2f hp (1 Viewer)

[Mace]

I am a big fan of a good quality header on a 2F. the stock cam dies just over 3k, so an aftermarket cam is a good thing as well

shaved head, header, desmog and cam will really waken up a cruiser motor.

 

[CruisinFJ60]

Any progress on the 2FE? I am loving mine, but my broke ass can't afford to run much fuel through it. (working on fixing my ass in the near future though)

Not recently, many things in my life had to take a break this last year and I have been doing what I could with stuff I had or was given. After the holidays I will be getting back on it pretty heavily as I am trying to get into another house and would like to be able to drive and wheel the white 60 comfortably again.

but to go back on topic I think if you have the funds for some sort of charger and it something you want to try because it is different then do it.

 

[SuperHatch]

How do you determine the volume needed and how much extra power will it bring?

Since no one else answered I'd try to shed some light... This applies to Positive Displacement (PD) blowers (Eaton, Lysholm, Kenne Bell, Etc.) This is a gross oversimplification, but it should help get some understanding and get you in the ballpark.

PD Blowers are generally rated in Liters or Cubic Inches. Eaton M90, M112 (90ci, 112ci respectively). Kenne Bell rates their blowers in liters.

Essentially that is the theoretical displacement of air per revolution of the blower with no blowby. If you have a 2.0L blower and a 4.0L motor, the ratio of pulley required to achieve 14.7psi of boost is 4:1, meaning the blower must spin four times as fast as the crankshaft. Essentially the blower is forcing out twice as much air as the engine can naturally flow, resulting in 2 times atmospheric pressure in the intake manifold.



Of course there are tradeoffs to be made, and we don't love in a perfect world.

- Blowers have leakage past the screws, which results in less than 100% Volumetric Efficiency, just as engines do. VE is very low at low blower speeds.
- Heat is generated at high blower speeds. Heat is the enemy with PD blowers.

You need to find the balance... larger blowers will require to be turned at lower RPMs to achieve the same boost as a smaller blower on the same engine. This in turn will reduce heat, but it will also reduce available boost levels at low RPMs. This is why strapping larger blowers on mustangs results in more power at even the same boost level. Less heat is a more dense air charge that will result in more power. However all of these cars loose some response in the off-idle area compared to stock.




Like I said, gross oversimplification... but it should help you in deciding on a size of a blower to use.

 

[waiting for time]

Since no one else answered I'd try to shed some light... This applies to Positive Displacement (PD) blowers (Eaton, Lysholm, Kenne Bell, Etc.) This is a gross oversimplification, but it should help get some understanding and get you in the ballpark.

PD Blowers are generally rated in Liters or Cubic Inches. Eaton M90, M112 (90ci, 112ci respectively). Kenne Bell rates their blowers in liters.

Essentially that is the theoretical displacement of air per revolution of the blower with no blowby. If you have a 2.0L blower and a 4.0L motor, the ratio of pulley required to achieve 14.7psi of boost is 4:1, meaning the blower must spin four times as fast as the crankshaft. Essentially the blower is forcing out twice as much air as the engine can naturally flow, resulting in 2 times atmospheric pressure in the intake manifold.



Of course there are tradeoffs to be made, and we don't love in a perfect world.

- Blowers have leakage past the screws, which results in less than 100% Volumetric Efficiency, just as engines do. VE is very low at low blower speeds.
- Heat is generated at high blower speeds. Heat is the enemy with PD blowers.

You need to find the balance... larger blowers will require to be turned at lower RPMs to achieve the same boost as a smaller blower on the same engine. This in turn will reduce heat, but it will also reduce available boost levels at low RPMs. This is why strapping larger blowers on mustangs results in more power at even the same boost level. Less heat is a more dense air charge that will result in more power. However all of these cars loose some response in the off-idle area compared to stock.




Like I said, gross oversimplification... but it should help you in deciding on a size of a blower to use.

Thanks Superhatch, this gives som more info and makes the picture more complete.
As I understand it correctly to get a responsive engine at low revs youre better off with a smaller blower and either a liquide cooled or a forced air intercooler.
Am I correct that a PD blower is more effective on low rpm's than a centifugal blower which works better over medium to higher rpm's? (more blowby).

 

[SuperHatch]

Thanks Superhatch, this gives som more info and makes the picture more complete.
As I understand it correctly to get a responsive engine at low revs youre better off with a smaller blower and either a liquide cooled or a forced air intercooler.
Am I correct that a PD blower is more effective on low rpm's than a centifugal blower which works better over medium to higher rpm's? (more blowby).

Yes and no, when I say that large blowers have more blowby, the difference in off idle response might be a couple hundred RPM. However, if what I've read in this thread about the 2F is true, I'd set it up for off idle boost and not rev past 5k.

My personal opinion... Positive displacement on motors that make low end power, centrifugal blowers on motors that like to rev.

