300 series revealed?

[coleAK]

It tells me that Toyota is still being stupid about hydrogen. It is ridiculous as a transport fuel. Take 100 kilowatt-hour (kwh) and put into a battery electric vehicle. When you turn on that BEV, you'll get about 90 kwh out of it. That is, the BEV is about 90% efficient.

In contrast, take 100 kwh equivalent of hydrogen, put it into a hydrogen fuel-cell car, and you get about 60 kwh equivalent out -- it is about 60% efficient.

Now consider where that hydrogen comes from that the hydrogen filling station is putting into your hydrogen fuel-cell car. The most common way is to crack water into hydrogen and oxygen by electrolysis. How do you do that? With electricity. The electrolysis process is only about 70-80% efficient.

So, with a hydrogen fuel cell car, you take 100 kwh of electricity and use it crack hydrogen from water. You then get about 80 kwh of hydrogen out. Now you take that 80 kwh of hydrogen and put it into your hydrogen fuel-cell car which is about 60% efficient. 80 * 60% = 48. So you put 100 kwh in at the beginning of the process and only got out 48 kwh of work.

Or, you could just take that 100 kwh of electricity that you would have used to crack hydrogen from water and instead put it directly into the battery of an electric vehicle. You will then get about 90 kwh out.

Hydrogen fuel-cells will never make up a significant portion of the vehicle fleet.

That is one of the most intelligent and rational arguments I’ve read in a long time. Well done.

The sad part is if 5-10 years ago Toyota would have stepped up and went strong into EV given their success with the Prius Tesla may not have made it. Now Tesla are so far out in front in terms of battery and management software it’s going to take at least decade for the others to catch up. It is staggering to me that after this last rally Tesla is now the most valuable auto company in the USA, worth more than GM, Ford, and FCA.

 

[Markuson]

the 80 and the current 70 series are the last of the REAL land cruisers!!!!!!!!!!!

Shh...
Don’t tell my 200...
It still believes it’s a real Land Cruiser...

 

[fjcruising]

It tells me that Toyota is still being stupid about hydrogen. It is ridiculous as a transport fuel. Take 100 kilowatt-hour (kwh) and put into a battery electric vehicle. When you turn on that BEV, you'll get about 90 kwh out of it. That is, the BEV is about 90% efficient.

In contrast, take 100 kwh equivalent of hydrogen, put it into a hydrogen fuel-cell car, and you get about 60 kwh equivalent out -- it is about 60% efficient.

Now consider where that hydrogen comes from that the hydrogen filling station is putting into your hydrogen fuel-cell car. The most common way is to crack water into hydrogen and oxygen by electrolysis. How do you do that? With electricity. The electrolysis process is only about 70-80% efficient.

So, with a hydrogen fuel cell car, you take 100 kwh of electricity and use it crack hydrogen from water. You then get about 80 kwh of hydrogen out. Now you take that 80 kwh of hydrogen and put it into your hydrogen fuel-cell car which is about 60% efficient. 80 * 60% = 48. So you put 100 kwh in at the beginning of the process and only got out 48 kwh of work.

Or, you could just take that 100 kwh of electricity that you would have used to crack hydrogen from water and instead put it directly into the battery of an electric vehicle. You will then get about 90 kwh out.

Hydrogen fuel-cells will never make up a significant portion of the vehicle fleet.

For many years I fought against the thought of a 100% battery operated vehicle simply because it changes the way we operate our vehicles. Today, with electric vehicles, road trips are slower, you have to plan in advance in addition to limiting your freedom (from a plug or infrastructure). I actually commend Toyota for trying the hydrogen angle as their whole goal seems to have been limiting the change in lifestyle from gas to electric. Thinking about it, we would have kept the same infrastructure (gas stations) and refueling would be somewhat similar to what it is today. If oil companies had to evolve to say relevant - hydrogen would be their key (which also leads me to think that developing a hydrogen vehicle is highly highly supported by oil companies planning for a shift for consumers). Unfortunate for them, electric seems to be ahead of this battle.

