2F Fuel injection installation????????

[Rgill]

Pulled the trigger on fuel injection. Purchased the Affordable Fuel Injection that uses a GM TBI and electronic distributor. Timing will be computer controlled, another vacuum line bites the dust. Parts are in route and started the de-smog over the weekend. Wow that was about 40 pounds of junk!! I will box up all the parts in case they need to go back on.

 

[Rgill]

You might also consider running mega squirt as it’s designed around or can be adapted for a myriad of sensors and components and vast ability to tune. You could run a set of FJ62 exhaust manifolds and modify the stock 2F intake manifold to run fuel injectors and eliminate the carb with a block off plate…also giving you ample space for a MAP sensor. Even better than that would be to make a custom intake modeled on the or adapted from the 3FE intake with its long skinny runners that optimize low rpm air flow.

Sounds cool but I was wanting something more turn key. This kit comes with a computer already calibrated for the 2F engine running stock intake and exhaust. If I decide to modify the head, add a cam, etc. then the computer can be recalibrated to support that as well. The stock TBI will support up 300+ HP and the 2F will never see that.

 

[Seth S]

curios what made you go with the AFI over the Sniper?

Sounds cool but I was wanting something more turn key. This kit comes with a computer already calibrated for the 2F engine running stock intake and exhaust. If I decide to modify the head, add a cam, etc. then the computer can be recalibrated to support that as well. The stock TBI will support up 300+ HP and the 2F will never see that.

 

[Rgill]

curios what made you go with the AFI over the Sniper?

I wanted something that a local parts store would have in stock. I use my cruiser on roads less traveled and the GM based TBI was used on millions of vehicles so parts are easy to source. From what I understand the only non-stock item is the ECM has been re-programed for the 2F.

 

[StinkyPig]

I currently run a 1980 40 with the Sniper and I am installing a second one on my 78. It was good enough to buy another one.

 

[dbbowen]

I wanted something that a local parts store would have in stock. I use my cruiser on roads less traveled and the GM based TBI was used on millions of vehicles so parts are easy to source. From what I understand the only non-stock item is the ECM has been re-programed for the 2F.

Im wondering if you went with the AFI Kit with the ECM controlled Distributor, could you get the ECM onto HP Tuners? This alone would make it worth more than the holley sniper setup. Im assuming it uses a GM Computer right? Their website says the ECM is tunable. You can open up much much more with a tuner and HP tuners than something that is "self learning"

Edit, just called them, their optimum line doesnt use a gm ecm so no dice on flash tuning

 

[Rgill]

So my AFI kit just showed up , I hope to have this installed in a couple of weeks. Depends on when I get a bung installed for the O2 sensor. I did a de-smog last weekend and installed a cheap E-bay replacement carb. Have to say that the $70 carb runs really good. So yes sounds nuts but the engine ran so poorly I wanted a good running engine before the fuel injection install. Now if I have a problem I know it is with the fuel injection. Everything in the kit looks really nice. Harness is well labeled and uses all factory style GM connectors. Install includes a check engine light and the diagnostic port so if needed I can hook up a scanner and pull codes. Fuel pump is a in-line unit, the TBI does not require high pressure fuel lines. 30psi is the operating pressure. Going to drive the carb for another week and get my average gas mileage before the AFI is installed. I can see it has improved with the smog removed and new carb. The gas gauge moves slower...lol.

 

[Justin Roberts]

Did you ever do the install and figure out what to do with the vac lines? Howell instructions are pretty vague

 

[Lifelong40Fan]

@Rgill did you get the AFI installed? Updates? I bought a used AFI kit and hope to have it in a week or so. Thanks!

