2H Rebuild

[Cowboy45]

Hey everyone my dad/@ceylonfj40nut and I/@Cowboy45 are rebuilding a 2H engine and we plan on putting a turbo on it. The engine will be put in my 45 or as we call her Old Landy. Old Landy Build Thread: Builds - Old Landy: An HJ45 Story/Build Thread. This past weekend we started taking apart the 2H and everything looks really good, but we had some concerns so we thought it would be a good idea to ask y’all diesel folks about it.

• When we were taking the engine apart the surface of the lifters were very very smooth, but there seems to be spider-web type cracking on the surface. We were just wondering if these cracks in some way could have affected the Cam Lobes?
• The other thing we found was there seemed to be a ring of carbon build up on the top quarter of the cylinder bore. We were just wondering if there was a special way to clean that, and if that is some kind of problem.

This is all very new to me (I am 13) so your help is much appreciated!

 

[Nostradamus]

Dude. So cool to see a 13 y/o wrenching on an old school rig. Very impressed. Keep up the strong work.

 

[gerg]

I wouldn't worry about the carbon too much. It's where the rings start seating on the cylinders when the piston reaches the top of its stroke. Top dead center they call it. The rest of the cylinders get wiped clean by the rings but because the rings sit lower in the piston it doesnt make contact all the way up. If you're want you can clean it gently with some scotch brite. I find a shop vac works wonders for sucking the junk out of cylinders when I work on them. Compressed air just blows the junk on another part of the work area.

Will you be doing a full rebuild on your engine? Have you talked with your dad about reinforced alfin pistons? Now would be a great time to change them.

I've run lifters that looked worse than that with pitting and such. These old engines run relatively soft valve springs so they don't put a lot of force onto the lifter face your looking at. Replacing them would be a good idea but if your on a budget I'd run them. If they haven't come apart in the last 40yrs I don't think there going to do it any time soon. It is possible to replace them later when the engine is back together in the truck. I've looked into haveing them resurfaced and my machinist said they are too thin unfortunately. Well at least they are on a 3B, the 4 cylinder version of the motor your working on.

Here's a link for some parts.
Valve lifter 2H

On a side note, my daughters are 10 and 12 and we just picked up a 1978 BJ40 were restoring. Wear a mask when your spraying or grinding stuff and it's a lot easier to take a pair of nitrile gloves off as oppose to try and wash your hands clean every time you work and always wear eye protection. Cuts heal and you can live ok missing a few fingers but an eye you cannot.

Enjoy!
g

Edit. I just noticed you have gloves on. Awsome.

 

[FJBen]

Did you ever compression test this engine?

IMO, Those lifters need replaced, they look pretty worn. If you are taking everything out, make sure to number every lifter/rod/part for each cylinder as they all wear together. That said I'm sure they would run, but if your plans are to turbo this and have a great, reliable rig, I would get this engine as fresh and new as possible for another 30+ years of good reliable service.

Choices...
One is to freshen the engine, the other to rebuild and not worry about it for a long time.

the rabbit hole;

From the advice I received and read about...If you are going to replace lifters, especially on an older motor, you would ideally want to:
regrind/replace cam: it will have wear spots per each lifter
replace CAM bearings: regrinding cam, put new bearings in
Pushrods: should be OK unless out of spec/bent...but if you have new ones in that part stash, use them and spare the old.
Rocker arms: may need resurfaced, depends on how they look
Head: If you are replacing all that, you might as well recondition your best head, new seals, springs (if out of spec), check warpage, freeze plugs, find a good, reputable shop. The PO of my rig paid over a grand for a head "rebuild" and con-rod bearing install and both are basically crap before even being installed. My shop is fixing the mess the other shops did.


That gets your top end all sorted...now
Block: might as well pull apart, check wear, clean, magna flux for cracks, I'm not sure if yours is an early Sleeved 2H, or a later. I can't tell from pictures, and I can't see the full timing cover to see.
Pistons: as @gerg stated, this would be a great time for Alfin pistons, new bearings, crank bearing, bearings all around
Crank: get the crank cleaned, buffed, ground if need be, get Crank bearings AFTER you check the crank so you don't have to order another set of undersize bearings from australia. Ask me how I know.

Fueling: Send that pump and injectors to a good shop and let them clean, set, rebuild.


You will have PLENTY of work to do on the truck while the engine work is being completed.

Do you have 1 engine or 2 to work with? You could always "freshen" one to have a running rig, and build the other. I know you have a parts stash of unobtanium so that is awesome.

 

[Cowboy45]

Did you ever compression test this engine?

IMO, Those lifters need replaced, they look pretty worn. If you are taking everything out, make sure to number every lifter/rod/part for each cylinder as they all wear together. That said I'm sure they would run, but if your plans are to turbo this and have a great, reliable rig, I would get this engine as fresh and new as possible for another 30+ years of good reliable service.

