2F GM TBI with MegaSquirt ECU Project

[norsk]

Good Luck! Sounds like you're on the right track by putting a lot of thought into it up front. I megasquirted a 1970 BMW 2002 a couple years ago and it runs terrific! More power and much better gas mileage.

I don't think you need 4 bar map sensors though, that's a bit overkill, those are normally used for turbo or supercharged applications. But in any case, having two map sensors is a great idea since you live in high altitude, that way the system will compensate on the fly, not just when you power up the ECU.

You might consider installing a Ford EDIS ignition. It's pretty much plug and play after you figure out how to mount a toothed wheel on your crank pulley, then you can optimize your spark advance as well as your fueling.

Tuning should be pretty easy on a 2F...

thanks

The directions indicated the need for the dual MAP if in mountainous area, as I definitely am in the "hills", and I have traveled from 2,000 feet (southern Utah) to 10,000 feet (Henry Mountains area) in a single day run. I have the need.

As for the ignition I want to do that, but definitely do not understand (yet) the 36 point wheel and pickup sensor. I like to understand the theory of operation as I do things. If I don't understand, it becomes harder for me to the small things.

Then again, I just might be making bigger than it really is, since I don't fully understand it and how to put a differ dizzy in the rig etc. I just need to review and review some more other's projects

 

[JohnCapoccia]

thanks

The directions indicated the need for the dual MAP if in mountainous area, but I definitely am in, and I have traveled from 2,000 feet (southern Utah) to 10,000 feet (Henry Mountains area) in a single day run.

Yes, it is advisable to run dual MAP because of the frequent change in elevation. No doubt about that. But you don't need 4 bar map sensors - 4 bar is four times atmospheric pressure. You're operating pretty much below one bar almost all the time. You'll get slightly above one bar if you're at sea level and there's a high pressure ridge moving across the area.

 

[JohnCapoccia]

As for the ignition I want to do that, but definitely do not understand (yet) the 36 point wheel and pickup sensor. I like to understand the theory of operation as I do things. If I don't understand, it becomes harder for me to the small things.

Then again, I just might be making bigger than it really is, since I don't fully understand it and how to put a differ dizzy in the rig etc. I just need to review and review some more other's projects

No, you're not making it a bigger deal that it is. As all things megasquirt, it takes time to read and absorb before you understand it. I'm sure you've started to tackle the megamanual, but for your convenience here's the EDIS section

EDIS Ignition Control

Basically you don't need a dizzy with EDIS. You'll need to plug off the dizzy opening. A fellow named Tom from 02Again.com makes the plugs for BMW engines, he may be willing to make a one-off for you. Otherwise it's a pretty simple thing to turn one on a lathe if you know someone that can do it. The hard part is mounting the toothed wheel to the pulley. I'm sure there's one out there that you can weld on, but you need to ensure that it's mounted true and concentric with the pulley.

Go for the EFI first. You can always come back to the ignition later. The big bang for the buck is with the fueling, not the spark.

 

[norsk]

Yes, it is advisable to run dual MAP because of the frequent change in elevation. No doubt about that. But you don't need 4 bar map sensors - 4 bar is four times atmospheric pressure. You're operating pretty much below one bar almost all the time. You'll get slightly above one bar if you're at sea level and there's a high pressure ridge moving across the area.

True. The standard MAP sensor is the MPX4350 that solders into the ECU PCB MPX4250 2.5 Bar MAP Sensor DIYAutoTune.com The replacement 4 bar sensor solders in place of the 4350 and has 2 sensors for the barometric measurement. It just happens to be a 4 bar version as well, for boost operation. Should work regardless of boost. MapDaddy 4 Bar MAP Sensor with Barometric Correction DIYAutoTune.com

Didn't see another option to get the barometric feature (at least from this vendor). Then again, maybe I boost in the future............

