20k in blue hub & still hot (1 Viewer)

[Buckru]

The background:
HG with all new hoses done at 186k
New oem 3 row brass rad and t-stat installed at 194k
Free Flow cat installed at 196k
New AC compressor and clutch at 210k (didn't do the work myself)
Last rad flush at 210k
Refilled new blue hub with 20k cst at 226k
Currently bypassed both heaters due to core leak(2nd summer like this, no probs last year)
She now sits at 226k and has been well maintained

I have been watching my temps creep up lately to the point of running about in the middle and a little higher sometimes with viscosity of 7k in the blue hub. I don't have a scanguage but I have done the RT temp guage mod so the guage is now linnear. Thought I'd cool her down a bit with some 20k. After the refill, temps went higher almost to red with ac off and about 98 oustide. I snugged up the belts in case they were slipping a bit. The effect is that it takes a little longer to heat soak but not much. After cold starting and etting her idle, needle stays about 1/4 up the guage for 20 mins before I shut her down. When under load is when it gets hot, be it freeway or slow driving. When it gets hot and I shut the ac off, it cools down some but not a tremendous amount. I haven't done my annual flush yet but I'll get that done as well to see if anything looks amiss there.

While letting it idle I crawled underneath and she sounded a little rough. Hearing this made me a bit nervous but I really don't have the expertise to make a judgement by sound. With the truck stumbling a bit I pulled the plugs, a little ashy white, not sure what that means. Haven't pulled the cap yet.

The only cooling system piece not yet replaced is the water pump. I put a dowel on it and listened to what it souds like but not sure what it's supposed to sound like. I hear a little squeaking but nothing as abvious a blown bearing. Oil is good, at fluid good and the pan drained every 10 to 15k. I do have a bit of flaring when it shifts from 2nd to 3rd.

It is not throwing any codes.

Sure would appreciate some help on this. The obvious answer is water pump but I'm not one to throw money at it and hope that fixes her.

Thanks,

Buck

 

[landtank]

did you do the timing test on the blue clutch or just dump in the oil?

 

[rgsiii]

You may want to get something like a scangauge II--it would give you some precise numbers.

 

[Buckru]

I never tested the clutch. It has been on the truck since 148k. First with the factory fill. Changed to 7k about 2 years ago at 200k.

Not sure if this makes a difference in the actual clutch performance but I put it in the oven overnight on 150 to drain it. Both openings were wide open when I pulled it out and fully closed by the time she was filled.

Buck

 

[Buckru]

You may want to get something like a scangauge II--it would give you some precise numbers.

I hear ya.

 

[landtank]

I never tested the clutch.

Buck

you might try that.

 

[SUMMIT CRUISERS]

Is your fan blowing/roaring? If it is I would try removing the thermostat and see how the temps respond. Last weekend I just changed the fluid in my clutch with 20k and today at 104 it performed great and fan was hooked up and roaring.

 

[AFinn]

when doing your 'annual flush', change out the thermastat, sounds like this could possibly be stuck, and it is cheap.

i am here in phoenix, have the 20kcst, ( just did the dump in method, sorry rick) and have no heating issues.

 

[Buckru]

Is your fan blowing/roaring? If it is I would try removing the thermostat and see how the temps respond. Last weekend I just changed the fluid in my clutch with 20k and today at 104 it performed great and fan was hooked up and roaring.

I do get some roar but would have thought it might be more with 20k. It moves one heck of a lot of air though.

Rick, any tips on checking the clutch? If you know what link has the instructions in it, it would sure help me save a lot of time seaching. You know how many clutch threads there are? Actually you probably do

I would be surprised if it's the t-stat. I did feel the inlet and outlet hoses from the rad and both hoses heated up quickly versus gradually. Seems like the latter would happen with a partially opening t-stat but I cant say for sure.

Buck

 

[landtank]

when doing your 'annual flush', change out the thermastat, sounds like this could possibly be stuck, and it is cheap.

i am here in phoenix, have the 20kcst, ( just did the dump in method, sorry rick) and have no heating issues.

do what you want and the fact that you got the results that you wanted by just dumping in the oil is fine.

I've done a whole bunch of clutches now and while more are within a very tight range and would work fine with just the dump a few wouldn't have. The first of those is the one that started it all for me on this subject.

But since he's gone through several cts grades with minimal effect I'd say the clutch is timed so that it just isn't coming on do to a late timing.

