200 Alternator MTBF?

[OGBeno]

While your positions are overall mostly true, none of the above pertains to a Toyota alternator.

I’m asking specifically about Toyota alternators.

Not Daniel Stern’s interpretation of the American aftermarket or reman supply chain; not counterfeit parts sold on eBay/Amazon/China-s***-parts.com, etc.

Please show the facts that Toyota vis-a-vis Denso do this as well.

And I’m not saying this to delete your post. Your posts are what they are. We are having a conversation.

Thanks.

 

[Cruisin911]

I think we need to clarify some terms here. OE supplier sold at an auto parts store is still aftermarket, not OEM.

As for anecdotes I’ve installed OE supplier rebuilt alternators in probably a half dozen vehicles and not once had a problem. These were mostly from parts stores.

Completely agree. I could have been clearer in my first post on this. OE supplier at an auto parts store is still aftermarket. Additionally, do not assume that just because you are purchasing at a dealer that your part is OEM ORIGINAL, specifically alternators.

 

[Zjohnsonua]

To the OP's question, I'd say pull the alternator while you're in there and put a set of brushes in it. They're cheap, easy to replace (and most likely part to fail), and allow you to put eyes on the other parts inside the unit.

Different part family, but same topic... last week I called a Toyota dealer to get a quote on a steering rack and they gave me two options: new or re-man. I'd love to know if they're peddling parts store reman product, or if Toyota's processes include reman processes. I'll make sure and talk to the parts manager when I go by to see what's happening in that specific location.

 

[Cruisin911]

While your positions are overall mostly true, none of the above pertains to a Toyota alternator.

I’m asking specifically about Toyota alternators.

Not Daniel Stern’s interpretation of the American aftermarket or reman supply chain; not counterfeit parts sold on eBay/Amazon/China-s***-parts.com, etc.

Please show the facts that Toyota vis-a-vis Denso do this as well.

And I’m not saying this to delete your post. Your posts are what they are. We are having a conversation.

Thanks.

Fair point. That link was provided to try and add context.

Toyota does not make their own alternators. Denso does. Denso also sells reman units. Link below.

Shop – Newparts.com

Genuine, OEM & Branded Aftermarket Parts at the best prices. Includes a 2-year warranty and easy returns. Shop Today!

www.newparts.com

I think there is a lot of consumer confusion in OE vs OEM and Remanufactured vs Rebuilt. Even this link above is called "newparts.com" selling remanufactured units, for Toyotas.

Denso, just like Bosch, AC Delco, Mastercraft, all rebuild their alternators. Like I said, the core of the unit doesn't wear out, its the parts mentioned above.

I just don't want people to think that if they go to the parts desk at the dealership and buy an alternator that its the exact same unit, built the exact same standards, and guaranteed as the original one was. Denso parts are shipped all across the country and supply for more than just Toyota. Some people think that if you go to the parts desk and get an alternator, that someone in Japan is pulling it off the production floor, putting it in a box, and shipping it to your dealership. That isn't reality. Its likely coming from the same Denso distributor that you can get parts from through nearly any auto parts distributor.

Even Toyota corporate website below is selling remanufactured alternators.....

Toyota Corolla Alternator. NIPPONDENSO, DELCO, TENESSEE - 270601511084 - Genuine Toyota Part

Alternator. NIPPONDENSO, DELCO, TENESSEE. Toyota Corolla. Genuine Toyota Part - 270601511084 (27060-15110-84, 2706002040, 2706002070, 2706015110)

parts.toyota.com

Fun fact, parts.toyota.com also sells everything you need to rebuild your OEM alternator.

ALTERNATOR. 2011 Toyota | Toyota Parts Center Online

2011 Toyota ALTERNATOR

parts.toyota.com

 

[Zjohnsonua]

^^^ that.

And to make things even more convoluted, vendors don't hold the same quality standards for the same product. Think 1st, 2nd, 3rd quality and so on. I know first hand of at least two Tier 1 OE vendors that have multiple quality control protocols for the same products. The determining factor of which part gets which protocol is who is getting the product and how much they're paying for it.

Then again, as persnickety as Toyota is with details, I can't see them accepting the same quality part from Denso that Chrysler took.

 

[OGBeno]

Getting warmer....

Highly recommend Klier and Rubenstein’s book about “where did my alternator come from?”....

 

[OGBeno]

Chapter 6 of Iyer, Seshadri, and Vasher’s in-depth book will add some valuable supply chain understanding as well...

 

[Cruisin911]

Chapter 6 of Iyer, Seshadri, and Vasher’s in-depth book will add some valuable supply chain understanding as well...

View attachment 2524334

This makes sense for originally supplied parts at time of assembly at the factory by Tier 1 suppliers. What about ordering replacement parts in North America for our 200's made in Japan? Maybe I should just buy the book.......

 

[bloc]

My understanding was the devil is in the details. Remanufactured alternators will be listed as such if you look closely. A -84 suffix means a toyota alternator is remanufactured.. avoid that and it will be a new toyota part built to the same standard as what came on the truck.

