200 - Last of a Great Breed

[dnh1]

I really do feel like the 200 is the last of its kind that we will see, at least from Toyota. For all of the negative on-line articles over the years about it being a dinosaur, clunky, lacking technology, etc., it's the most solid, reliable, tank of a truck that exists. I have owned several 200 series, buying my first in August 2009, and have driven one essentially ever since, minus a 9 month period when I lost my mind and bought a Range Rover. My current 200 is a 2019 and I love it as much as the day I got it.

I bought a 250 and kept it for 6 days before deciding to trade it back in. It's not that the 250 is not a nice truck, but it is also not like a 200. I love the V8, I love the noise the doors make when you slam them closed, I love the tailgate. I love the fact that it's basic in many ways but also luxurious in many ways. Take the factory stereos (especially on LX but also on LC). The leather seats. The overall heavy feel of the steering. It is just a solid beast of a truck. Even if they did bring the 300 here as an LC, it's not the same thing. The twin turbo V6, etc. versus the old school engine and components in our trucks. The lack of a tailgate, etc.

It's a shame that Toyota had to make decisions based on EPA regulations and whatever else, but I am for one thankful for the fact I have a 200 and can keep it a long time. I have had my truck almost 5 years and it only has 67,000 miles on it. I plan to drive it until it won't go any more.

 

[32cls6speedmt]

Agreed.

By the way. It is time for a coolant flush.

 

[TimCFJ40]

I think you're right we won't see another. The genre of "boring overbuilt rock solid reliable vehicles" has it's fans, but certainly wasn't growing. Based on US Sales data, customers told Toyota a rock solid boring $90k truck doesn't sell, so they pivoted. Both the Range Rover and the Defender outsold the Land Cruiser by 5-6x EACH in 2021, even with known reliability issues.

The initial sales numbers on the 250 series say Toyota was right. We'll see if the pace sustains, or if the new wears off and the new 4 runner steals some sales.

I am curious if all of those "Bring back an 80 series sized truck, base model, cloth seats" folks have put their money where their mouth is and bought a 1958 trim. Adjusted for inflation, the $55k sticker price is very slightly cheaper than the $25k sticker price was in 1992 for a cloth seat 80 series.

 

[Heckraiser]

I'll probably be getting a used 250 in a few years when the prices come down (or maybe a 4runner depending on how those turn out?) I bought the 200 while I still had my 80 and the both of them together were a great pair--80 for hard wheeling and local camping, 200 for towing and road trips. But the 200 is really big and heavy for serious wheeling, mpg makes me cringe a little (though no worse than the 80) and frankly, looks pretty dumpy designed in the mid-00's plastic bubble era. IMO, the pinnacle toyota for it's time was the fzj80--but it's hard to make a 30 year old truck perform to modern standards.

I love and appreciate the 200 for what it is, and it truly is an incredibly well-rounded truck. My preference is is just something a little smaller.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I think you're right we won't see another. The genre of "boring overbuilt rock solid reliable vehicles" has it's fans, but certainly wasn't growing. Based on US Sales data, customers told Toyota a rock solid boring $90k truck doesn't sell, so they pivoted. Both the Range Rover and the Defender outsold the Land Cruiser by 5-6x EACH in 2021, even with known reliability issues.

The majority of people want tech, massaging seats, a car that drives itself, and perceived prestige. Vehicles, much like everything else in our world, are now disposable one-offs. Planned obsolescence is very much the norm in all products, and Toyota is no exception.

The era of reliability has gone down the same drain as fixing a tear in your jeans. (How many people still own thread and needles?) We'll never see it again IMO.

 

[liv2bike]

We got to touch and feel the "new" Land Cruiser this weekend for the first time. My 13 yr old twins climbed inside and literally asked me "what happened to the Land Cruiser?" My wife stated she's so happy we found an engine for ours. Yes, our 200 has a blown engine (valve spring failure), but $hit happens and it's worth resurrecting. The new Land Cruiser...isn't a Land Cruiser. It's not even close, based on our experience this weekend.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

We got to touch and feel the "new" Land Cruiser this weekend for the first time. My 13 yr old twins climbed inside and literally asked me "what happened to the Land Cruiser?" My wife stated she's so happy we found an engine for ours. Yes, our 200 has a blown engine (valve spring failure), but $hit happens and it's worth resurrecting. The new Land Cruiser...isn't a Land Cruiser. It's not even close, based on our experience this weekend.

