2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion (1 Viewer)

[jayp2]

How about Jeep? Toyota also already sold a FJ40 revival, the FJ Cruiser. How were sales? If only the top came off.

This has all been posted multiple times Sparky

Y'all complain and wring your hands when I mention things more than once.....

FJ Cruiser bombed in the US primarily because it had horrific visibility issues to the entire right/rear quarter...it was an accident waiting to happen.

I recall getting in one when first released and handed the keys back to the salesman without driving it

EVERYONE I knew steered away from it because of that problem.

 

[ThRiLlGmYr]

FJ Cruiser bombed in the US primarily because it had horrific visibility issues to the entire right/rear quarter...it was an accident waiting to happen.

Wow, Toyota sucks. Buy a Bronco. Better yet, go the Ineos route and make your own Land Cruiser. The legal precedent has been set, you guys could pool your money and make a killing. 100,000 cars a year easy.

 

[Hiluxforever]

I mean if we are going with hyperbole go buy an Icon. What's 200k between friends.

 

[jayp2]

Wow, Toyota sucks. Buy a Bronco. Better yet, go the Ineos route and make your own Land Cruiser. The legal precedent has been set, you guys could pool your money and make a killing. 100,000 cars a year easy.

Cool story bro...

I put my money down and bought a vehicle that checked all the boxes for it....a JDM 77 and a 40 I've owned for decades.

If Toyota isnt hamstrung by the marketing dept and instead is permitted to bring the US a variant of one of the very successful non us land cruiser models then there's a good chance I'd buy one.

 

[malden]

Speaking of INEOs, read the bios of the Founder and team. They are not exactly business amateurs. They are investing untold millions in an offroad beast based clearly on supportive market research. Bronco and Jeep (sorry) have had their way with this market for too long and the team at INEOS mean to make hay. And Toyota will join the fray in Japan and the USA with the new FJ70 or FJ-like machine that will potentially rival and surpass anything on the market.

Like the Japanese writer noted in the article I posted earlier, the modern FJ70 is ” a model that has focussed on ‘getting you home alive’ when you do extreme offroad applications, and it is not just a styling or design concept for weekenders who want to get outdoors for a few hours.” These trucks are used in places where life depends on them working 100% of the time. And as a consequence, the allure of this massively capable and enduringly handsome truck will attract a lot of new buyers and Toyota will sell a “low volume” run easily. And that is the vibe coming from Japanese social media where excitement is running high as well. The fact that there will be expanded choice for consumers in the serious offroad vehicle market should be good news for everyone and a source of bitterness for no one. Buckle up and get ready!

 

[jayp2]

Speaking of INEOs, read the bios of the Founder and team. They are not exactly business amateurs. They are investing untold millions in an offroad beast based clearly on supportive market research. Bronco and Jeep (sorry) have had their way with this market for too long and the team at INEOS mean to make hay. And Toyota will join the fray in Japan and the USA with the new FJ70 or FJ-like machine that will potentially rival and surpass anything on the market.

I looked at the INEOs vehicle and checked out when I learned they are using a B58 BMW engine and ZF transmission.

That engine can be configured to put out a lot of power but its a PIA to service and you can forget about rebuild because of the cylinder lining and lack of room for a sleeve.

Couldnt find any mention of what they are using for the rest of the drive train.....dog forbid its standard bmw fare xdrive....

 

[ThRiLlGmYr]

Speaking of INEOs, read the bios of the Founder and team. They are not exactly business amateurs. They are investing untold millions in an offroad beast based clearly on supportive market research. Bronco and Jeep (sorry) have had their way with this market for too long and the team at INEOS mean to make hay. And Toyota will join the fray in Japan and the USA with the new FJ70 or FJ-like machine that will potentially rival and surpass anything on the market.

Like the Japanese writer noted in the article I posted earlier, the modern FJ70 is ” a model that has focussed on ‘getting you home alive’ when you do extreme offroad applications, and it is not just a styling or design concept for weekenders who want to get outdoors for a few hours.” These trucks are used in places where life depends on them working 100% of the time. And as a consequence, the allure of this massively capable and enduringly handsome truck will attract a lot of new buyers and Toyota will sell a “low volume” run easily. And that is the vibe coming from Japanese social media where excitement is running high as well. The fact that there will be expanded choice for consumers in the serious offroad vehicle market should be good news for everyone and a source of bitterness for no one. Buckle up and get ready!