 

[OGBeno]

My understanding was the devil is in the details. Remanufactured alternators will be listed as such if you look closely. A -84 suffix means a toyota alternator is remanufactured.. avoid that and it will be a new toyota part built to the same standard as what came on the truck.

This is an incorrect understanding of what the -84 means in terms of remanufacturing.

 

[bloc]

This is an incorrect understanding of what the -84 means in terms of remanufacturing.

What does it mean then?

 

[Cruisin911]

Chapter 6 of Iyer, Seshadri, and Vasher’s in-depth book will add some valuable supply chain understanding as well...

While the book referenced above provides great context for supplier interaction and internal management of as delivered parts in a lean manufacturing/Just In Time delivery scenario at the Toyota factory as part of initial vehicle assembly, it does nothing to address the supply chain challenges for parts after in-service delivery dates. Chapter 6 and 7 show a lot of insight as to how Toyota works with Tier 1 all the way through Tier 4 suppliers but again, falls short on post delivery supply chain quality control whatsoever.

I still stand by my original point as to the vast variability in quality of parts even labeled as OE and OEM "quality" available at both the local parts store and the dealership. If any one else is interested, the book above by Iyer, Seshadri, and Vasher in its entirety can be found here: http://103.5.132.213:8080/jspui/bit...Toyota's Renowned System ( PDFDrive.com ).pdf

Inside the Toyota Factory, as evidenced in the reference above, Toyota has strict quality control and excellent supplier relationships. To the FACTORY, they can tightly control the delivery, demand, and chain of custody for said parts on newly manufactured vehicles. Post delivery, Toyota cannot and should not be responsible for the entire global supply chain that wants to sell you an alternator at the cheapest possible price point.

 

[bloc]

Post delivery, Toyota cannot and should not be responsible for the entire global supply chain that wants to sell you an alternator at the cheapest possible price point.

If it is being bought at a toyota parts counter my expectation is that it lives to the same standard, if not labeled as remanufactured.

 

[Moby]

If it is being bought at a toyota parts counter my expectation is that it lives to the same standard, if not labeled as remanufactured.

Agreed. We should separate out something bought at a parts store versus something bought at the dealership's parts counter in a Toyota box. I really don't care much about what comes out of Shuck's Auto. Except in an emergency I'm not installing an alt, or anything else save oil and wiper fluid, from an auto chain. I'm only concerned about whether a non reman part I buy over the counter at a Toyota dealership meets the quality standards of a part that was originally part of my truck.

 

[kcjaz]

There are lots of counterfeit parts and loose terminology out there that certainly make it hard to know for sure what you are getting. Buying on-line makes this worse. When it comes to things like car parts that can be remanufactured or rebuilt with OEM or non-OEM components, it is very difficult for most people to know what they are really getting even when they hold it in their hands. Sure you can disassemble the new alternator you have purchased on-line and if you know what you are looking for, figure out if you got what you thought you had purchased, but in the end, most people have to rely on trusting the seller. Dealing with reputable companies is important. If I'm buying parts from a general parts store based on make and model, I understand that I'm not likely to get OEM. If I'm buying parts at a Toyota parts store or a dealer that specifically states they are selling me new OEM parts, I expect that the parts are really OEM.

I've been buying parts recently online from EB Toyota Parts. So far, I have been very happy. I have no reason to suspect that they are covertly ripping me off and selling me reman'd or non-OEM parts when they specifically state they are new and OEM. Every part I look up on their site with a Toyota part number has this statement:

I can't tell you for sure that EB Toyota Parts is legit but based on my experience so far, I believe that they are. When I bought a side mirror retract motor assembly from them, it was back ordered and had to come from Japan. If I buy a new alternator from them, that has the Toyota part number, I'm pretty sure, and have an expectation, it will be the same quality as current model year OEM alternators installed in the factory.

 

[kcjaz]

WARNING: Digging deeper into the Rabbit Hole of new alternators vs original OEM units that came with the vehicle. So I got my new alternator from EB Toyota Parts today. It has a Toyota/Denso nameplate that is identical to the original alternator. Physically, the new alternator is not exactly the same. There is a difference in the cooling finning of the rectifier. The new one has fewer fins. The original rectifier seems to be a cast part and the new one looks more like its been stamped out of a sheet though it is still thick. The diodes have different numbers. I can't really tell of the voltage regulators and brushes are the same Denso part but the numbers similar (GS2M 3040 vs GS2M 3041). There are some other numbers on them that are different. Googling didn't yield much though it looks like 3040 is a Denso number.

So definitely not exactly the same. Looks like they may have cheapened the rectifier. Will that matter? I don't know. The original is from a 2013 truck. I'd expect some changes in 7 years from Denso. It would be interesting to see what is in a 2021 200. For grins, I'm going to take the old one and see what it will cost to have it rebuilt with Denso parts, if that is even possible.

 

[kcjaz]

Here’s closeups of the diodes (round, watch battery looking things) to show the numbers.