Did one of them come OEM on a car or only aftermarket?
2f hp (6 Viewers)
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Did one of them come OEM on a car or only aftermarket?
one thing to factor into this conversation is that the sbc is something like 200-250 pounds lighter than the 2F with more hp and pretty close torque #'s
The torque numbers aren't really even that close. a stock tbi has 310lbs of torque where a healthy 2f has 200-210lbs. which is almost 50% more torque. The difference is 2f peak is around 1800rpms where the tbi is around 2800rpms. If your running a manual the 2f feels nice but if your running an automatic there is no comparison In my opinion from running both.
you can drag the RPM down a lot lower on a 2F (or really any I6 engine) than you can a SBC or another comparable V8 engine. Nice if crawling you can just let it lug down and go.
and truly we shouldn't even be talking about freaking tbi 350's anymore.....you can get a good used 5.3 or 6.0 for around 1k which even stock blow the doors on a 2F or old school sbc and has almost unlimited build potential
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That's kinda what I'm talkin' about . I'd like to see a sb chev make useable power from 500 to 5000 rpm . I really do like the characteristics of an inline 6 better than a v8 .
It would be neat to do. Mount some forced induction on a 2F, keep the RPM's low and see what it does. You could get close with a SBC, 3.8 stroke crank, small heads etc. but the point would be supercharging a 2F. Worst case if the 2F grenades put the huffer on a SBC and start breaking stuff.
Nice if crawling with a manual. Makes no difference with an auto.
My poncho will lug down to 650-700 no problem just like my buddy's 2F
. The 40 pound steel flywheel helps it at the low end.Main difference is it will completely scream to 6000 if I let it
Im not saying I wouldnt love a V8 but with low gearing and a manual transmission when on the rocks just crawling the 2F (or again pretty much any I6) is a great engine to have.
2F does not = auto. it was never a combination nor should it really be IMOP. But a 3FE or 1zfe (or whatever the 4.5 I6 in the 80 is) would be a great engine for something not to heavy. the shorter stroke of the 3FE would allow it to rev a little higher a little safer for longer periods of time if needed for a long tall climb or mud as would the 4.5 (even tho the stroke isnt as short).
But the original question was about a 2F so that kinda says to me the vehicle in question has a manual transmission and a little more juice would make an all around nice engine. would the cost be worth polishing a turd? probably not but it could be a great engine with a centrifical super charger bolted on under the hood.
My poncho will lug down to 650-700 no problem just like my buddy's 2F
Main difference is it will completely scream to 6000 if I let it
haha! My junk idles nice and smooth at 350-400 RPM when it hasnt been started for a while and will sit there for a few minutes till it warms up enough to touch the gas, but 750 is its sweet spot when warm. and I have seen it idle as low as 200 nice and smooth for a couple of minutes before as well. When wheeling I have drug it down to 400-450 and it still had enough bottom end to continue to power up at those RPM.
I've never had to let any of mine go under 500 regardless of F, 2F, or any kind of V8. Personally I've always worked the gearing out to where you just don't have to lug that low, the difference between 1 mph and 1.5 mph aren't enough for me to worry about. I'm not dissing the yoda I6s, I've had an F and wheel with a 2F in 40s but at the same time I think when you start talking about bolting on a centrifugal supercharger you've reached a point where you're polishing a turd. It's a 1930's design that is basically a tractor motor with only 4 mains meant for low engine speeds. A junkyard turbo would be the farthest I'd go with one to help boost compression and gain a little power before switching to another motor such as a 1FZ, 2JZ, 7MGTE, or Atlas 4.2 (the best option in my opinion) if an I6 was desired.
For a low RPM V8 I'd go Caddy or BOP since they're huge torquey luxury barge motors that are way different from small block chebbys. The small block was meant to be a high rpm motor from the start, look at the 283 with its 3.00" stroke and how it'd do 6500 no problem from the factory. The 350 was made to bring the rpm of peak power down to a range more people felt comfortable cruising with. The Caddy and BOP motors are long stroke, my 400 is a 3.750" stroke and my 462 (essentially a bored 455) is a 4.120" stroke (a 2F has a stroke of 4.01" to put in perspective), motors meant to have gobs of torque. A Cadillac 500 has a monster 4.304 in (109 mm) stroke. A 496 chevy (stroked 454) has a stroke of 4.25" to give a huge stroke normal deck chevy perspective. Frankly in my opinion these motors give you the best of both worlds. I would rather have a Pontiac due to its cooling and oiling designs being better than a BBC, I own both and the Pontiacs have never had cooling issues.
Back when my poncho was a lowly stock WS6 motor from my trans am it'd do 500-550 rock steady in gear and just lug along no complaints with good vacuum and oil pressure with 3.42 cogs in back. Now that it's been rebuilt with a hotter cam, worked over Ram Air III heads, Performer intake, AFB, etc etc and pushes 450+ hp and more than enough torque, 550+ ft. lb with a relatively flat torque curve, it'll still idle at 650-700 in gear no problem but probably wouldn't be as happy at 500 rpm. Yet at the same time I can let it wind up and do 5500-6000 rpm up shifts no problem and lose the back end in any gear. When I pulled it out of my TA for my '63 everyone that knew me said I was building an insane (not in the good way) daily driver. I haven't had a chance to flog it yet in the cruiser but since I don't plan on climbing a sheer vertical face with it so much as scaring the hell out of anyone willing to ride in it I'm sure it'll perform similar.
