2H Wont Start

[Cable]

Hello all,

I recently got my HJ60 (UK spec and my first ever diesel) and as the original front leaf springs were seriously sagging I decided to change them. What should have been a relatively easy job was made a lot harder by the incorrect parts being sent to me. Basically it took me 2 weeks to get it back together.

On trying to start her up, after this fortnight of standing, it didn't want to know. Being a little naive I kept on turning her over waiting for some miraculous start, but it never came, which didn't do my batteries any favours.

Realising something was amiss and my basic understanding of diesels requiring fuel and heat for start up prompted me to check a few things. After a brief read of the the Haynes manual and threads on this forum I began with checking the primer pump, which I had notice was leaking diesel a few weeks back and upon tightening in it's stowed position stopped leaking. Anyway I popped it out and repeatedly pumped, meeting very little resistence. After a while and a few squelches the thing started spewing fuel around the side of the piston in a way that resembled a geyser. I then bled the fuel filter nipple and the injectors. Tried start her again and failed.

With the batteries dead I put them on charge and did some digging on here and concluded that the primer pump was to blame, leaking air into the system whilst stationary for 2 weeks, allowing the diesel to run back to the tank.

With further reasearch I ordered the Bosch primer pump 2 447 010 038. This I fitted today with very little fuss, and again bled the fuel filter nipple and the injectors. But still the thing wont fire. I'm getting a bit of white smoke and a very slight, occasional shudder from the engine. I obviously don't want to keep wasting the battery trying, if there is something else I'm missing. Maybe I need to bleed more out of the injectors, as I'm not really 100% sure when they are air free?? The fuel filter looks brand new so I'm discounting that. The glow plugs don't look to old either though I will try and remove them to test. Maybe the mucho wacking with a big hammer during the leaf spring change has loosened debris in the tank, but surely it would atleast run a little bit?? Very confused guys and I'd much appreciate any help.

sorry for the mega long essay

Cheers

Neil

 

[darthvincor]

The only thing that ever kept my 2H from starting was some electrical faults in the glow plug wiring.
When you turn the key to On, does it show a drop in voltage? (which indicates the glow plugs using some of the 12 volts)

 

[Lost]

x2 on the glow plug wires, they are old and corosion is sometimes overlooked

does the motor turn over?

 

[RisingSunLCS]

I not sure how much bleeding you did after the install of the Bosch pump. I have accidentally ran my 2H 60 out of diesel twice (faulty fuel gauge). Both times it took me at least 20mins to finally get it started. If its at the point where it somewhat fires but stumbles then quits. You are close.....then it runs for 5 sec...then 15....then 1/2 a minute. After all that it runs on its own. 2H's do not like air in the fuel system at all. Super temperamental. Also, be wary of the leak off hose (that comes off the leak-off rail @ towards the front of motor) that goes back to the IP. Sometimes those are known to be faulty and pull in air.

I also agree with a glow system that isn't working properly. Could be the issue but, if it started fine before. I could be pulling air into the fuel system somewhere.

 

[Tapage]

first you will have much more help in the diesel section ..

1. glow plugs .. when you put your key in the glow position you should ear the EDIC relay activating ( clack ! ) and your V meter going down ..

2, With extra pair of hands help in with the key in that position you should check V at the bush bar too ..

3. If that's working then you must move on your glow plugs

4. to be honest if you have healthy engine with good comp numbers, it should run even without glow plugs in a warm weather ( over 22ºC or so .. ( aprox 70ºF )

5, Then you need to check if you have diesel at the primer and at the filter .. then at the injectors

6, Least not last .. air in the line .. 2H it's pretty bad and sensitive to have diesel in the line .. then you be sure proper bleeding to eliminate any air bubble in the line up to injectors

 

[Tim-HJ61]

Tapage is right on all counts. Luckily we both have diesels and inhabit here too.

You cannot rely on cranking to push fuel through like a petrol engine, you need to bleed every step.

Open the bleed valve on your filter.
Pump the primer until only diesel comes out.

Close the bleed valve.

On the side of the injection pump at the back end of the injection pump, there is a plug. It looks different to a normal bleed valve.
Undo it as you are pumping the primer pump. This bleeds the air out of the IP.
When no air bubbles, close plug

Undo each injector line at the injector. Undo it half a turn, until fuel or air escapes as you pump the primer. When there is no air, move onto the next one.

Then turn it over on the starter.

If you're keen, you could try using the starter at each stage. If you're unlucky you'll have to bleed all six before it will start.

Enjoy the experience. With this under your belt you won't want to do it ever again

Tim

 

[Tim-HJ61]

The reason why air is a problem is that compresses differently to diesel. Your IP is pushing 3000psi so the air compresses, and doesn't move along the line unless the way is open, hence the bleed valve which allows free flow under minimal pressure.

I am wondering why it would not start after two weeks. Maybe your primer pump was the reason. Also check any fuel lines for cracking and replace them if they appear anything but good. There is an awkward to see rubber hose right at the tank too. You 'may' have a water trap on the chassis, also with hoses that will need checking. Worst case is there is a gauze filter inside the fuel tank, requiring tank removal to clear it.

Let's hope some better bleeding will help. White smoke means ,something' is getting through.

Tim

 

[Cable]

Thanks guys,Could a moderator kindly move this thread to the Diesel section. My error...Maybe I'm cracking open the injectors a little too much as I get a bit of diesel squirting out the top of the nut rather than bubbling out of the side???

