Really? Where would you charge-up on the Dalton Highway?
200 - Last of a Great Breed
- Thread starter dnh1
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That they are/have been extensively used my US military.
for when I go up the Dalton I’d take my daughters Colorado. Other then trips up the Dalton/dempster, a Silverado EV with >450 mile range should do most things I use the LX for better (and much cheaper) then my LX. I’ve gotten aware lately of just how much money I waste driving the LX, I took the model 3 to Homer and back for a bike race this summer, 450 miles round trip. It cost me >$100 less (even with a ~40% range hit from the bike rack) and took less time than it would have in the LX.
That said, the north slope companies are putting hundreds of Silverado EVs in service at the fields and pump stations. I am guessing soon’ish (if not already) there will be high speed charging along the Dalton. The big question is if they will be publicly accessible.
I’m also not getting rid of the LX (probably ever). I just don’t really drive it much, other then towing the camper.
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Time will tell if this is correct or not.
IMHO, I feel like this is the crappy sequel to the 70’s gas crises which brought on the end of the American muscle car era and birthed the econo-poop box car phase. We didn’t see it then but bringing in the Japanese car manufacturers eventually led to what we enjoyed through the 90’s- 2010, affordable sports cars and 4x4’s. While the foreign makes grew because of their reliability the American makes cut corners to keep up.
Now CAFE standards, not a gas crisis, is pushing us to smaller displacement, hybrids, EV’s and a number of combinations of this tech. Battery weight is now replacing the weight that build quality occupied and smaller forced induction engines coupled with electric motors are the replacement for displacement.
I don’t think cheap energy will bring us back to good N/A v8’s, it will have to be a cultural and political change and even then us craven torque lovers will be looked upon as if we have leprosy because we want grandma, children and the planet to choke and die.
IDGAF, I’m too old now… you’ll have to take the key fob from my cold dead hand.
xeuxaz
SILVER Star
I couldn't agree more.
If you are a craven torque lover, EVs can’t be beat. My model 3 is ~510 hp, ~550 ft/lbs at 0 rpms, also no 20-25% loss before it gets to the wheels so that 550 is closer to 650-700 ft/lbs if compared to an ICE.
I beat almost every muscle car I’ve ever raced (and I’m on all season tires) on the drag strip, auto cross, and stop light to stoplight. I have a buddy with a new Z06, I beat him so bad stoplight to stoplight that I was able to get I front of him. On the highway 40-70 I beat my buddy with a 991 gt2…. On the drag strip the gt2 only catches me at the very end, if I get a better start I win, that is a $65k car vs a $300k car.
I can drive ~100 miles round trip, run 15-20 passes on the 1/4 mile, beat mustangs, hell cats, corvette, AMGs, most Porsches, RS Audis,… all for <$10 in electricity.
I don't doubt any of this. The thing is though, any of those other ICE cars -especially if they are a MANUAL transmission- are 100 times more satisfying to drive than a model 3.
Well look at the Iron Pig!
I don’t think so. I’ve owned three 911’s (targa, turbo, gt3), a cayman s, E46 m3, caterham 7, track s2000 (400 hp Sc, full cage, not street legal), and 2 WRX sti, all of them manual transmission. My 2018 model 3 performance is at least as satisfying to drive on public roads and auto crossing as any of them. The steering, handling, suspension, brake feel are very similar to the what the s2000, cayman, and M3 were.
xeuxaz
SILVER Star
I have had a Plaid S, Performance 3, and we still have a Performance Y. They are incredible in a straight line. Very boring to drive, you can’t screw up. Brakes are horrific, especially on the Plaid.
Teslas/EVs are the perfect daily, but they absolutely don’t compare to a manual transmission proper sports car. It’s not about being the fastest, that’s just a wallet dick measuring game in most cases. It’s about the engaging feel, and the challenge of perfect heel/toe shifts.
This is all of course subjective but I have found myself seeking out a 997 manual turbo or maybe an older BMW to mess with.