INEOS is making a Land Rover clone, you guys would destroy them with your Land Cruiser idea. Toyota has failed you. Time to step up. You guys have all the numbers to back it up. Hell, maybe you can partner with INEOS to build it. Next stop INEOS forums if I was you guys.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

I looked at the INEOs vehicle and checked out when I learned they are using a B58 BMW engine and ZF transmission.

That engine can be configured to put out a lot of power but its a PIA to service and you can forget about rebuild because of the cylinder lining and lack of room for a sleeve.

Couldnt find any mention of what they are using for the rest of the drive train.....dog forbid its standard bmw fare xdrive....

Maybe they are using ZF for the rest?

 

[CBeckFJ]

I looked at the INEOs vehicle and checked out when I learned they are using a B58 BMW engine and ZF transmission.

That engine can be configured to put out a lot of power but its a PIA to service and you can forget about rebuild because of the cylinder lining and lack of room for a sleeve.

Couldnt find any mention of what they are using for the rest of the drive train.....dog forbid its standard bmw fare xdrive....

The INEOS runs a detuned B58 making 282 hp (40 less than any BMW variant) and a lot more torque. They also utilize solid front and rear axles, available with locking diffs built by Magna.

 

[MeWantLC]

I am this close to buy a Jeep, add one of those $10k tents, and called done. Still a NA V6, better MPG, It can even be a manuel !

 

[malden]

I have no question in my mind that the INEOS will be a worthy competitor for the new FJ70, but my point regards the marketing behind the massive investment. Clearly INEOS sees built up latent demand for an extreme off-road, overlanding, critical missions applications above and beyond what is currently available, just like Toyota does. But the Grenadier (though very cool) is a Defender clone. That may be its Achilles heel. I have driven Land Cruisers on 4 continents and in places that would make many reader’s hair curl. On Safari in Tanzania with rebel, government forces, poachers, brigands and hungry animals nearby, a breakdown means a quick off road excursion to the next world. In places like that you don’t see Defenders. You see Defenders in the chic quarters of Paris, on driven shoots in Scotland or as police cars for the Italians. But if anyone has even the slightest risk of having their butt on the line, there is only one choice and it isn’t Nostalgia that leads people in this situation to choose an FJ70, its love of life.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

I have no question in my mind that the INEOS will be a worthy competitor for the new FJ70, but my point regards the marketing behind the massive investment. Clearly INEOS sees built up latent demand for an extreme off-road, overlanding, critical missions applications above and beyond what is currently available, just like Toyota does. But the Grenadier (though very cool) is a Defender clone. That may be its Achilles heel. I have driven Land Cruisers on 4 continents and in places that would make many reader’s hair curl. On Safari in Tanzania with rebel, government forces, poachers, brigands and hungry animals nearby, a breakdown means a quick off road excursion to the next world. In places like that you don’t see Defenders. You see Defenders in the chic quarters of Paris, on driven shoots in Scotland or as police cars for the Italians. But if anyone has even the slightest risk of having their butt on the line, there is only one choice and it isn’t Nostalgia that leads people in this situation to choose an FJ70, its love of life.

I understand your passion and use case, you are an exception to the rule for the typical US buyer.

80%-90% of Americans buy an offroader because it looks cool, want the higher stance, etc., it may never see so much as a dirt road.

10%-15% enjoy offroading from mild to wild. It may be only 5% or less that ever really use an offroader to the extreme you do. All of the above is speaking to first owner stats, not used, buggies, etc.

Jeep, Ford and Toyota know this, their US designs will reflect this, and their marketing will milk it for everything it is worth.

 

[m4hk33]

Stop pretending that there's anything good natured about the so called mocking.

The only thing comical is the cheerleading of some family school bus designs with a ton of expensive plastic and an automatic cheerio roomba sweeper with round lites that they try to channel the "LC Heritage" over.

