It’s smaller. The battery takes up some space.
it’s more the size of a 4Runner back there
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
it’s more the size of a 4Runner back there
Steering is exceptionally light at low speeds.
I'm a big fan of the implementation so I'll expand on this.
A lot of the times driving at low speeds is a pain in the ass because you need to maneuver around obstacles, sometimes rocks, sometimes trees, sometimes curbs and other cars. The light steering input requirements make the vehicle act and feel far more nimble than w/ the 200 series hydraulic steering. The added benefit is that when the engine is off (and on electric only power) steering feel is unaffected.
Steering feel is programmed in the system to be what it is. Those that complain about the steering don't typically fully understand how it's configured. If the same steering feel at low speeds were the case on highway speeds traveling down i5 at 100+mph, a simple mindless jerk of the steering wheel would send the LC250 careening over the side of the road along Oregon's beautiful scenery.
This was not the case.
With the pre-existing speed specific steering wheel force configuration, it's far resistant at errant inputs at high speeds as it should to maintain safety, steering feel, and feedback. All in all, it's a good system compared to the LC200, esp after arm day at the gym.
If we're gonna be honest here, I'm far more annoyed at the Jiggle the engine does when it starts and stops. This is due to the engine hooking (clutch engagement) up with the MGU prior to the engine RPMs being fast enough to stop shaking. Toyota would've done better with a 2.4L Inline six, if we're to be honest, especially if it was a cast iron block (more bewst!). Alternatively, they could've made the MGU more powerful so engine engagement happens later. I've noticed that starting off the line, the electric only part is only for a VERY VERY small 1/2 second and then switches to gas only. That said, I can hit 40mph on electric only, they need an EV mode gauge and a preference on Electric when cruising.
Having extensive experience of Toyota's Modern Parallel Hybrid Synergy System like the Venza, gives me some really good insight on how WELL the system could perform and what could be done instead. I want to try the Tacoma's Part Time 4WD system to see if it experiences the same issue. I feel like it might be less of an issue since it's not full time 4wd like the LC250.
Other annoyances in the 1958:
I'm a big fan of the implementation so I'll expand on this.
A lot of the times driving at low speeds is a pain in the ass because you need to maneuver around obstacles, sometimes rocks, sometimes trees, sometimes curbs and other cars. The light steering input requirements make the vehicle act and feel far more nimble than w/ the 200 series hydraulic steering. The added benefit is that when the engine is off (and on electric only power) steering feel is unaffected.
Steering feel is programmed in the system to be what it is. Those that complain about the steering don't typically fully understand how it's configured. If the same steering feel at low speeds were the case on highway speeds traveling down i5 at 100+mph, a simple mindless jerk of the steering wheel would send the LC250 careening over the side of the road along Oregon's beautiful scenery.
This was not the case.
With the pre-existing speed specific steering wheel force configuration, it's far resistant at errant inputs at high speeds as it should to maintain safety, steering feel, and feedback. All in all, it's a good system compared to the LC200, esp after arm day at the gym.
If we're gonna be honest here, I'm far more annoyed at the Jiggle the engine does when it starts and stops. This is due to the engine hooking (clutch engagement) up with the MGU prior to the engine RPMs being fast enough to stop shaking. Toyota would've done better with a 2.4L Inline six, if we're to be honest, especially if it was a cast iron block (more bewst!). Alternatively, they could've made the MGU more powerful so engine engagement happens later. I've noticed that starting off the line, the electric only part is only for a VERY VERY small 1/2 second and then switches to gas only. That said, I can hit 40mph on electric only, they need an EV mode gauge and a preference on Electric when cruising.
Having extensive experience of Toyota's Modern Parallel Hybrid Synergy System like the Venza, gives me some really good insight on how WELL the system could perform and what could be done instead. I want to try the Tacoma's Part Time 4WD system to see if it experiences the same issue. I feel like it might be less of an issue since it's not full time 4wd like the LC250.