 

[JohnCapoccia]

True. The standard MAP sensor is the MPX4350 that solders into the ECU PCB MPX4250 2.5 Bar MAP Sensor DIYAutoTune.com The replacement 4 bar sensor solders in place of the 4350 and has 2 sensors for the barometric measurement. It just happens to be a 4 bar version as well, for boost operation. Should work regardless of boost. MapDaddy 4 Bar MAP Sensor with Barometric Correction DIYAutoTune.com

Didn't see another option to get the barometric feature (at least from this vendor). Then again, maybe I boost in the future............

Cool. At the time I did mine, I don't remember the MapDaddy. That's great that it's 2 for 1. I was considering adding a another standard sensor, but didn't want to mess with the soldering. It's been a while now, and has been running well for a long time, so I'm a little behind with the state of the art.

Again, good luck, and please post your progress as you go!

 

[norsk]

1) Last night performed the test suite on the JimStim board and it passed. Not to say it is perfect, but it passed the tests in the assembly instructions.

Tonight, will start some assembly on the MS-II board itself. The JimStim is used as a test fixture to validate the assembling of the MS-II, subsystem by subsystem

2) Just got back from the muffler shop where they welded on the O2 bung to the exhaust. $62 - good price considering I don't know how to weld, have no such tools, etc. They did have this neat drill that drilled the hole w/o the need for a torch. Manager said its a great drip for such oddball jobs

All the other labor on this projectI can do myself, just not welding. Sad thing, since my dad was a metal guy and welded all the time at work. That might be why he didn't have a rig at home and didn't teach me growing up. Must of tired of it or something. oh well.

Pic below of ex pipe, bung on the downstream header flange that come with the header and an old O2 sensor the shop had, and used it to plug the hole. I can't put my new one in until I power it up and calibrate it. Their instructions WARN not to install the O2 sensor unless it is powered up first. (Also got an estimate to put in 2.25 inch pipe and a better muffler from that flange and out the back. $333 - mm another todo item. There was no cat on this rig when I bought it)

Looking down the header on the drivers side. Had some good sunlight backdropping it

 

[ntsqd]

That's the filter alright. Fastened it to the frame in one of the many pre-threaded holes back near the tank. BTW, I have run mine down to nothing but fumes and it never skipped a beat. Evidently the stock tank is pretty well baffled.

To add the -6 JIC fittings to my fuel pick-up I had to drop the tank and remove the pick-up assembly. It literally has to be 'un-screwed' out of the tank to clear the baffles and the 'screwed' back in. The pick-up's end sits in a little rectangularly shaped tray that appears to be spot welded to the bottom of the tank. Note how the return line is positioned so that it dumps back into the tray.

 

[norsk]

Got home tonight and found that the air filter assembly had arrived. It is for a TBI chev truck and I think there will be room under the hood. $15 plus $25 shipping.

 

[ntsqd]

Nice looking part. Were it Me I'd do what I'm currently working on doing - use an FJ62 air filter assembly and duct to it. I have a couple of the single bulged silicon 'turbo' connector hoses that I'm going to use to allow for more flex if needed.

 

[norsk]

ok, I have started on assembling the actual MS-II board. There are 80 steps in the instructions and I got through 23 of them, which comprise the power circuit for the board. I need to test it according to the instructions to verify all is well.

So that completes 1 of 5 sections. The next section will be the communications system

 

[Tinker]

Blatant hijack to Doug & Thom -
I've been eyeballing a Haltech Platinum Sport 1000 for a 4cyl air-cooled atmospheric application & wondered what you two thought of it vs the MS. My parents got me a soldering iron for my 5th birthday (so I'd leave my Dad's alone), but unlike Doug, I had to have my 1st Heathkit re-soldered because of cold solder joints (can only now admit that after many decades).

 

[ntsqd]

[hijack]Haltech was the first real non-OEM EFI ECU worth using on a serious race car. I've no idea if they've kept up with technology or not. I do not get the impression that they are the major player that they once were, but beyond that I really don't know much about them.

I don't know what the current sport/toy/play offerings look like. SOP I'd say if not an MS then have a look at Simple Digital Systems though there may be something better that I'm unaware of.

If this is to be a serious motorsports effort then I'd be looking at Motec.[/hijack]

 

[norsk]

No problem with such hijacks. I believe we need comparisons in order to value what we have (or what we should have - lol)

doug t

 

[norsk]

Finally, got some "fair" weather yesterday, so I installed the LC-1 O2 sensor and gauge.