Teslas/EVs are the perfect daily, but they absolutely don’t compare to a manual transmission proper sports car. It’s not about being the fastest, that’s just a wallet dick measuring game in most cases. It’s about the engaging feel, and the challenge of perfect heel/toe shifts.
This is all of course subjective but I have found myself seeking out a 997 manual turbo or maybe an older BMW to mess with.
It’s cyclical, I think in a way there will be more car enthusiasts as we’re going through a similar thing that happened in watches decades ago.
I see kids in the future asking us “you let them phase out these incredible machines!? What were you thinking!?”
Everybody has different tastes. I do think the Tesla Model 3 is a marvel though the versatility of that car is just astonishing.
Once I build the rest of the fleet out I’m sure I’ll add an electric car.
And the role of it will be: the car I drive when I’m stupendously hungover lol, silent car would be quite nice in that scenario.
I think you’re right about the younger generation. In my area I see lots of high school guys running around in square body Chevy’s and OJ Broncos and they are turning the wrenches on them as well as taking girls on dates in them. YouTube breaks those barriers that used to require dads, uncles, or the old timer at your crappy shop job to teach you through. This same generation also brought a lot of energy into the 2A scene thanks to games like call of duty. Hopefully I’ll be around when the cycle comes back around.
Model 3’s are dominating SCCA and have for 5-6 years now, an EV holds the pike peak record. I autocross my model 3 and are consistently top 2, but I’ll disclose I’ve been racing cars for >30 years. SCCA, ice (as in frozen lakes), enduro, rally, autocross.
From 2019. Electrifying Solo Nats - https://www.scca.com/articles/2015404-electrifying-solo-nats#:~:text=In%202019%2C%20four%20entrants%20competed,SCCA%20Solo%20Nationals%20Championship%20win.
xeuxaz
SILVER Star
I’ll say it again, I’m not discrediting their speed or track capabilities. (except their stock brakes, holy s*** they are awful) Seriously, the plaid is insane in a good way. It shouldn’t be something anyone can buy.
The enjoyment factor just isn’t there for me. I’d rather drive slower and row some gears. The noise and vibration are something I didn’t think I would miss.
I’m not knocking EVs. I simply would prefer an older ICE with a manual gear box for the fun car. Even if our daily kid transport (Performance Y) would crush it in most measurable benchmarks.
Why not build an EV with a manual transmission?
Because it still wouldn't have a gas engine that goes vroooooom
I have seen some homebrew EV conversions with a manual transmission. I don't think it really has the same feel as ICE (not just the noise/vibration). The sensation of speed growing in each gear wouldn't be the same. Basically, you'd just pop the clutch and then you'd be driving an automatic anyway, or shifting just because you feel like shifting. An electric motor creates the same peak torque at 0 rpm as it does at 6k rpm and spins all the way up to 10,000+ rpm with little loss of torque. With that output, a transmission becomes unnecessary a single tall gear ratio can take you from 0-150mph. So most modern EV's are built with a single drive gear, or no transmission at all in the traditional sense. There are some that have 2 speeds to keep things more efficient at high speed. Shifting would just slow things down, make more parts and complexity where it's not really needed.
I also love my model 3 for what it is, and do have a little fun in it
, but I find myself hunting for a miata or civic or something just to get the "rowing through the gears" feeling I've been missing since I sold my manual Acura TL back when I had sciatica almost 10 years ago and couldn't work the clutch for a while.
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Frankly, as a performance car enthusiast, I enjoy both gassers and EVs. Gassers for feel and nostalgia, it's so satisfying when getting things right in an analogue row your own car. Add a turbo dimension to that with boost management. I likewise have spent time on the track and autocross. The sheer engagement can't be beat.
I also appreciate the purity of EVs, and they deserve respect in their own right as it's performance on steroids. No constraints of gear/gear shifts, less torque management, allowing focus on driving technique. It's a missile on public roads.
Give me both.
I also appreciate the purity of EVs, and they deserve respect in their own right as it's performance on steroids. No constraints of gear/gear shifts, less torque management, allowing focus on driving technique. It's a missile on public roads.
Give me both.
Man, what was this thread about again? I am lost...