If Toyota wanted to get back to their roots/land cruiser heritage then they would be looking to do a reboot on the vehicles that opened the door to the US market

Specifically the 40 and 60 series.

Not only that, but american buyers have made it clear what they want to buy.......to the order of 250,000 bronco's and jeeps every year.

Guaranteed win would be to bring a 73 with removeable top and a 76 style 4 door to the US.

Sadly, many of us have watched Toyota snatch defeat from the jaws of victory numerous times in the US market.

If you want to see "good natured mocking" then wait and see what happens if Toyota brings another lexus lite with a LC badge to the market and it bombs just like the last iteration did or the FJ Cruiser with its visibility design flaw.

The comedy right now is how we went from one particularly vocal poster asserting that a 70 series wouldnt sell a single unit in the US to a large portion of posters drooling over the possibility of a 76 looking LC coming to the US.

I think there is a lot of emotion on the top as a lot of us grew up in the era when Toyota produced stuff like the 80 series and the MKIV Supra. World class vehicles that could be modified endlessly and were essentially bomb proof in factory form. Fast forward to today and Toyota doesn't produce anything interesting. The Supra is BMW Z4 is a body kit, and LC has merged with the Tundra and sequoia. I think the LC500 and RCF are cool in concept but there really isnt any content out there thats really selling them something special.

I just think that with how much we are paying for vehicles, a manufacture has to offer something interesting.

Dodge has their hellcats and TRX's
GM/Chevy have ZR1 Corvettes and ZL1 Camaros.
BMW has their M Cars.
MB has their AMG's
Ford has Raptors, Mustang GT3's and The GT
Nissan has their GTR

Regardless how one feels about any of these particular manufactures, I would venture a guess that most of these higher badge level outsells whatever combination Microwave/Refrigerator that Toyota is presenting as their flagship.

I am not the biggest chevy fan nor am i a NASCAR fan but Chevy entering a Camarro into LeMans and outrunning most of the GTE class was damn impressive. and while they did not end up winning that class, i can respect getting in there and letting the cards fall where they may.

I really like the new GX, and am excited about the new LC but it really all comes down to value proposition. If everything Toyota produces falls within a narrow channel that can really be interchangeable with one another I am not sure if thats going to be enough to drop 80k. Its just the same s*** repackaged a dozen different times.

 

[El Skywalker]

The "Tone" from a few folks that are incapable if ignoring posts they dont like is plain for all to see....and the reason for the "pretending" is so they dont create additional work for the mods who are forced to slap them around.

Its like the teeth gnashing poster who pitched a fit not long ago asserting "not a single 70 would sell if Toyota brought them to the US".

The facts are the facts.....US consumers have spoken about what they are willing to purchase to the order of 250,000 vehicles every year in this segment.

The only question that remains is whether or not Toyota will bring variants of LC models already created for non US markets here to the US to satisfy that demand....or will they continue to permit Ford and Jeep dominate.

Find another forum.
You're points are well taken even thought they are atrocious.

Also get a life

 

[malden]

80%-90% of Americans buy an offroader because it looks cool, want the higher stance, etc., it may never see so much as a dirt road.

10%-15% enjoy offroading from mild to wild. It may be only 5% or less that ever really use an offroader to the extreme you do. All of the above is speaking to first owner stats, not used, buggies, etc.

Jeep, Ford and Toyota know this, their US designs will reflect this, and their marketing will milk it for everything it is worth.

Tex, pretty sobering analysis. Looking at those numbers its pretty hard to understand why INEOS is coming Stateside. The Grenadier will sell well in Europe as Defender curiosity pieces and because they are EU made if not for their prowess. I would have thought that given all the public land there would be more interest in adventure offroad use in America. I dare say there is more interest in Europe where SUVs are under constant attack and opportunities to use them is limited.

 

[jayp2]

I think there is a lot of emotion on the top as a lot of us grew up in the era when Toyota produced stuff like the 80 series and the MKIV Supra. World class vehicles that could be modified endlessly and were essentially bomb proof in factory form. Fast forward to today and Toyota doesn't produce anything interesting. The Supra is BMW Z4 is a body kit, and LC has merged with the Tundra and sequoia. I think the LC500 and RCF are cool in concept but there really isnt any content out there thats really selling them something special.