 

[Rgill]

Like always I got side tracked with other projects. The computer, O2 sensor, all the wiring has been installed. As far as vacuum lines go. I removed all the smog garbage and all the vacuum lines except for brake booster. Plugged all ports and installed a $70 ebay carb non-emission. The thinking was I wanted a baseline to compare the fuel injection vs carb but since with the smog and factory worn out carb my cruiser barely ran. Well very impressed with the $70 special. Cranked right up, adjusted idle, mixture and choke. Getting 13-14 mph. I currently only have the distributor advance and brake booster vacuum attached. Once I install the TBI unit I will re-install charcoal canister and PVC vacuum. The AFI system includes a electronic advance distributor so that vacuum will be deleted. Will post a vacuum diagram when done. Oh the factory fuel cutoff wire is a perfect source for the computer wire that requires a 12 volt on source. Just be certain to identify the positive and negative side if you have the two wire fuel cutoff harness.

 

[ChaserFJ60]

Efi won’t magically add hp. It will optimize drive ability and improve hot and cold starts. It’s easier to tune more precisely but it often doesn’t result in improved economy.

Agree 100%, I did a 2fe setup with the 3fe head. MPG is the same, It pulls slightly better but nothing amazing. Never had a failed cold start. Ever.

 

[cps432]

Agree 100%, I did a 2fe setup with the 3fe head. MPG is the same, It pulls slightly better but nothing amazing. Never had a failed cold start. Ever.

It solves a lot of problems, but presents a whole new set of challenges on it's own. EFI on a 2F is pretty much polishing a turd. And that's okay because it's a nice turd.

 

[WSOPgold2012]

Agree 100%, I did a 2fe setup with the 3fe head. MPG is the same, It pulls slightly better but nothing amazing. Never had a failed cold start. Ever.

+1 and ill add never stalls at a red light or stop sign either... pure magic!!

 

[Seth S]

It solves a lot of problems, but presents a whole new set of challenges on it's own. EFI on a 2F is pretty much polishing a turd. And that's okay because it's a nice turd.

EFI is nice because at least a computer can usually pull all the data out of the system....vs having to disassembly the carb to find that one piece of pigeon that got stuck in the idle jet

 

[JG2625]

did you ever get this finished? If so how did you do the timing?

 

[Rgill]

did you ever get this finished? If so how did you do the timing?

No, the summer got really busy but I just cleaned out my garage and will continue starting this week. From the instructions the timing is set to zero if using the computer controlled dizzy. I did buy the dizzy with my kit. The AFI web site has install instructions.

DISTRIBUTOR Your fuel injection system requires one of several different ways to trigger the ECM and control spark. If you are installing a complete EFI system it will include a distributor. If this is the case simply install your distributor and plug in the 4-pin connector to the distributor from the wiring harness. If you are using the small distributor cap system an external coil is required that is not included with your system. A high energy coil rated for electronic ignition needs to be used. A coil that was for an engine with points is not sufficient for a fuel injection system. There will be two more wires required to operate the coil. These two wires are provided and marked “coil – and 12 volts”. The wires will be pink and white; the white wire connects to the negative terminal of the coil and the pink wire attaches to 12 volts which can also be taken from the positive side of the coil. Your original engine had a “hot” or “12 volt” wire that was used for the distributor or coil. This wire should be used to power the coil for your fuel injection system. If you are using an MSD or other after market ignition system without an ECM controlled distributor you will only have control of the fuel for your engine; however your ignition module will provide the trigger to the ECM. Simply hook the tach output from the module to the wire labeled “tach input“ on the wiring harness. If this installation is using an electronic ignition system that is part of your vehicle already, a tach filter will be used. A wire marked “tach input“ will be part of your wiring harness and connects to the “-“ terminal of the ignition coil or the tach lead of your MSD or Jacobs ignition module as mentioned in the previous paragraph.

 

[JG2625]

No, the summer got really busy but I just cleaned out my garage and will continue starting this week. From the instructions the timing is set to zero if using the computer controlled dizzy. I did buy the dizzy with my kit. The AFI web site has install instructions.