Is the water seperator the thing that looks like a swirl pot bolted to the chassis, torwards the tank? Should I open the nut on the bottom to see if there is a build up of water?

I will check all fuel lines over the weekend for any signs of degradation or leaks.Not checked the voltage when warming the glow plugs. I will do that tonight whilst going for another bleed session.The following might also me worth a mention:After bleeding the fuel filter nipple, bolt on the side of the pump and injectors (whilst cranking the engine over) I can still pump the primer pump. Should this go rock solid if all the air was out of the system? I ensured the check valve was still in place when changing the primer pump.

Also noticed last thing after trying to start her that the coolant pipe that runs along the top of the engine was in contact with the bus-bar. I've rectified this now.Cheers Neil

 

[Cable]

Sorry to be a pain but is there anyway to edit a thread as I copied and pasted the text into my last post and it seems to have lost all the spacing?

 

[Tim-HJ61]

Thanks guys,Could a moderator kindly move this thread to the Diesel section. My error...Maybe I'm cracking open the injectors a little too much as I get a bit of diesel squirting out the top of the nut rather than bubbling out of the side??? Is the water seperator the thing that looks like a swirl pot bolted to the chassis, torwards the tank? Should I open the nut on the bottom to see if there is a build up of water?I will check all fuel lines over the weekend for any signs of degradation or leaks.Not checked the voltage when warming the glow plugs. I will do that tonight whilst going for another bleed session.The following might also me worth a mention:After bleeding the fuel filter nipple, bolt on the side of the pump and injectors (whilst cranking the engine over) I can still pump the primer pump. Should this go rock solid if all the air was out of the system? I ensured the check valve was still in place when changing the primer pump.Also noticed last thing after trying to start her that the coolant pipe that runs along the top of the engine was in contact with the bus-bar. I've rectified this now.Cheers Neil

Don't fret Neil, you'll get the hang of it soon.

No you're not cracking too much. Just do one at a time and pump until the injector is free flowing diesel. Nip it up and move to the next.

Yes that is the water separator.

The primer should be firmer with the bleed valve closed than open. I don't recall it going rock solid.
The primer is only that, a primer. It plays no function when the engine is running.

There is also a gauze filter in the banjo connection on the inlet of the primer pump, but first thing is to get the ol' girl started, then look for leaks. If you pulling too many things off now you may create more problems. If it used to run before this hassle, it will run again. Generally all that stops a diesel is a blocked fuel filter. Oh, and air leaks....

Tim

 

[Tapage]

if there still an air problem I should start air bleed trouble shooting backwards .. from the IP to the back .. to do that use a diesel nato can and use gravity to feed the IP .. but that's after all previously test ..

 

[Cable]

I honestly think I've got the air out of the system now as I've bled everything multiple times and the injectors seem to be squirting as they should. Getting white smoke when trying to start it, so maybe the glow plugs are not doing their job whether it be the plugs themselves or the wiring in between. It's the 14volt system with the 2-3 second warm up time.

I was thinking of directly connecting the bus-bar to the battery. Any advice on this? Can I just use use a jump lead briefly or would this do some damage?

Anyway, thanks guys for all of your advice.

Neil

 

[Tim-HJ61]

There is some spray you can get that might get it going. Aerostart is one brand from memory, or the appropriately named 'start ya basta*d' in auto shops in Australia! You spray it into the air intake while turning over the engine. I think it's ether.

Tim

 

[Tapage]

Neil which it's your temp now .?

Coz even without glow plugs a healthy 2H would start ( badly and smoky ) after several attempts .. mine does ...

And yes you can jump V from batt to the bushbar .. ( careful with this ) but you would need extra pair of hands to help to start engine while you are doing that ..

Extra care with that cable ( jump cable ) coz gonna get hot !

 

[Cable]

Neil which it's your temp now .?

peak temp today will be a positively balmy 14 degree C

Gotta repair a perished heater hose today. Will have go at starting later.

thanks guys

Neil

 

[rove_mcanus]

Check the electrics. There is a 3 position lever on the pump Stop-drive-start. It should be in the center, drive position when running. It should cycle to the start position when you turn the ignition on. It's controlled by an electric motor (edic) via a pushrod.

then check the fuel prime

Last the glow plugs. Although even with no glow plugs it should start with a few cranks even at 14 Celsius.

 

[Cable]

Refitted batteries after leaving them to charge overnight. Turned the ignition and started instantly. Very bizzare!

I had noticed while changing the coolant hose that the metal strip that bolts to the bus-bar wasn't attached very well. Maybe this was it??

Anyway dudes, thanks for your help and advice

 

[Cable]

I had noticed while changing the coolant hose that the metal strip that bolts to the bus-bar was attached very well.

that was meant to read 'wasn't attached very well'

 

[Tim-HJ61]

Phew. Pleased to hear it.
NOthing like a combination of problems to add to the intrigue

What a way to earn your diesel stripes!!


Tim

 

[Cable]

Phew. Pleased to hear it.
NOthing like a combination of problems to add to the intrigue

What a way to earn your diesel stripes!!


Tim

Yeah, thanks for the help Tim. As you say it's a good way of learning the ins and outs of a diesel. Made me also realise not to ignore old and perished hoses/seals etc. I will give the whole fuel line a once over to make sure all is good. Don't want to be chasing the zero again.

Cheers

Neil