I just think that with how much we are paying for vehicles, a manufacture has to offer something interesting.

Dodge has their hellcats and TRX's
GM/Chevy have ZR1 Corvettes and ZL1 Camaros.
BMW has their M Cars.
MB has their AMG's
Ford has Raptors, Mustang GT3's and The GT
Nissan has their GTR

Regardless how one feels about any of these particular manufactures, I would venture a guess that most of these higher badge level outsells whatever combination Microwave/Refrigerator that Toyota is presenting as their flagship.

I am not the biggest chevy fan nor am i a NASCAR fan but Chevy entering a Camarro into LeMans and outrunning most of the GTE class was damn impressive. and while they did not end up winning that class, i can respect getting in there and letting the cards fall where they may.

I really like the new GX, and am excited about the new LC but it really all comes down to value proposition. If everything Toyota produces falls within a narrow channel that can really be interchangeable with one another I am not sure if thats going to be enough to drop 80k. Its just the same s*** repackaged a dozen different times.

Careful....you're making too much sense (blasphemy to some) wrt making stuff people want to buy and are gonna find yourself on the recieving end of personal attacks from the intolerant ones

 

[TexasFunRunner]

Tex, pretty sobering analysis. Looking at those numbers its pretty hard to understand why INEOS is coming Stateside. The Grenadier will sell well in Europe as Defender curiosity pieces and because they are EU made if not for their prowess. I would have thought that given all the public land there would be more interest in adventure offroad use in America. I dare say there is more interest in Europe where SUVs are under constant attack and opportunities to use them is limited.

My visits to Paris, London, Rome, Frankfurt and Hamburg on business showed me there were as many Land Rovers on the streets as status symbols as there are on the US streets, without a spec of dirt on them. Again, the Europeans may love the cool look, higher stance, etc., but you know how narrow many of the European streets are, the only thing they excel at in the cities is bumper cars in the roundabouts.

 

[malden]

My visits to Paris, London, Rome, Frankfurt and Hamburg on business showed me there were as many Land Rovers on the streets as status symbols as there are on the US streets, without a spec of dirt on them. Again, the Europeans may love the cool look, higher stance, etc., but you know how narrow many of the European streets are, the only thing they excel at in the cities is bumper cars in the roundabouts.

If you survived Paris and Rome roundabouts, you can graduate and taken on Naples where all traffic laws are purely discretionary.

And yes, the Range Rover is very much a compulsory status symbol most places in the EU...if you don't mind an occasional keying or having your tires deflated.

 

[Knowbuddy]

If you survived Paris and Rome roundabouts, you can graduate and taken on Naples where all traffic laws are purely discretionary.

And yes, the Range Rover is very much a compulsory status symbol most places in the EU...if you don't mind an occasional keying or having your tires deflated.

Lived in Italy for a few years. Specifically Palermo and Catania (Sicily) and Bari (Puglia). Drove a Sprinter Van while there and made a few trips to Naples. Took a buddy of mine through the area and he stated that it was the craziest driving experience of his life. Lol you get used to it after awhile but Rome is mild compared to southern Italy that is for sure.

 

[malden]

Lived in Italy for a few years. Specifically Palermo and Catania (Sicily) and Bari (Puglia). Drove a Sprinter Van while there and made a few trips to Naples. Took a buddy of mine through the area and he stated that it was the craziest driving experience of his life. Lol you get used to it after awhile but Rome is mild compared to southern Italy that is for sure.

+1


The first couple drives in Naples are like a very intense video game. Cars are coming at you from all directions, stop signs are obeyed only if a driver needs to send a text or is in a passionate conversation, red lights (or green) get a pretty good following but not at all unanimous, cars merge from every direction and there does not seem to be a right of way. After a while you begin to see the logic of the chaos and driving becomes pretty fun, well ….kinda fun. There is such charm (and beauty) to Naples and all of S Italy that you get pretty intoxicated by it, and if you don’t watch out when you reopen your eyes a quarter of a century has passed and you just want more. Parts of Sicily and Puglia are about as close to paradise as I have ever seen and I been a lot of places.