Other annoyances in the 1958:
- Instrument panel
- Doesn't use full space, lots of empty areas even w/ the given screen
- No separate button or display for Trip Meter/Odometer
- No manual lumbar adjustment, even the 2012 Tacoma had this
- No Sunglasses holder due to Tech Package that's now mandatory
- No 12V socket inside the center console storage
- No second Sun Visor like the LC200
- No electric only mode
- No Hybrid gauge. You only see the Hybrid (iForce Max) gauge through scrolling through several menus
- No persistent MPG gauge
- Ni-MH vs LiFEPO4 battery which is a 50% weight reduction and 260% increase in storage (in the same footprint)
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2002
- Threads
- 168
- Messages
- 5,366
- Location
- Durango, Colorado
- Website
- www.durangomagazine.com
Toyota will be selling us all a LiFEPO4 upgrade in 10 years. Which if the remainder of the truck holds up will probably be a good value as I'm gussing it will solve many of your other complaints.
Wouldn’t be an upgrade in my book. LIFEP04 batteries traditionally have been slow to charge, have a limited temperature range, and are more expensive than Ni-Mh batteries. Toyota is a financial company and will always go with the tried and true.
ryanjl
SILVER Star
My perception is that Ni-Mh is dinosaur technology as far as hybrids go, which means it's been around long enough to be as reliable as it gets.
Did I say "perception?" I mean "hope."
Did I say "perception?" I mean "hope."
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2002
- Threads
- 168
- Messages
- 5,366
- Location
- Durango, Colorado
- Website
- www.durangomagazine.com
Well keep in mind battery tech will evolve in 10 years. Something way better should fit in the same spot.
- Thread starter
- #147
So the width comes in from the wide fender flares on the vehicle, but as the driver, you don’t see these going down the road so it makes it feel much smaller, even though it really isn’t.
Ni-Mh batteries make sense in that the raw materials are easier to source (i.e., not at the mercy of political whims in that much of the lithium still comes from China). They also have a long standing relationship with Panasonic for Ni-Mh technology (Matsushita and Toyota Establish Panasonic EV Energy Co., Ltd. for Ni-MH EV Batteries | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website - https://global.toyota/en/detail/8144406)
hoser
SILVER Star
I'm not against Electric Power Steering (EPS) but I'm not sold on it yet. The main push for EPS is reduce excess engine loads to increase fuel mileage. Same with electric cooling fans. Up until the LC250 (and LX600), all LC's had engine driven hydraulic power steering. I like "engine driven" because the engine almost always runs and when it doesn't, P/S doesn't matter too much as long as you can muscle it to safety. Electric P/S adds another failure point.
Interestingly, the LX600 uses EPS but the rest of the world, LC300 uses engine driven hydraulic P/S. The LC300 uses hydraulic Variable Flow Control power steering... which gives easier effort for parking and a different setting for off-road that reduces kick-back. The latest LC70 uses a similar set-up.
Personally, I like feeling the road through the steering and so I usually choose hydraulic over electric. EPS has been out a long time... easily over 30 years but only more recently on SUV/Trucks.... probably out of need for fuel efficiency. For a road vehicle, I would certainly go for a hydraulic system but driven by an electric motor. Seems like the best of both worlds (when reliability/trail fixes is not paramount).
Speaking of "excess engine loads." The LC250 is also the first (that I know of) LC that uses electric fans. This is fine for a road vehicle but is not really in line with the Land Cruiser mantra. It's one extra failure point... and one where there is no easy trail fix. For hydraulic clutch fan, you can drill a few holes through the assembly, insert some screws and it'll lock the fan up and you are on your way.
I'm not 100% convinced about the driveshaft driven fans though. enough water crossings have made me not happy about them in general.
The move to EPS is so they can implement technologies that require steering input: lane keeping assist, traffic jam assist…
It was an inevitable move.
EPS is still a mechanical rack. So like hydraulic if it fails you should be able to muscle the steering wheel.