To think that Toyota hasn’t thought of this would be silly, I think their battery delivery technology is probably not far back from Tesla, however, there is still plenty of money to be made with out the large overhead costs that testla is facing by focusing on good ole’ fashion Dino fuel. Guaranteed an all gas Camry’s profit margin % would be double than its electric brother.

This rant is going long but it makes sense I promise.

Furthermore, jaguar presented their all electric option that by the numbers is similar to a Tesla but has been deemed a failure which has delayed Mercedes in introducing their all electric vehicles to the North American market. Tesla is ahead of the game with their autopilot which I think sets them apart from the competition- while this holds true, i think other auto manufactures already have the technology but their risk and liability is far greater than Tesla’s if their car decides to drive itself into a wall and catch on fire. Políticians gave Toyota a miserable time about a “sticky gas pedal” , couldn’t even imagine a self driving car that kills its occupants. Somehow, Tesla is held to a different standard despite multiple failures to their system .

 

[coleAK]

For many years I fought against the thought of a 100% battery operated vehicle simply because it changes the way we operate our vehicles. Today, with electric vehicles, road trips are slower, you have to plan in advance in addition to limiting your freedom (from a plug or infrastructure). I actually commend Toyota for trying the hydrogen angle as their whole goal seems to have been limiting the change in lifestyle from gas to electric. Thinking about it, we would have kept the same infrastructure (gas stations) and refueling would be somewhat similar to what it is today. If oil companies had to evolve to say relevant - hydrogen would be their key (which also leads me to think that developing a hydrogen vehicle is highly highly supported by oil companies planning for a shift for consumers). Unfortunate for them, electric seems to be ahead of this battle.

To think that Toyota hasn’t thought of this would be silly, I think their battery delivery technology is probably not far back from Tesla, however, there is still plenty of money to be made with out the large overhead costs that testla is facing by focusing on good ole’ fashion Dino fuel. Guaranteed an all gas Camry’s profit margin % would be double than its electric brother.

This rant is going long but it makes sense I promise.

Furthermore, jaguar presented their all electric option that by the numbers is similar to a Tesla but has been deemed a failure which has delayed Mercedes in introducing their all electric vehicles to the North American market. Tesla is ahead of the game with their autopilot which I think sets them apart from the competition- while this holds true, i think other auto manufactures already have the technology but their risk and liability is far greater than Tesla’s if their car decides to drive itself into a wall and catch on fire. Políticians gave Toyota a miserable time about a “sticky gas pedal” , couldn’t even imagine a self driving car that kills its occupants. Somehow, Tesla is held to a different standard despite multiple failures to their system .

Newest superchargers are 250kw. You get 200 miles of range in a 85kw battery in ~10min, with that you can go ~500 miles with one ~10 min stop.

 

[Markuson]

Newest superchargers are 250kw. You get 200 miles of range in a 85kw battery in ~10min, with that you can go ~500 miles with one ~10 min stop.

Curious about something that relates to another idea...
-What are the power-source requirements for these super-chargers to function, and how physically large are they? Put another way... What kind of power source must be available at a particular site in order to power the super-charger itself as it charges a vehicle?

 

[coleAK]

Curious about something that relates to another idea...
-What are the power-source requirements for these super-chargers to function, and how physically large are they? Put another way... What kind of power source must be available at a particular site in order to power the super-charger itself as it charges a vehicle?

Great question. About all I know is they are 480v and directly DC to DC couple to the DC battery, which I think is 400v? We don’t have any in Alaska but last month when we were in SoCal I stopped and checked a couple out. Saw one station attached to a huge solar array.

 

[M1911]

The whole road trip charging time thing is a canard. Most people simply don’t take long road trips. Most families have multiple vehicles so even if they do take road trips they don’t need both vehicles to be capable of doing a road trip.