Choices...
One is to freshen the engine, the other to rebuild and not worry about it for a long time.

the rabbit hole;

From the advice I received and read about...If you are going to replace lifters, especially on an older motor, you would ideally want to:
regrind/replace cam: it will have wear spots per each lifter
replace CAM bearings: regrinding cam, put new bearings in
Pushrods: should be OK unless out of spec/bent...but if you have new ones in that part stash, use them and spare the old.
Rocker arms: may need resurfaced, depends on how they look
Head: If you are replacing all that, you might as well recondition your best head, new seals, springs (if out of spec), check warpage, freeze plugs, find a good, reputable shop. The PO of my rig paid over a grand for a head "rebuild" and con-rod bearing install and both are basically crap before even being installed. My shop is fixing the mess the other shops did.


That gets your top end all sorted...now
Block: might as well pull apart, check wear, clean, magna flux for cracks, I'm not sure if yours is an early Sleeved 2H, or a later. I can't tell from pictures, and I can't see the full timing cover to see.
Pistons: as @gerg stated, this would be a great time for Alfin pistons, new bearings, crank bearing, bearings all around
Crank: get the crank cleaned, buffed, ground if need be, get Crank bearings AFTER you check the crank so you don't have to order another set of undersize bearings from australia. Ask me how I know.

Fueling: Send that pump and injectors to a good shop and let them clean, set, rebuild.


You will have PLENTY of work to do on the truck while the engine work is being completed.

Do you have 1 engine or 2 to work with? You could always "freshen" one to have a running rig, and build the other. I know you have a parts stash of unobtanium so that is awesome.

Yes I agree with what you are saying, and we do plan on doing everything thing you speak about. Rather to be safe then sorry. To answer your question we do have the H engine in Old Landy right now and a couple others laying around, but we are not focused on that one just yet. Once the enigne is done we are just going to start on breaking down Old Landy and getting her ready for paint and doing some “beauty treatment”! As for the unobtanium that was the coolest thing to find all those OEM parts in that box/Christmas came early!! Thanks for the advice and great tips.

 

[Cowboy45]

I wouldn't worry about the carbon too much. It's where the rings start seating on the cylinders when the piston reaches the top of its stroke. Top dead center they call it. The rest of the cylinders get wiped clean by the rings but because the rings sit lower in the piston it doesnt make contact all the way up. If you're want you can clean it gently with some scotch brite. I find a shop vac works wonders for sucking the junk out of cylinders when I work on them. Compressed air just blows the junk on another part of the work area.

Will you be doing a full rebuild on your engine? Have you talked with your dad about reinforced alfin pistons? Now would be a great time to change them.

I've run lifters that looked worse than that with pitting and such. These old engines run relatively soft valve springs so they don't put a lot of force onto the lifter face your looking at. Replacing them would be a good idea but if your on a budget I'd run them. If they haven't come apart in the last 40yrs I don't think there going to do it any time soon. It is possible to replace them later when the engine is back together in the truck. I've looked into haveing them resurfaced and my machinist said they are too thin unfortunately. Well at least they are on a 3B, the 4 cylinder version of the motor your working on.

Here's a link for some parts.
Valve lifter 2H

On a side note, my daughters are 10 and 12 and we just picked up a 1978 BJ40 were restoring. Wear a mask when your spraying or grinding stuff and it's a lot easier to take a pair of nitrile gloves off as oppose to try and wash your hands clean every time you work and always wear eye protection. Cuts heal and you can live ok missing a few fingers but an eye you cannot.

Enjoy!
g

Edit. I just noticed you have gloves on. Awsome.

That’s really good to know that the lifters won’t be a big problem. I think we might just replace them just to be safe, but good to know for future reference. I also like the shop vac idea a lot, because I don’t want to even risk scratching the bore. Safety is also number one priority in the barn as I like to say it “safety is a full time - don’t make it a part time practice”! As to your daughters that’s super cool! I have realized that a lot of kids these days don’t work with there hands or do anything physical so to see other kids doing this is really cool. I am super thankful to my dad @ceylonfj40nut for for giving me the disease; I have no regrets! To answer tour question the engine looks pretty good so probably not a full rebuild, but almost. And yes I will talk to my dad and do some research on those Alfin Pistons! Thanks for the great tips and advice!

 

[gerg]

Replacing them is a good idea. Although you never know what kind of budget folks are working with. I agree it's great to get some hands on experience working with tools. It trickles down to many aspects of every day life.
g

 

[Cowboy45]

Replacing them is a good idea. Although you never know what kind of budget folks are working with. I agree it's great to get some hands on experience working with tools. It trickles down to many aspects of every day life.
g

Haha! My dad says the same thing! And since this is going to be my car he wants it to be really safe so replacing them is probably a good idea!

