1st oil drain in 30 years!

[vinny tetravino]

Isnt that oil being circulated though the engine?

 

[lostmarbles]

Isnt that oil being circulated though the engine?

Hi Vinny

Inline injection pumps like these are lubricated by the engine's pressurised lubrication system ..... So in that respect - the answer is "Yes".

But where they have a pneumatic governor, some oil leaks through the "rack seal" over time and accumulates on the pump-side of the leather diaphragm. And since engine oil damages leather, Toyota installed a drain plug there to enable this leaked-oil to be periodically drained.

Actually your question makes me recall a dilemna I had when I bought my cruiser back in 1981. .... The owners manual mistakenly lists "changing the IP oil" as part of periodic maintenance (and I am a stickler for proper maintenance). I recall going to the trouble of asking local Toyota mechanics how to accomplish this task ... But of course they just smiled and offered no help because assisting someone who does his own repairs/maintenance is/was "against their best interests". It actually took me quite some time to conclude that this item in the maintenance schedule was nonsense .

 

[Henry James the 47th]

Can someone explain why the injection pump governor is different between the auto-trans and manual trans models?

My truck has an engine out of an HJ60 auto, which I have converted to connect to a manual transmission, keeping the original auto injection pump. No EDIC, no diaphragm to wear out - why isn't this the standard issue pump? What advantage is there to having the diaphragm/EDIC set up over the simplicity of the mechanical governor and engine shut-off with just one vacuum switch?

 

[lostmarbles]

Can someone explain why the injection pump governor is different between the auto-trans and manual trans models?

My truck has an engine out of an HJ60 auto, which I have converted to connect to a manual transmission, keeping the original auto injection pump. No EDIC, no diaphragm to wear out - why isn't this the standard issue pump? What advantage is there to having the diaphragm/EDIC set up over the simplicity of the mechanical governor and engine shut-off with just one vacuum switch?

Interesting question Chris. (It is one I was asking myself too.)

Here's my theory/guess:

I suspect the mechanical governor is indeed an improvement over the pneumatic one and can be used anywhere regardless of whether the transmission is auto or manual. (And your HJ47 has really proven this.)

And I think iconic cruisers like the BJ42 missed out on it simply because it was developed after their production had ceased?

And then .... because Toyota had already proven themselves in the reliability stakes .... and they were facing fierce competition ... and their main market had clearly become private-recreational (rather than military or mining for example) .... they tended to opt for cheaper-to-produce rotary pumps for most models thereafter. Meaning that in-line IPs with mechanical governors never got widely used on landcruisers.

Any other ideas out there?



PS. For anyone that's interested, this (underlined in red) is what gave me grief from my Owners Manual back in the early eighties. (Probably my first introduction to errors in Toyota publications.)



From that line in the maintenance shedule I was sure that you had to change IP oil separately from changing your engine oil.

 

[darthvincor]

True, every 6 months. And the engine oil is every 3 months, according to the manual. Strange how that item ended up in there.

And every 6 months for the diaphragm too, that's quite some hefty schedule.

 

[Garry]

Wow, learned something new again.

Thanks Lowenbrau and Tom!

I never knew about that I've owned my HJ60 for almost 11 years now and I've never un-wound that bung And I doubt if the previous owner did either. Could be interesting to see how much oil is trapped in there. fellas.

 

[Michael Hanson]

I doubt many in the cruiser world have drained it or even known about the drain. MIke

 

[lowenbrau]

Just a clarification on the reason for draining the oil. If there is too much accumulated oil in the bottom of the diaphragm it really does affect performance. You'll see symptoms like variable idle speed and what appears to be blue smoke on descents and deceleration. (milder versions of the same symptoms you have when the diaphragm fails)

I'm not sure that the non diaphragm system is superior at all. I think the diaphragm meters the fuel/air much better. The auto 2H is always smokier than the manual version. I think Toyota dropped the diaphragm when they mated the A440 to the 2H because the 2H needed a transmission kickdown cable directly connected to the fuel rail and that wasn't practical if the fuel rail wasn't connected to the driver's foot.

Smoke pretty much always means high EGTs.