My wife and I saw an LX600 in the wild for the first time a couple months ago. It was going the other way and my wife (who does a great job of spotting LX/GX trucks on the road) said something along the lines of "Oh wow, is that the new GX? It's so f***ing ugly." Personally, I don't hate it (and it could probably grow on me over time), but I don't love it, either. And I share that sentiment all across the new Toyota/Lexus lineup. Meh.

 

[TimCFJ40]

The majority of people want tech, massaging seats, a car that drives itself, and perceived prestige. Vehicles, much like everything else in our world, are now disposable one-offs. Planned obsolescence is very much the norm in all products, and Toyota is no exception.

The era of reliability has gone down the same drain as fixing a tear in your jeans. (How many people still own thread and needles?) We'll never see it again IMO.

I think the perceived prestige is what the 200 was lacking, at least with regards to the general population. Those that know understood, but how many times have you had someone compliment your 200 by calling it a Sequoya or Highlander?

Most folks that spend $90k on a car want their neighbors to know they spent $90k on a car. Most folks that bought new 200 series from the dealer probably DIDN'T want their neighbors to know they bought a $90k vehicle. Or at least knew what they were buying and didn't care whether or not anyone else thought it was a Highlander.

 

[dudemancool1904]

Dude TRD Pro wheels in silver look great!!

 

[MRego]

The new Land Cruiser...isn't a Land Cruiser.

This.

EXACTLY. It is a PRADO! Should be compared with the old GX 450 or even the 5th gen 4Runner. We should all stop buying into Toyota's marketing sales pitch that (mis)uses the name Land Cruiser.

 

[Heckraiser]

What does a 200 have in common with a BJ20 or an FJ40? Number of doors? Nope. Number of cylinders? Nope. Wheelbase? Nope. Solid axles? Nope. Even remotely the same scale or size or weight? Nope. One could even argue that the LC250's 4 cyl is more in keeping with tradition than a V8.

Toyota owns trademark. The word is theirs. Any vehicle they choose to call a Land Cruiser is a Land Cruiser. The 200 is such a departure from the Land Cruiser's roots, that calling the new LC250 "not a land cruiser" just seems silly.

 

[Pighead]

People have been bemoaning the Last of this or that just about every model introduction. I gave up on new LandCruisers when they lost the straight six and solid front axles.

 

[TeCKis300]

What does a 200 have in common with a BJ20 or an FJ40? Number of doors? Nope. Number of cylinders? Nope. Wheelbase? Nope. Solid axles? Nope. Even remotely the same scale or size or weight? Nope. One could even argue that the LC250's 4 cyl is more in keeping with tradition than a V8.

Toyota owns trademark. The word is theirs. Any vehicle they choose to call a Land Cruiser is a Land Cruiser. The 200 is such a departure from the Land Cruiser's roots, that calling the new LC250 "not a land cruiser" just seems silly.

Well said and I buy into this 100%. I think there are two different points and each has merit without dismissing the other, depending on which lens we're looking through.

To your point, the LC250 is absolutely in the spirit of a Land Cruiser and may trace closer to some of the original heritage. I don't know how the BJ20 or FJ40 stood against their competitive sets at the time.

To the other points, the LC250 does not live in isolation and in the context of the larger Land Cruiser lineage and lineup, it is not a full fat full featured wagon that the 300-series is. I think we all win with more choice?

 

[Nothinghead]

What does a 200 have in common with a BJ20 or an FJ40? Number of doors? Nope. Number of cylinders? Nope. Wheelbase? Nope. Solid axles? Nope. Even remotely the same scale or size or weight? Nope. One could even argue that the LC250's 4 cyl is more in keeping with tradition than a V8.

Toyota owns trademark. The word is theirs. Any vehicle they choose to call a Land Cruiser is a Land Cruiser. The 200 is such a departure from the Land Cruiser's roots, that calling the new LC250 "not a land cruiser" just seems silly.

I completely agree with you. This bemoaning the labeling of the 250 series is so tiresome. Akio Toyoda could take a dump and if he wants to call it a Land Cruiser and it would be a Land Cruiser (number 2 series).

 

[ryanCA]

this is MMMMURRICA!!

we need the full fat!!!

We need 305s, 5 inch lift, ladders, carplay, body lift, triple rear spare bumpers built by instagram hicks for $5k to put my red shiny jerry can on it, and roof racks and snorkels!!!