The F motors lug because they have a long stroke and a lot of rotational inertia. If you're building a V8, not just pulling one out of a vehicle with a different designed use, you can do that no problem with the right parts selection. Drag racers with visually stock appearing requirements have done it for years to help launch with the high first gear many period transmissions have.
Damn, should've thrown some pictures in with this novel to break it up some. :whoops:
all true to the best of my knowledge
I didnt say spending money on a 2F was worth it, but if you got it and you wanted to do it why not as i think it would be a decent way to go.
obviously better options are available but that wasnt the original topic of the thread.
I didnt say spending money on a 2F was worth it, but if you got it and you wanted to do it why not as i think it would be a decent way to go.
obviously better options are available but that wasnt the original topic of the thread.
I meant the discussion in general really, nothing against you. Call it a need to think cars after a week with family.
Personally I feel if you're keeping the 2F the best way to go about it is balance it to within an inch of its life (IIRC they weren't balanced well from the factory?), go with a new cam grind, and use a turbo. The 2F only has a low to mid 8:1 compression ratio if memory serves and with the turbo you could run low boost but still run low to mid grade pump gas. I'd throw a compression tester on and see what your actual pressure is to help figure out what you could run for boost. A centrifrugal doesn't come on anything stock besides early T-Birds and the price of an old Paxton or McCullough is insane. Ideally you'd want to run two smaller carbs, with a single inlet, two outlet airbox from the turbo, spaced out so as to alleviate the lean conditions 1 and 6 can see without getting too fat with cylinders 2-5. Or you could add bungs by the intake ports and run multi point fuel injection with a Big Stuff 3 MegaSquirt ECU if you wanted to go all out on fuel delivery. A guy in the 40 section just posted pics of an old Offy manifold that fits the bill carb wise. I'm not 100% sure of all the parts interchangability but there are some aftermarket bits for the Chev 6's out there. It might be easier to just start with a late Chevy 292 I6 as they have some support from Clifford 6=8, IIRC 7 mains, and a cult following.
With the money and work invested though you'd get better gains with a different motor.
Personally I feel if you're keeping the 2F the best way to go about it is balance it to within an inch of its life (IIRC they weren't balanced well from the factory?), go with a new cam grind, and use a turbo. The 2F only has a low to mid 8:1 compression ratio if memory serves and with the turbo you could run low boost but still run low to mid grade pump gas. I'd throw a compression tester on and see what your actual pressure is to help figure out what you could run for boost. A centrifrugal doesn't come on anything stock besides early T-Birds and the price of an old Paxton or McCullough is insane. Ideally you'd want to run two smaller carbs, with a single inlet, two outlet airbox from the turbo, spaced out so as to alleviate the lean conditions 1 and 6 can see without getting too fat with cylinders 2-5. Or you could add bungs by the intake ports and run multi point fuel injection with a Big Stuff 3 MegaSquirt ECU if you wanted to go all out on fuel delivery. A guy in the 40 section just posted pics of an old Offy manifold that fits the bill carb wise. I'm not 100% sure of all the parts interchangability but there are some aftermarket bits for the Chev 6's out there. It might be easier to just start with a late Chevy 292 I6 as they have some support from Clifford 6=8, IIRC 7 mains, and a cult following.
With the money and work invested though you'd get better gains with a different motor.
It is correct to say there are better and less expensive ways to upgrade a 40, but you must realize that in Europe the V8 is not as common and therefore more expensive and more diffucult to make it fit, bell housing and so on. It is also not so easy to change from I6 to V8 in terms of making it road legal. The better option would be the later I6 engines but they are not that easy to find and pricey. Making the supercharger a better option here than in the states. It would be wise to put on an EFI system. A Mercedes compressor could do the job, a Compressor from a 230 with a smaller pulley will have the capacity for a mild charge. I haven't investigated prices yet so not shure what option is better (less expensive) but both involve a lot of work.
The later engine will however be more fuell efficient and at € 1,52 per liter ....................
The later engine will however be more fuell efficient and at € 1,52 per liter ....................
i hope this isn't too far off topic here.....but how much performace could you gain out of a high mileage but otherwise good running stock 2F if you threw a header and a mild cam on one? would it be worth it?
I'm not a fan of headers on much of anything. Frequent leaks. There is less reason to do one on a 2F as the power down low doesn't benefit from the gasses being moved out quickly. Also the way the intake/ exhaust bolt on a header can cause sealing leaks if not mated just right.
my truggy has a header but a stock cam still. I think the larger advantage would be in the cam, I think the header likely helps to some extent but probably nothing you would really feel if you were already desmogged.
okay, forget the header part......what about a mild cam? worth the time and money for what it gives you?
Havent personally run one so no direct performance reviews but those that have done it say it is worth it. I would really like to do it on my 2FE to let it breath better. It is a pretty simple swap tho.
Any progress on the 2FE? I am loving mine, but my broke ass can't afford to run much fuel through it. (working on fixing my ass in the near future though)