 

[ceylonfj40nut]

All,

Thanks for the wonderful support and advice for @Cowboy45. I am blessed to have him and my other son Liam getting to be familiar with their hands around all things purposeful.

I posted a bunch of pics on pg28/29 of thread below that gives you an idea of the condition of each of the cylinder bores. Overall looks fantastic.

Builds - Old Landy: An HJ45 Story/Build Thread

I have also posted some pics of the rocker arm pads by cylinder (I= intake, E= exhaust)

for comment.

@gerg I have seen good run time with 2H pistons in a 2HT config under mild boost (<10 psig) and a robust engine cooling system. I also share a thread on pg 28/29 that highlights issues with 12HTs.

We will tear the engine down and inspect/ measure to see how to manage the rabbit hole tendencies. I would like to reuse as much items that are still within spec.

 

[ceylonfj40nut]

Rocker arms 4-6

Overall looks great!

 

[gerg]

That's a tuff one for sure when rebuilding these engines. You open up a half million mile engine and well.... Everything is going to be worn and your can't just replace everything. I usually focus on the items that are well known to kill the motor I'm working on and stuff that looks like it just about to break. the fella that ground my cam told me in no uncertain terms that modern oils are hard on flat tappit engines like ours. He said in the last 10 yrs he has seen tons of failing cams that never had issues before with older generation oils. He recomended zink additive at the least. I run zink and moly additives personally to minimize cam, lifter and rocker wear. If yould use new stock Pistons and tuned it with conservative egts I don't see why you wouldn't get a relatively long life out of them. Just keep that aluminum cool. Retard the timing and keep the peak cylinder pressures lower. Intercooling would be great but sometimes it's tuff to fit.

 

[waiting for time]

You might want to look at this video for cleaning up the cilinders.

 

[FJBen]

Thats some pretty good wear on those exhaust valve sides, especially cylinder 3. My guess is that that the valves were set too tight for a while which created that wear. Most I think would be ok, but some of those look like they need replaced.

 

[waiting for time]

Thats some pretty good wear on those exhaust valve sides, especially cylinder 3. My guess is that that the valves were set too tight for a while which created that wear. Most I think would be ok, but some of those look like they need replaced.

At least it wasn’t used hard or the valve would have been burned.

 

[roscoFJ73]

The other thing we found was there seemed to be a ring of carbon build up on the top quarter of the cylinder bore. We were just wondering if there was a special way to clean that, and if that is some kind of problem.

Generally, the cleaniless of the combustion chamber and where you pointed is related to burnt fuel and engine oil coming together. Doesnt look real bad for an old 2H

We were just wondering if these cracks in some way could have affected the Cam Lobes?

They look like heat has caused it. Its hard to see them getting that hot though.

 

[Cowboy45]

Dude. So cool to see a 13 y/o wrenching on an old school rig. Very impressed. Keep up the strong work.

Sorry this is kind of a late response, but thank you it means a lot!

 

[ceylonfj40nut]

@Cowboy45 and his brother did some measurements on the cylinder head components. They got a good crash course in validating if the components are within FSM. Not bad at all for a 300k mile engine. Blew us away. Have some pics of their day. @Cowboy45 posted similar content in the Old Landy thread.

Summary data below:

Cylinder 1 - Good

• Spring Trueness
• Inner Spring Intake ( 44.40mm / FSM - 44.30mm)
• Outer Spring Intake (48.12mm / FSM - 48.10mm)
• Inner Spring Exhaust ( 44.27mm / FSM - 44.30mm)
  
• Outer Spring Exhaust ( 48.11mm / FSM - 48.10mm)
  
• Valve Stem Diameter Intake ( Avg. 9.00mm / FSM 8.973mm -8.989mm)
• Valve Stem Diameter Exhaust ( Avg. 8.99mm / FSM 8.954mm - 8.970mm )
• Stem Guide Diameter ( 9.03mm / FSM 9.101mm - 9.030mm )
• Valve Oil Clearance Intake ( 0.03mm / FSM - 0.10mm MAX)
• Valve Oil Clearance Exhaust ( 0.04mm / FSM - 0.12mm MAX)

Cylinder 2 - Good

• Spring Trueness
• Inner Spring Intake ( 44.00mm / FSM - 44.30mm)
• Outer Spring Intake ( 48.19mm / FSM - 48.10mm)
• Inner Spring Exhaust ( 43.86mm /FSM - 44.30mm)
  
• Outer Spring Exhaust ( 47.99mm / FSM - 48.10mm)
  