I say this as someone who has taken 5k and 6.5k mile road trips in the last three years.

The vast majority of BEV drivers rarely, if ever, charge at a fast charger. Instead, the go home and charge overnight. When they get up the next morning for their commute to work, their car is already charged.

My wife rarely drives her car more than 100 miles per day. If we go on a road trip, we take my car. She could easily replace her car with a BEV.

No, I doubt Toyota is anywhere near Tesla in terms of an efficient BEV. I think this is very unfortunate because I dislike Tesla as a company and don’t care for their vehicles. But look at the efforts of every traditional automaker so far in terms of BEVs. The Mercedes EQC, Jaguar ipace, Porsche Taycan, Audi etron have all disappointed with very low efficiency in terms of kWh per mile.

 

[coleAK]

The whole road trip charging time thing is a canard. Most people simply don’t take long road trips. Most families have multiple vehicles so even if they do take road trips they don’t need both vehicles to be capable of doing a road trip.

I say this as someone who has take 5k and 6.5k mile road trips in the last three years.

Thevast majority of BEV drivers rarely, if ever, charge at a fast charger. Instead, the go home and charge overnight. When they get up the next morning for their commute to work, their car is already charged.

My wife rarely drives her car more than 100 miles per day. If we go on a road trip, we take my car. She could easily replace her car with a BEV.

No, I doubt Toyota is anywhere near Tesla in terms of an efficient BEV. I think this is very unfortunate because I dislike Tesla as a company and don’t care for their vehicles. But look at the efforts of every traditional automaker so far in terms of BEVs. The Mercedes EQC, Jaguar ipace, Porsche Taycan, Audi etron have all disappointed with very low efficiency in terms of kWh per mile.

My wife has had a Tesla for almost 4 years (an S then a 3). Other than a top off (plugged into RV 240/50) to get to 90% SOC for max hp at the drag strip We have only ever charged at our house. I tell everyone if you could wake up every day with a full tank how often would you need to stop and get gas? Rarely for the vast majority of people.

 

[GordJ]

Will you quit it? You’re ruining my ability to trash talk EV’s with all this “personal experience” and “logic” that you’re spewing. I’ve actually been defending EV‘s and after your reports I’ve considered one as our second vehicle after you made me realize that the ’can‘t do long trips’ argument is only applicable to the vehicle that we take for long trips. And if the EV’s were around when we needed commuter cars they would have been great. Thanks a lot you jerk.

 

[coleAK]

Will you quit it? You’re ruining my ability to trash talk EV’s with all this “personal experience” and “logic” that you’re spewing. I’ve actually been defending EV‘s and after your reports I’ve considered one as our second vehicle after you made me realize that the ’can‘t do long trips’ argument is only applicable to the vehicle that we take for long trips. And if the EV’s were around when we needed commuter cars they would have been great. Thanks a lot you jerk.

Just passing it along. 5 years ago I looked at them as pure novelty and thought Tesla was 50/50 for going under. Then my buddy got a model S. Being the fact that My wife and I are sports car addicts in remission (Porsche’s and track cars in the Before Kids era) first taste of instant torque in a somewhat practical car and we were hooked. Now We try and keep cars for a long time and she had been driving her MB e class for 12 years when we got the s. Two years later when the 3 came out we sold our s for not much less than we paid and got a 3 since she always felt like the S was huge. It was almost the same footprint as my LX. Now Our Long range AWD (not performance version) “commuter car” effortlessly does 0-60 in ~3.7 sec and quarters in 11’s. And from 30-60 will embarrass pretty much anything other than another EV.

 

[coleAK]

back on the 300. Not sure how valid this is. But this AM I’m sitting at the Lexus dealer getting my seat belt recall done. The sales manager who sold me my LX almost 6 years ago came over to try and get me to trade mine on one of the 2 new LC’s or 5 new LX’s they have on the lot. I mentioned the 300, he said he is being told 2023, hybrid, Lexus only in the US. Pretty much what everyone else is saying.