I love my 13BT with a direct fuel rail connection to my foot but it produces way more smoke than any well tuned 3B I ever had did. I once failed a smog test with a BJ60 because they couldn't measure any opacity. They sent me off for an inspection of the exhaust at my expense because they couldn't believe an old diesel could be so clean burning.

 

[lostmarbles]

.......
I'm not sure that the non diaphragm system is superior at all. I think the diaphragm meters the fuel/air much better. The auto 2H is always smokier................. I think Toyota dropped the diaphragm when they mated the A440 to the 2H because the 2H needed a transmission kickdown cable directly connected to the fuel rail and that wasn't practical if the fuel rail wasn't connected to the driver's foot.
................

Ahh. That makes sense to me. I had a feeling there had to be a connection with the transmission.

 

[Henry James the 47th]

Yes, mine is a little smokier - I put that down to the fact that the injector pump for the auto trans connected engines puts out more fuel at each rack setting, especially at start-up.

Would this not be a good candidate for a turbo, given that people who fit turbo's usually end up turning the fuel up a little?

 

[lowenbrau]

Yes, mine is a little smokier - I put that down to the fact that the injector pump for the auto trans connected engines puts out more fuel at each rack setting, especially at start-up.

Would this not be a good candidate for a turbo, given that people who fit turbo's usually end up turning the fuel up a little?

Yes and no. The auto version is a pain to adjust fuel on. It would be good once you got it dialed in but it might take a while to get it there. I had an HJ60 auto for a few years and while I could live with the normally aspirated power I started a turbo project just to get rid of the smoke. I never did finish that project.

 

[eleblanc]

I was completely unaware that this plug on my BJ40s injector pump was there for draining engine oil that leaks through internal seals into the diaphragm enclosure (into the governor housing).

That is because you never replaced the diaphragm using your hand only, because you would have dropped the nut down there a few time and known about the oil in there!

 

[Estancio]

Why not install IP drain fitting and hose

On my 1987 BJ70 with 3B, the injector pump does not have a drain plug that must be periodically opened. Instead, Toyota installed a hose fitting and ran a very small drainage hose, complete with hose bracket. Why not just add this and forget about when to drain the excess oil from the IP?

 

[Moe R]

On my 1987 BJ70 with 3B, the injector pump does not have a drain plug that must be periodically opened. Instead, Toyota installed a hose fitting and ran a very small drainage hose, complete with hose bracket. Why not just add this and forget about when to drain the excess oil from the IP?

Nice mod. where does it drain to?

 

[Estancio]

FYI, not my modification - came new from factory just exactly like this.
But figure anyone could do this easily.

Hose is open ended. Just drips to ground.
I have never noticed any drips, since so little oil accumulates.

 

[lostmarbles]

FYI, not my modification - came new from factory just exactly like this.
But figure anyone could do this easily.

Hose is open ended. Just drips to ground.
I have never noticed any drips, since so little oil accumulates.

Strange!

I would have expected that hose to suck in air (and dirt) whenever your engine's running.

(Not a big flow .... But enough to suck in fine dust ... I'd have thought.)

So I prefer the plug idea.

 

[Estancio]

This thread got me curious, so a few days ago I removed it to inspect. Thought there might be a one-way valve in the fitting, to let oil out and nothing inside. But there was not. All open. Then I looked for water or dirt entering up the hose. No sign of anything but black diesel oil in th hose. The IP is going strong after 406,000 km so I'm not complaining. Like you, I'll just leave the IP as Toyota made it, mine being different from yours.

 

[AJAEbj42]

81 BJ42 Fuel System Maintenance Page

Here is the maintenance page from my CDN spec 1981 BJ42. Just FYI. Very interesting thread by the way!

 

[amaurer]

Strange!

I would have expected that hose to suck in air (and dirt) whenever your engine's running.

(Not a big flow .... But enough to suck in fine dust ... I'd have thought.)

So I prefer the plug idea.

Add a turbo and that would vent the "back" side of the diaphragm inappropriately, as well.

 

[TLC Norway]

Cool, now I gotta check my oil accumulation there too...
What do you mean when you add a turbo, you need to check what other side?
Interesting thread!

Sent from my GT-I9000 using IH8MUD app.