• Valve Stem Diameter Intake ( Avg. 9.00mm / FSM 8.973mm -8.989mm)
• Valve Stem Diameter Exhaust ( Avg. 9.01mm / FSM 8.954mm - 8.970mm )
• Stem Guide Diameter ( 9.03mm / FSM 9.101mm - 9.030mm )
• Valve Oil Clearance Intake ( 0.03mm/ FSM - 0.10mm MAX)
• Valve Oil Clearance Exhaust ( 0.02mm/ FSM - 0.12mm MAX)

Cylinder 3 - Good

• Spring Trueness
• Inner Spring Intake ( 44.99mm / FSM - 44.30mm)
• Outer Spring Intake ( 48.22mm / FSM - 48.10mm)
• Inner Spring Exhaust ( 44.03mm / FSM - 44.30mm)
  
• Outer Spring Exhaust ( 48.08mm / FSM - 48.10mm)
  
• Valve Stem Diameter Intake ( Avg. 8.98mm / FSM 8.973mm -8.989mm)
• Valve Stem Diameter Exhaust ( Avg. 8.99mm / FSM 8.954mm - 8.970mm )
• Stem Guide Diameter ( 9.03mm / FSM 9.101mm - 9.030mm )
• Valve Oil Clearance Intake ( 0.05mm / FSM - 0.10mm MAX )
• Valve Oil Clearance Exhaust ( 0.04mm / FSM - 0.12mm MAX )

Cylinder 4 - Good

• Spring Trueness
• Inner Spring Intake ( 44.22mm / FSM - 44.30mm)
• Outer Spring Intake ( 48.02mm / FSM - 48.10mm)
• Inner Spring Exhaust ( 44.12mm / FSM - 44.30mm)
  
• Outer Spring Exhaust ( 48.10mm / FSM - 48.10mm)
  
• Valve Stem Diameter Intake ( Avg. 8.98mm / FSM 8.973mm -8.989mm)
• Valve Stem Diameter Exhaust ( Avg. 8.99mm / FSM 8.954mm - 8.970mm )
• Stem Guide Diameter ( 9.03mm / FSM 9.101mm - 9.030mm )
• Valve Oil Clearance Intake ( 0.05mm / FSM - 0.10mm MAX )
• Valve Oil Clearance Exhaust ( 0.04mm / FSM - 0.12mm MAX )

Cylinder 5 - Good

• Spring Trueness
• Inner Spring Intake ( 44.02mm / FSM - 44.30mm)
• Outer Spring Intake ( 48.28mm / FSM - 48.10mm)
• Inner Spring Exhaust ( 43.99mm / FSM - 44.30mm)
  
• Outer Spring Exhaust ( 48.30mm / FSM - 48.10mm)
  
• Valve Stem Diameter Intake ( Avg. 8.99mm / FSM 8.973mm -8.989mm)
• Valve Stem Diameter Exhaust ( Avg. 8.99mm/ FSM 8.954mm - 8.970mm )
• Stem Guide Diametere ( 9.03mm / FSM 9.101mm - 9.030mm )
• Valve Oil Clearance Intake ( 0.04mm / FSM - 0.10mm MAX )
• Valve Oil Clearance Exhaust ( 0.04mm / FSM - 0.12mm MAX )

Cylinder 6 - Good

• Spring Trueness
• Inner Spring Intake ( 44.30mm / FSM - 44.30mm)
• Outer Spring Intake ( 48.19mm / FSM - 48.10mm)
• Inner Spring Exhaust ( 44.10mm / FSM - 44.30mm)
  
• Outer Spring Exhaust ( 48.13mm / FSM - 48.10mm)
  
• Valve Stem Diameter Intake ( Avg. 8.98mm / FSM 8.973mm -8.989mm)
• Valve Stem Diameter Exhaust ( Avg. 8.99mm / FSM 8.954mm - 8.970mm )
• Stem Guide Diametere ( 9.03mm / FSM 9.101mm - 9.030mm )
• Valve Oil Clearance Intake ( 0.05mm / FSM - 0.10mm MAX)
• Valve Oil Clearance Exhaust ( 0.04mm / FSM - 0.12mm MAX)

 

[ceylonfj40nut]

A few more pics. I pitched in on valve guide measurements

 

[ceylonfj40nut]

Based on above, we decided head just needs a valve and seat grind plus new stem seals. Boys learned a lot at the machine shop. Mario gave them a tour on “how it is done”. I did ask if the boys could intern with them. Looks like they will spend a week for the summer. Free labor for them. Tamales for lunch. I wish I could have done similar at their age.

 

[ceylonfj40nut]

Also posting some pics @Cowboy45 took on the injectors. Look good, but will plan on getting them rebuilt. Notice anything off?