 

[Markuson]

back on the 300. Not sure how valid this is. But this AM I’m sitting at the Lexus dealer getting my seat belt recall done. The sales manager who sold me my LX almost 6 years ago came over to try and get me to trade mine on one of the 2 new LC’s or 5 new LX’s they have on the lot. I mentioned the 300, he said he is being told 2023, hybrid, Lexus only in the US. Pretty much what everyone else is saying.

Will be interesting to see whether they stick with the tricky AHC.... If they didn’t...and left it more like the LC suspension...it might be less a barrier for heavy modding. And yes I know...you can mod the LX... but it’s a limiting factor.

I’m still hoping that eventually, they decide to keep the LC nameplate alive in the US market. On the other hand... I’d be a senior citizen by the time I’d be able to afford a used 300 anyway...

 

[NearJetties]

Please let them keep the LC alive...ugh even if it’s just continuing to sell the 200 with minor upgrades and the occasional engine/tranny upgrade. And a lower trim level.

LX they should continue to evolve it and differentiate it from the LC. I’ll never buy one post the big grill update and never plan on it in the future. For the majority of people that buy it ahc and hybrid makes perfect sense.

 

[bloc]

Please let them keep the LC alive...ugh even if it’s just continuing to sell the 200 with minor upgrades and the occasional engine/tranny upgrade. And a lower trim level.

LX they should continue to evolve it and differentiate it from the LC. I’ll never buy one post the big grill update and never plan on it in the future. For the majority of people that buy it ahc and hybrid makes perfect sense.

For those willing to cut up the stock tupperware the 16+ LX look great with a steel bumper, in my opinion. But yeah, on top of that you’d definitely need wheels, sliders, most likely rear bumper, and even then we are talking about wheeling and possibly pin striping a NICE large suv.

 

[coleAK]

Will interesting to see whether they stick with the tricky AHC.... If they didn’t...and left it more like the LC suspension...it might be less a barrier for heavy modding. And yes I know...you can mod the LX... but it’s a limiting factor.

I’m still hoping that eventually, they decide to keep the LC nameplate alive in the US market. On the other hand... I’d be a senior citizen by the time I’d be able to afford a used 300 anyway...

I hope if they do go the LX only in the Us then give more options: AHC, 3rd row, engines,... I’m with you.

 

[VooDoo2]

Will be interesting to see whether they stick with the tricky AHC.... If they didn’t...and left it more like the LC suspension...it might be less a barrier for heavy modding. And yes I know...you can mod the LX... but it’s a limiting factor.

I’m still hoping that eventually, they decide to keep the LC nameplate alive in the US market. On the other hand... I’d be a senior citizen by the time I’d be able to afford a used 300 anyway...

They dumped AHC in the sahara's here in AU as nobody wanted it and it was often removed in the first 10k for something decent. Lexus hung on a bit longer but those are a tiny market compared to the 200. They did get the diesel though

 

[TonyP]

A hybrid 300 doesn't interest me.
A fully electric Land Cruiser certainly does but I think we're at least another generation away from that.
Problem is, Toyota currently has zero fully electric vehicles in their lineup. The Mirai doesn't count. It's the HD-DVD of the car world.

 

[texas]

Toyota Land Cruiser News and Reviews | Motor1.com

Get the latest on new Toyota Land Cruiser models including first drives, in-depth reviews, concept car photos, new features, recalls and more.

www.motor1.com

 

[VooDoo2]

Toyota Land Cruiser News and Reviews | Motor1.com

Get the latest on new Toyota Land Cruiser models including first drives, in-depth reviews, concept car photos, new features, recalls and more.

www.motor1.com

Power figures quoted are wrong. It’s for a NA 3.5 not a twin turbo and they haven’t added the hybrid power to it either.

 

[NearJetties]

Doubt the diesel is dead in other markets, just the petrol v8s.

also, highly doubt they’ll do a CVT trans.