2F Ignition updgrade

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onemanarmy

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Hate to start a new thread, but searching (for me anyway) is not getting my anywhere fast...

So, my 1977 stock 2F (well I have a Trollhole carb) in my FJ55 will not fire.....cranks all day long, but won't catch. Carb is getting fuel, tried starting fluid in the carb and down a few spark plug holes, but no luck. It ran BEAUTIFULLY until yesterday morning, now won't even try to start. Not even a hiccup.

I haven't narrowed down the issue, may be fuel related, but I don't think so.

Thinking spark. I've been eyeing the stock ignition system for a while now, and it just looks aged. I haven't touched it due to not fully understanding all the parts of the system, but am trying to soak it all in.

I've been reading up on the Trollhole electronic distributors, and may go that route, but want to get my ride started first, and if I'm going to be replacing parts, I'd like to upgrade. Not too concerned with factory parts or looks at this point.

If it does come down to weak/no spark:

So, my first question, what is the best method of testing the individual parts of the ignition system to track down the culprit? I can test the resistance on the coil, but if that checks good, then what?

Second, I believe there is an external resistor sitting on top of the coil. Can I just buy a 12 volt coil and bypass all the extra wires? What else can I buy to simplify the system, but keeping the factory distributor at this time?

Lastly, does any have any good pics of updated ignition systems or parts they bought as to get a better understanding of what needs to be done and how to wire it up?

I'll be working on it this weekend, and will post pics and report findings.

Thanks
 
first thing i would do is see if you have power going to the coil
 
Power to the coil first followed by spark coming out of the coil to the distributor. Then you can start wondering about the distributor. I really like my TH electronic distributor a lot. Simple :banana: job. Good luck.
 
Tools R Us said:
Then; are the points opening, gaped correctly?
Click to expand...

heck if I know. where to look?

I'll dig into the FSM along with any info I get here.

All wires are connected, should be getting 12V everywhere 12V is needed. No interruptions of power to the coil, just by visual inspection.

Can I check for spark at the plugs by myself?
 
No offense taken.

Not scared to dive in, but proper methods of troubleshooting would be helpful. They aren't that complicated. The main cause for my questions is that no 2 people have the same opinion and methods of fixing, upgrading, and modifying.

I'll keep searching too, for pics and methods.
 
If you've got the FSM, it will cover the testing of your individual components of the ignition system. @Coolerman has been a great resource for me, if I need wire diagrams to print. Check out his website.
As others have said; I would begin by testing for proper voltage at various points.
 
Been doing a bit more reading....

regardless of what I find the problem to be, I want to upgrade the ignition.

Options:

1. Trollhole electronic distributor and 12 coil, remove factory ignitor and resistor
2. 60 distributor and 12V coil (what can I remove from the system or replace/upgrade with the 60 mod?)
3. Pertronix sells something to get rid of the points?
4. Can I just replace my coil and ignitor with a 12V coil, from MSD or similar? Upgrade the distributor with these mods?
5. I'd like to buy a Trollhole product, but he is hell to get in touch with after the fact, so I'd like to buy something that I can source parts for. Any other options for an electronic distributor?

Thanks
 
#2 is a nice upgrade and remains all Toyota. You'll need the coil, igniter, and the harness from the igniter to the dizzy from a '79 or later 2F. You'll also need the dished side cover (pushrod gallery cover for the engine from an FJ60.
 
I used the Trollhole distributor, the coil I had and ran it through the ballast resistor. Couple thousand miles later still a happy camper, could not have been simpler. But I would have someone help you get the distributor in correctly or you will fight it, then end up with it not seated properly and run it out of oil pressure and be not so happy camper. Good luck with whichever way you go. Pretty soon guys will have to go down to the senior center to find someone that knows what points are.
 
If your stock ignition works, it is a great one. No upgrade needed. Some argue that electronic ignitions are lower maintenance, but if they fail, you are stuck. The semi transistorized ignitions from '75 to 77 are reliable and low maintenence and if for some reason the ignitor failed, the points alone will get you home. Keep a spare set of points and a condensor in the glove box.
Changing ignitions isn't going to give you any better performance or fuel economy, so save your money for something that is useful.
 