Attached is the timing procedure, but spend the money on a good meat thermometer, the discount store ones are worthless for this.

 

[Buckru]

Rick, thank you very much for the testing proceedures. I was searching for them.

To be clear, with factory fill, it was ok. 7k worked for about a year and a half. Now after coming out of the oven it's either A. The clutch either has an issue or doesn't and I can test for it now. B I have another issue that came to light at the same time throwing me off a bit.

Can anyone explain what a smooth running water pump sounds like with a dowell to their ear? Might as well look at this at the same time.

Buck

 

[Tools R Us]

The clutch has worked well for a long time, you changed the fluid, so we know that is up to snuff. Feels like it's moving good air? If the clutch valve timing were off would have been a problem long before now, I don't see how it's going to change by itself? My guess is something else is going on?

Unless you have a bearing noise/play problem or a leak, the water pump would be way down my list. The t-stat has historically been extremely reliable and has been changed.

Check the ignition timing, if advanced too far, can cause loaded heating?

 

[Buckru]

The clutch has worked well for a long time, you changed the fluid, so we know that is up to snuff. Feels like it's moving good air? If the clutch valve timing were off would have been a problem long before now, I don't see how it's going to change by itself? My guess is something else is going on?

Unless you have a bearing noise/play problem or a leak, the water pump would be way down my list. The t-stat has historically been extremely reliable and has been changed.

Check the ignition timing, if advanced too far, can cause loaded heating?

I pulled the cap and a new dizzy is in store for me.

Kevin,

The clutch is moving a lot of air. I would have thought it would "roar" more at startup. Luckily, I looked in the attic for some old parts an tada- the old Eaton. Ill still keep the blue hub but might as well throw some 15 into the "blue dot" hub and toss her in.

When I did the HG, I set the timing as per fsm. What would cause the timing to change?

Buck

 

[Tools R Us]

I pulled the cap and a new dizzy is in store for me.

Why?

Kevin,

The clutch is moving a lot of air. I would have thought it would "roar" more at startup. Luckily, I looked in the attic for some old parts an tada- the old Eaton. Ill still keep the blue hub but might as well throw some 15 into the "blue dot" hub and toss her in.

The newer blue hubs are way less violent compared to the older clutches. They work, but with less noise, never "seem" as effective as the older ones. That said, I doubt the clutch is your problem, but it's only a little fluid and time to try the Eaton?

When I did the HG, I set the timing as per fsm. What would cause the timing to change?

Buck

Mainly wear items, dist bushings, chain stretch, etc.

 

[Buckru]

Also, while out there I just realized I hadn't properly seated the bottom of the fan shroud into the little clips. I don't believe that would be enough to casue this heat spike?

Buck

 

[Buckru]

Why?

The end of the dizzy looks worn down. There is some white calcium looking stuff on the contacts inside the cap as well. I figured I'd just touch those up with some fine grit.

Buck

 

[bpassmore]

Buck, I think it is time to part her out. I call dibs on the Hanna equipment and arb bumper.

 

[Buckru]

Buck, I think it is time to part her out. I call dibs on the Hanna equipment and arb bumper.

Lock up the wife and kids, the big man is out of chat and on the loose.

How are ya? Glad to hear you found a good driveline shop.

Buck

 

[bpassmore]

Lock up the wife and kids, the big man is out of chat and on the loose.

How are ya? Glad to hear you found a good driveline shop.

Buck

I may be out of chat, but my posts are still as useless.

I am doing well business is good and the future is looking bright.

Hope you are doing well.

 

[Buckru]

UPDATE
I found the old Eaton clutch in my parts pile. I thought I would thow it in and would be golden giving me the time to test the blue hub per Tanks instructions. I filled the Eaton with 15k and it is running hotter than the blue hub with 20k. Blue hub is back in and haven't tested it yet. I went to my mechanics and borrowed a snapon reader. Actual temps were running between 199 and 205 with ac on and 98* running around never above 45mph. At night, I'm getting the same temps. I flushed the system with Peak flush and then ran 2 water cycles to clean it out. I went ahead and replaced the T-stat as cheap insurance and then filled with coolant and distilled water. No difference in temps. I checked the timing and while it was off by 1/2 a degree, it didn't help with running hot but it sure helped smooth out my idle.

What should I start looking at and testing next?


Buck