We’re not talking drive by wire.
We’re not talking drive by wire.
hoser
SILVER Star
I initially thought that at first too but the LC300 has those options such as Lane Trace Assist... in addition to the hydraulic system I mentioned. The electric motor is on the steering column. It's certainly more complicated and more expensive than to have just one electric motor do it all though.
Valid point. I've broken a blade off my fan before. I'm surprised nobody as come up with a mechanical fan disconnect like a hub-lock.
Yes, I understand that but can you imagine trying to "muscle" your steering on a trail that normally take 5-6 hours at 1-2 mph. Actually, a steering by wire system on the Cybertruck might be more reliable than EPS as it has redundant electric motors.
The EPS in the 250 is one of my favorite things about it. With 1,400 miles on the odometer, this feature has really started to shine imo. The more you drive it the more you appreciate it - especially when you drive a hydraulic system in between. It's amazing how much kickback and jitter it takes out of road imperfections all the way up to baby-head sized rocks. It feels fabulous backing out of the tight driveway, at highway speed, and on trails. The Toyota engineer that programmed the settings must be in line with my taste on steering feel.
I see how some people like to feel the road, but a couple of hours of steering kickback wears me down on a rough trail. I don't have 200 series experience though, so maybe its hydraulic system is good. My FJC is ok, but the 250 is much improved. I grew up driving a '78 FJ40 and the 250 is light years ahead of that experience. I love the old school hard to steer FJ40 but I'll probably put in a City Racer EPS system one of these days to see how it feels.
Before the 250 was available, I remember some reviewers complaining about the GX and 250 going away from hydraulic, but I'm pleased Toyota did. And another fluid I don't have to change, seems like a plus to me.
I see how some people like to feel the road, but a couple of hours of steering kickback wears me down on a rough trail. I don't have 200 series experience though, so maybe its hydraulic system is good. My FJC is ok, but the 250 is much improved. I grew up driving a '78 FJ40 and the 250 is light years ahead of that experience. I love the old school hard to steer FJ40 but I'll probably put in a City Racer EPS system one of these days to see how it feels.
Before the 250 was available, I remember some reviewers complaining about the GX and 250 going away from hydraulic, but I'm pleased Toyota did. And another fluid I don't have to change, seems like a plus to me.
Agree on the steering. Amazing.
I saw that Ben Calhoun was saying it’s effortless with the 38’s in the trail as well. Thats impressive
I saw that Ben Calhoun was saying it’s effortless with the 38’s in the trail as well. Thats impressive
hoser
SILVER Star
Appreciate the feedback. Steering feel is definitely subjective and we all have our individual preferences. I haven't driven a 250 yet but I know EPS is getting better and better over time. I'm mostly interested in how robust the EPS is, how it drives when failed. Can one remove the motor and reduce the steering effort when failed? Electric motors can often fail abruptly and without warning. Should one just carry a spare EPS motor or are there other common failure points? I mean, the system is tied into a lot of other sensors, right? I'll just have to wait until I can get my hands on a FSM.
Depends - the upper version has basically the same feature. That being said, i do like it on my Land Cruiser 200 so I would miss it, especially on the long rough corrugated roads I drive on. It really makes a difference with the head bob.I have asked before but allow me to do again:
What are the comments/feelings of the LC250 lack of KDSS vs the 200's KDSS?
. THANKS !
reddog90
SILVER Star
FYI I have 3 kids 4YO and under, plus two big dogs. We travel in my 200 and a hitch basket is an absolute must. I previously had a giant roof box and it was such a PITA, my pakmule is much better for my needs. Without dogs, trunk space in the 200 is usually sufficient for us. We fit 3 car seats in the 2nd row just fine. YMMV.
Pretty sure you can buy the 7pin to 4pin adapter from harbor freight and just plug it in. The car thinks it’s towing and should shut it off. Common trick on other vehicle brands, and I’m assuming it’s the same for Toyota?