Try to get your existing setup working like Pin_Head suggested. check to see if your getting voltage to coil during cranking, have you opened your dizzy up and looked into the cap? I would suggest trollhole if your existing unit is done.

You say you have fuel, have you tried pouring a bit of fuel down the carb to see if it fires?
 
If there's power going to the distributor, I would start by figuring out how points work and see if yours are working.
It's simple and worth knowing no matter what you end up doing.


Take the distributor cap off.
Pull up on the rotor and pull that off.
There may be a dust shield, if so pull that off too.
You will notice that the center shaft is not round but is a cam with 6 raised points around its periphery.
Mounted to the bottom of the distributor you will find the points with a wire going to them.
One side of the points is fixed while the other side is connected to a spring and a little bar that rides on the cam.
Take a little screwdriver and push the moving side of the points away from the cam to see how they open and close.
When the little bar is at a low point on the cam, the points close. When the little bar is on a high point, they open.
Have someone tap the ignition key a few times until the little bar sits on a high point.
Are the points open? They should be open the thickness of the cardboard on a book of matches.
(I know that no one smokes anymore, and the ones who do use lighters but you get the idea. A thin piece of cardboard.)
If the points open and close then the problem is likely elsewhere.
If they don't open, you loosen the points hold-down screw slightly and push the points so the bar goes closer to the cam to set the opening.
Tighten the screw. Tap the ignition until the bar is at a low point. The points should be closed.
Easy.
 
I wouldn't do another thing until you do exactly as edwjmcgrath suggest in his excellent post.

At this point we are all guessing...his instructions are where you need to look 1st...if that's not the issue, then we can point you in the right direction and go from there.

Good luck, John
 
Get some magnifying lenses - and visually inspect your points also. Make sure both contacts look good. Compare to a spare set that housekeeping the glovebox.

Check YOUR TIMING ! Put the truck on 3rd or 4th gear, and gently rock it until you can see the timing bullet in the inspection window above the starter.

With the dizzy cover off, make sure that the rotor is pointed at the 4th spark plug from the front of the engine. My dizzy was loose - OK I didn't tighten down fully - and timing shifted to the point it was so off I could barely drive over a curb. Your could be off even further.

Lastly, consult you local LC club and see if someone is close enough to lend a hand.... Or keep posting here.
 
Thanks for the help. Fantastic help with the points troubleshooting. I think I can follow that.

Had a bit of time today to investigate, but still isn't running:

I checked for fuel....it's getting fuel to the carb and the bowl is half full.....won't fire on starting fluid either.

Cranked it over a bit and pulled a spark plug, plug had gas on it, so we are good to go there. Put fresh NGK plugs in to be sure. NO change. Wanted to put a new cap and rotor on, but no one has it on stock. That may be my problem, but we will know when they come in the mail.

Did notice an odd thing, the spark plugs were in bad shape, and were corroded and burnt (unevenly) worse than I've ever come across. As I thought about it, I did remember it having a slight miss at idle for the past month, but ran fine otherwise and idled ok.





What would cause such a build up of crud and uneven corrosion and burning?

Also, I have 12 V at coil and at spark plug wires (with key on, can't see what's happening while cranking, not enough hands)

Tested here at this terminal (12V)

and across the terminals here (12V):


Tried to get an Ohm reading across the terminals, but the values were all over the place (key off)

So, I'm stumped. Cranks hard and fast. It ran perfect (well as good as it ever had) Up until the morning it wouldn't crank. Timing should be ok. Maybe its the points, I'll have to investigate further. Is a points problem something that could happen instantly without warning, or would that be something that gets worse with time, intermittently?

Thanks again for the help.
 
I can't tell for certain if you've checked if your points are opening.

If your points are not opening...it will never start...never.

It takes 5 minuets to set them.

John

Edit: sorry, yes the points not allowing it to start can happen instantly. Usually they deteriorate , but it can be instant.
 
If and when you verify the points are opening ... When the points are closed use a nail file in between the point surfaces ... People always just go for replacing the points... But... They can be cleaned very easy and reused without ever tearing into things

If you clean the points and it tries to fire ... Most likely that is the problem... If it still doesn't fire it could be other issue

Did you see if you had spark at the plugs yet?
 
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