Cuz we da best in the world!!!

leave the narrow body for others




***oops wrong thread****

I will go back to my Philz Coffee and my Avacado Sandwich on my tailgate - party at a $10,000/ticket Taylor Swift concert

 

[TeCKis300]

this is MMMMURRICA!!

we need the full fat!!!

We need 305s, 5 inch lift, ladders, carplay, body lift, triple rear spare bumpers built by instagram hicks for $5k to put my red shiny jerry can on it, and roof racks and snorkels!!!

Cuz we da best in the world!!!

leave the narrow body for others




***oops wrong thread****

I will go back to my Philz Coffee and my Avacado Sandwich on my tailgate - party at a $10,000/ticket Taylor Swift concert

Not wrong, LOL.

 

[MRego]

What does a 200 have in common with a BJ20 or an FJ40? Number of doors? Nope. Number of cylinders? Nope. Wheelbase? Nope. Solid axles? Nope. Even remotely the same scale or size or weight? Nope. One could even argue that the LC250's 4 cyl is more in keeping with tradition than a V8.

Toyota owns trademark. The word is theirs. Any vehicle they choose to call a Land Cruiser is a Land Cruiser. The 200 is such a departure from the Land Cruiser's roots, that calling the new LC250 "not a land cruiser" just seems silly.

You are comparing ancient platforms with modern ones.

Yes, the LC has been evolving since the inception from a rural machine to a luxury off-roader. Started with the 80 and then, 100, 200, 300... In between Toyota also included "light duty" versions of it using the Prado nameplate combined with LC. They have not changed this anywhere else in the World, (where consumers can get the 300) only here in the US.

Out of the US, they still use the name Prado for the 250, so why not do the same here? Marketing of course. Toyota wanted to benefit from the name without delivering the actual product they do elsewhere. Brilliant. Are they wrong? Is it illegal? Obviously not. Yes, they own the TM. They can use it as it pleases them. It should be up to us consumers to refuse buying into their fantasy.

I know I am dreaming and the percentage of consumers that actually knows what a Land Cruiser is, is tiny and small. Most soccer mommies will just see the boxy, tall new SUV - kinda of a "better Land Rover" that won't break as often - and will buy it. What gets to me is the journalists and youtubers that know better applauding Toyota and hailing this PRADO as the "new Land Cruiser" (US-only). Well, they wanted to be invited to the launch party in the LC museum, right?

BTW, the graphic above is perfect. Just call apples apples and oranges oranges.

---End rant ---

 

[Heckraiser]

Technically the words "Land Cruiser" are featured on every light duty "Prado" going back to the 70 series wagons outside of the US. 70, 90, 120, 150, elsewhere in the world are still Land Cruiser Prados. Just because it's a Prado, doesn't make it "not a Land Cruiser." And why would Toyota introduce a completely unfamiliar name to the US market when they already have an appropriate name that slots right into their lineup between the 4Runner and the LX600?

 

[ryanCA]

Technically the words "Land Cruiser" are featured on every light duty "Prado" going back to the 70 series wagons outside of the US. 70, 90, 120, 150, elsewhere in the world are still Land Cruiser Prados. Just because it's a Prado, doesn't make it "not a Land Cruiser." And why would Toyota introduce a completely unfamiliar name to the US market when they already have an appropriate name that slots right into their lineup between the 4Runner and the LX600?

People like YOU are the problem!!!!


We do not care about outside the US.



USA
USA
USA
USA

 

[MRego]

Technically the words "Land Cruiser" are featured on every light duty "Prado" going back to the 70 series wagons outside of the US. 70, 90, 120, 150, elsewhere in the world are still Land Cruiser Prados.

True. So just use the name and do not play word games with us calling it the "new land cruiser". Come on man. It is insulting at best.

slots right into their lineup between the 4Runner and the LX600

Well, that is the other problem. I am not sure the Prado slots above the 4Runner. In fact, IMO, it will cannibalize the new 4runner (and vice-versa). The happier folks I see trading in for the new Prado are 5th gen 4runner owners (there is a thread dedicated to that in the LC250 Forum). Those guys (for the most part/not all of them) are in awe of trading the 5th gen for the Prado, since it is such a leap forward in terms of tech and modern. Pretty much the opposite of the 200 owners who were left with no choice to trade up. They can only trade down or go to the LX600 (which is another whole can of worms engine-wise).