The biggest problem I find, is actually finding a 12v ignition power source. I think I saw post on adding a second ignition relay when installing a 2nd alternator. I need to find that and research it. It would be nice to have a second ignition line to tap into and not worry about overloading the primary. The second issue is finding a head/parking light line to for the gauges.

Anyway, attached is a pic of the LC-1 installed in the exhaust bung and cable coming up towards the brake booster. The second pic is of the gauges on the A pillar. At the bottom is the mechanical water temperature, the second up is the vacuum (the idea for these I got from IH8MUD thread) and then another two gauge set, with the lower one being the AFR gauge and an empty slot (mmmm, what shall I put in that one??)

The AFR is showing 14.0:1, this is with choke on and the vehicle is cold, abt 38 degree F

doug t

 

[scott84]

Hey Norsk I need an update!

 

[Moby]

You'll like the LC-1. I've got an LC-1 as well. I love the modularity - I feed mine directly into my in car PC/touchscreen via a serial cable instead of to a guage. I previously had an LM-1 and the LC-1 seems much faster as well (better resolution).

Sorry if I missed this somewhere in the thread but where did you get the pillar gauge pod?

 

[norsk]

Hey Norsk I need an update!

well I just gave the gauge activity post above, that was last saturday. Hope to do more assembly tomorrow. I will have sun light (which really helps) on to the work table. But doing 10 hour work days, so busy and tired.

On my list for tomorrow in the morning, so I will be awake

doug

 

[norsk]

You'll like the LC-1. I've got an LC-1 as well. I love the modularity - I feed mine directly into my in car PC/touchscreen via a serial cable instead of to a guage. I previously had an LM-1 and the LC-1 seems much faster as well (better resolution).

Sorry if I missed this somewhere in the thread but where did you get the pillar gauge pod?

It is very interesting to watch it while driving. It moves very fast, and weird that at steady driving it will move from lean to rich, to 14.x:1 and repeat, but most of the time on it stays on 14.x:1 area.

As an engineer I am more interested in measurements, with one motto of: If you can measure it, you can improve it.

That principle works for cars/trucks too.

Yet, the Generally Dump Public likes idiot lights best instead of gauages. (Who is the idiot?)


My one question is how to wire both the gauge AND the MS. I assume to take the wide band wire (brown) and connect it both to the gauge and the MS relay board so both can measure the voltage.

As for the gauge pod, I got it from a IH8MUD thread and ordered my first one last year. for $29+, this year it is $35.65 OUCH

Amazon.com: Auto Meter 20410 GaugeWorks Black Dual Pod: Automotive

But I messed up. I already had a 2 gauge pod and then just ordered a 2nd pod to place on top of the first. The pillar will take 4 gauges so that is what you see in the picture. BUT the sunshade cannot pull over the driver's window. It hits the pod frame and stops the shade. I should have just gotten a 3 gauge pod. I think I will cut the lower part of the upper gauge pod out and move the LC-1 gauge to the upper one and just make a 3 gauge pod.

Experience. Just wish I could use other's experiences first.

doug t

 

[Moby]

It is very interesting to watch it while driving. It moves very fast, and weird that at steady driving it will move from lean to rich, to 14.x:1 and repeat, but most of the time on it stays on 14.x:1 area.

This is expected. The ECU is constantly adjusting injector pulse width to try to hit the ideal. It's feedback so it is always reacting/adapting to what it did last. This makes it pretty easy to tell when you go into open loop at high load - you'll get pretty constant readings.

 

[norsk]

This is expected. The ECU is constantly adjusting injector pulse width to try to hit the ideal. It's feedback so it is always reacting/adapting to what it did last. This makes it pretty easy to tell when you go into open loop at high load - you'll get pretty constant readings.

You got ahead of me. I am still on a carb (still building the MS-II board) and just installed the LC-1 now because it didn't have any dependencies. Also like to see carb numbers and later the ECU numbers

doug t