Centrifugal blowers can be made to work at low RPMs as well, you will just need a different pulley setup to get the blower spinning sooner. The issue is that you put it out of it's efficiency range faster. So if you want a centri blower to make boost at 1500RPM, it might be out of steam at 4k or sooner because of how much "gearing up" required to get it spinning so fast as such a low engine RPM. high revving motors require less pulley ratio to achieve the same blower RPM at higher engine RPMs, so it spreads out the usable boost rpm range.

I appologize, I'm really not great at explaining things that make perfect sense in my head.

 

[Mace]

However, if what I've read in this thread about the 2F is true, I'd set it up for off idle boost and not rev past 5k.

Very true

 

[SuperHatch]

My personal opinion... Positive displacement on motors that make low end power, centrifugal blowers on motors that like to rev.

I should add that my opinion stems from using boost to enhance what natural characteristics a motor already has. That's one reason I ike centri blowers on Honda motors, they don't make any torque anyway, so why put a PD blower on one? Some would argue the PD blower adds the torque that Hondas are naturally missing. I'd say, yes, you added some low end grunt, but you could have added even more top end power... but I have just taken this thread OT so I'll stop now...

 

[waiting for time]

I should add that my opinion stems from using boost to enhance what natural characteristics a motor already has. That's one reason I ike centri blowers on Honda motors, they don't make any torque anyway, so why put a PD blower on one? Some would argue the PD blower adds the torque that Hondas are naturally missing. I'd say, yes, you added some low end grunt, but you could have added even more top end power... but I have just taken this thread OT so I'll stop now...

I agree, you should enhance the caristeristics of an engine don't try to change it for it will give reliabillity problems. A 2F is not build for high revs so charge it at high revs will put a lot of stress on the running gear.

 

[fj4play]

x2 i agree also,the only complaint i have about the 2f is on the high way trying to keep up with traffic on long or steep grades, off road i love the 2f, 1 have 84 fj60 with 33" tires and 4,11 gears and a 4 speed trans, on flat ground at 65 mph the rpms are at 2900 could use a fifth gear but that still wont help on the grades, i have 38/38 carb i am installing and am planning on a header and a dist re-curve hoping that will make me happy, tired of getting passed by old vw vans on the grades

 

[mookie]

I am a big fan of a good quality header on a 2F. the stock cam dies just over 3k, so an aftermarket cam is a good thing as well

shaved head, header, desmog and cam will really waken up a cruiser motor.

i'd really value your opinion or preferance on header and cam.....and what kind of compression # should i shoot for and how much would i want to shave the head?

everything i've done to the 2F in my FJ60 (desmog, dual air intakes, electric fan) has made a small but noticable difference....i'm hoping the header and cam will be the icing on the cake so to speak

 

[RockDoc]

These might help some with the cam:
good camshaft thread
another good camshaft thread

Search for Mace's "Best 2F" thread in the 40 section for some more good info on the engines in general (if it hasn't already been brought up in this thread)

 

[CruisinFJ60]

I am a big fan of a good quality header on a 2F. the stock cam dies just over 3k, so an aftermarket cam is a good thing as well

shaved head, header, desmog and cam will really waken up a cruiser motor.

I guess the header could have made a larger difference than I originally thought, I dont know for sure as it was on the truggy before I got it and didnt drive it before the header. The engine is also full desmogged and runs 100% pane. I did drive it before the pane hen Joel still had it and it ran really well then but even better now on the pane.

I thought my white 60 was pretty peppy with a good carb and the 35's and 4.56's. the truggy is peppier but also weighs a LOT LESS with no top or heavy glass, i can feel a major weight difference when I have them on my trailer behind the truck.



Jason is a smart guy and I know he has run before and after on the same truck so has a better comparison than I do, so I would certainly trust his thoughts on that over mine. Guess I took advantage of the added power of the header.

 

[Hulsty]

Wondering realistically how many hp you could get out of a 2f . Turboed , or otherwise . Also wondering how many rpm you can get out of one w/ different cam , valve springs etc . Trying to figure out if it would be possible to make 200 hp and still have some sort of reliability .

DYNO'd at 8PSI 181kw/244hp & 560Nm/413ftlb @ the RW 8th Dec 08
EST @ FLY 283KW/379HP

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/134529-2f-3f-e-2f-eti-into-my-fj40.html

 

[CruisinFJ60]

what type of dyno, elevation and outside temps? most importantly the dyno.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

DYNO'd at 8PSI 181kw/244hp & 560Nm/413ftlb @ the RW 8th Dec 08
EST @ FLY 283KW/379HP

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/134529-2f-3f-e-2f-eti-into-my-fj40.html

Pre and post MAP across the intercooler.

Pre and post temps across the intercooler.

Oh yes in the first graph Blue lines are Marin's Mav 4.2Turbo Diesel

 

[GarageRat]

What RPM range would that equate to with your gearing? I prefer to think in engine speed as opposed to road speed and the operator didn't bother entering the total gearing for that pull to give an equivalent engine speed.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

what rpm range would that equate to with your gearing? I prefer to think in engine speed as opposed to road speed and the operator didn't bother entering the total gearing for that pull to give an equivalent engine speed.

rev limiter set to 5500rpm