog suspension components and kits, they keep their newer vehicle suspension offerings within the Toyota suspension engineering guidelines for these regions.

J

Thanks Jason. I had emailed Tough Dog when I was conversing with you, so the quote that "you do not need to purchase arms as all of our 40-50mm lifts operate within the manufacturers specifications" was specifically from them. But then the Project 200 guys who are running the same kit said they had abnormal tire wear...

Based on their response and yours, and the fact that UCAs are $600-750, I'm leaning heavily towards skipping the UCA for now and re-evaluating if I start to see uneven wear.

 

[linuxgod]

Firestone 4116 helper airbag kit ordered. $82. Officially for a 1985 Buick Regal, but evidently the bags are 5.5" diameter by 11" tall, vs the stock 5.5" x 10" bags in the 4164 kit I originally bought (which use the updated 6009 air bags). Figured I need 1" more bag for about 1" more rear lift, and the Project 200 guys seem to confirm that.

For posterity:

The 4116 and 4129 kits both use the updated 6010 air bags. No idea why there are two kits with the same parts... but firestone told me both kits are discontinued, so someone who needs this size in the future might need to order a different kit and order the air bags separately. I couldn't use the same kit the Project 200 guys used because I already cut 4 rings off my rear bump stops to fit the bags, so no easy way to fit a bag which expects only 3 rings removed. But it appears each ring of the bump stops must be about 1", so there's some flexibility in the kit you choose if you know how tall your spring is when under normal compression:

• Kit 4164 uses air bag 6009, which is 5.5" diameter x 10" tall.
  • Use with stock suspension and remove 4 rings of the bump stops
  • Also can be used with 1-2" lifts with 3 rings of the bump stops removed
• Kits 4116 and 4129 use air bag 6010, which is 5.5" diameter x 11" tall. Those kits are supposedly discontinued.
  • Use with 1-2" lifts with 4 rings of the bump stops removed, i.e. if you had the original bags installed like me and then added a mild lift.
• Kit 4114 uses air bag 6008, which is 5.5" diameter x 9" tall.
  • Use with standard suspension with 3 rings of the bump stops removed

 

[AG200]

@AG200 if you're doing the 34" tire swap soon think about purchasing the kdss relo bracket just to have on hand in case you realize it is needed. It's not expensive and would be nice to have handy if needed - cheap insurance

@Willy beamin or anyone - I have the relo kit - where are the 6 bolts w spacers utilized and the two shorter ones? The sway bar bracket looks straight forward - no drilling.

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[TonyP]

@Willy beamin or anyone - I have the relo kit - where are the 6 bolts w spacers utilized and the two shorter ones? The sway bar bracket looks straight forward - no drilling.

View attachment 1497967

View attachment 1497971

Skid plate spacers