DISTRIBUTOR Your fuel injection system requires one of several different ways to trigger the ECM and control spark. If you are installing a complete EFI system it will include a distributor. If this is the case simply install your distributor and plug in the 4-pin connector to the distributor from the wiring harness. If you are using the small distributor cap system an external coil is required that is not included with your system. A high energy coil rated for electronic ignition needs to be used. A coil that was for an engine with points is not sufficient for a fuel injection system. There will be two more wires required to operate the coil. These two wires are provided and marked “coil – and 12 volts”. The wires will be pink and white; the white wire connects to the negative terminal of the coil and the pink wire attaches to 12 volts which can also be taken from the positive side of the coil. Your original engine had a “hot” or “12 volt” wire that was used for the distributor or coil. This wire should be used to power the coil for your fuel injection system. If you are using an MSD or other after market ignition system without an ECM controlled distributor you will only have control of the fuel for your engine; however your ignition module will provide the trigger to the ECM. Simply hook the tach output from the module to the wire labeled “tach input“ on the wiring harness. If this installation is using an electronic ignition system that is part of your vehicle already, a tach filter will be used. A wire marked “tach input“ will be part of your wiring harness and connects to the “-“ terminal of the ignition coil or the tach lead of your MSD or Jacobs ignition module as mentioned in the previous paragraph.

Thanks I have one in a 78 that the PO installed and I am trying to work out a few bugs. I have a call into the manufacturer now.

 

[Rgill]

did you ever get this finished? If so how did you do the timing?

I have finally completed this install of the AFI with the electronic distributor. First off this was not difficult to install. For me the throttle linkage took the most amount of time and tinkering. I used a factory GM cable for a S-10 purchased a mount that bolted to my firewall and manufactured a bracket mounted to the intake manifold. Air cleaner is a GM S-10 with a 1.5 spacer on the TBI. I am very pleased with how well this runs. Starts up and idles very smooth cold or hot. No driving issues even when cold. I did have to experiment with timing. Base timing was instructed to be set at TDC. I had a flat spot pulling 3rd gear under heavy load. Set base timing to 2 BTDC and everything smoothed out. So far I have driven about 400 miles of in town and freeway without any issues. I am at sea level and am looking forward to see how it runs with some elevation. Total investment with kit and misc. parts is just about $1000.00 however the kit with distributor has gone up about $300.00. For me being able to source replacement parts from my local auto parts store was a factor in buying this kit. A ton of GM vehicles are still on the road with this system so parts are easy and inexpensive to source.

 

[Rgill]

I have finally completed this install of the AFI with the electronic distributor. First off this was not difficult to install. For me the throttle linkage took the most amount of time and tinkering. I used a factory GM cable for a S-10 purchased a mount that bolted to my firewall and manufactured a bracket mounted to the intake manifold. Air cleaner is a GM S-10 with a 1.5 spacer on the TBI. I am very pleased with how well this runs. Starts up and idles very smooth cold or hot. No driving issues even when cold. I did have to experiment with timing. Base timing was instructed to be set at TDC. I had a flat spot pulling 3rd gear under heavy load. Set base timing to 2 BTDC and everything smoothed out. So far I have driven about 400 miles of in town and freeway without any issues. I am at sea level and am looking forward to see how it runs with some elevation. Total investment with kit and misc. parts is just about $1000.00 however the kit with distributor has gone up about $300.00. For me being able to source replacement parts from my local auto parts store was a factor in buying this kit. A ton of GM vehicles are still on the road with this system so parts are easy and inexpensive to source.

My thoughts on this system now that I have some real miles on it? First my reason for going to EFI was for drivability and reliability. The factory carb was tired and the engine would hardly run. The cost to overhaul the carb did not make sense to me. After some research I settled on a GM TBI. After the install the engine ran great. Smooth, easy to start, no choke to mess with, however recently a a terrible flat spot has developed at about 2000rpm. I have spent hours troubleshooting without any success and I am not one to just start replacing parts. The two added sensors (coolant temp and O2) both check out good, fuel pressure is spot on, plugs look good no indication of running rich or lean, no vacuum leaks, and compression is good. My hunch is a ignition problem but now I have an after market distributor and a magic box that controls it. I grew up on points and carburation, I would have this sorted in a weekend. I am second guessing my decision, do I go back to the tractor era, keep it simple stupid.

 

[Lifelong40Fan]

I’d replace the fuel filter and have a fuel pressure gauge that can be read when the flat spot hits. 2000 is far from wot, but if there’s a pressure change beginning there, that could cause the issue.