1kz-te engine code 14-timing control/timing angle (only when going uphill in second gear) (1 Viewer)

[badman9]

Hi everyone,
2000 Hilux Surf 1kz-te, automatic.

I recently completed a quite extensive rebuild of my engine (new sleeves, bearings, rings, head gasket, new head, new valve guides, new injector nozzles, changed all seals etc). At first, I was getting some really bad misfiring, but adjusting the diesel pump seems to have sorted that out.
The vehicle finally seems to be running well (about 1000km and one oil change done since the rebuild) .
The engine definitely feels much more powerful than before the rebuild, and the boost builds up MUCH quicker than before, but I am still having one strange problem throwing a temporary check engine lights (and temporary power cut) but only in very specific circumstances.

When I'm driving up any medium to long uphill section that requires 2nd gear (not so steep to remain in 1st without revving the socks off), somewhere during the uphill i'll get a check engine light come up and the power cuts to about half. Once i back off the accelerator or drop into 1st gear, it goes away and the vehicle drives normally. When I pull the code using the flashing lights technique, I get code 14 (timing control system malfunction (or possibly crank angle 7 degrees or more out of spec)). I've had trouble with this code before about 4 years ago, and it required a new timing control valve, but in that case, it wouldn't necessarily throw a CEL and there was knocking/major timing issues. Other than that very specific scenario going uphill, I can't seem to replicate this issue. I have gotten it about 4 times so far, all of which were going up a medium-long hill where the roads were rough so you couldn't go very very quickly, perfect 2nd gear type of speed. It doesn't pop up any other time, and the vehicle seems to be running fine otherwise.
Note that it doesn't happen on slower 1st gear uphills, because I've had to do some of those steep hills in 1st, and had no CEL come up.
I told my diesel pump/injector guys about it last time I was at their shop, and they adjusted the fuelling on the pump itself, which cut my power a little bit (but i'm running with almost no smoke out the back, i was overfuelling before), but the CEL still comes back in the same exact scenario.

I'm attaching a youtube clip below of the exact scenario where it happens to see if you guys can make any suggestions on what to check/adjust to solve this.
Youtube Video of Check Engine Light

Thanks everyone

 

[badman9]

Bump for help goodly people?

 

[badman9]

Trying again for help.

thanks

 

[badman9]

Not sure why my life is so confusing, but shortly after my last post the problem just seems to have gone away and not come back. Very odd gremlin

 

[KiwiBogan]

I know this is an old post but thought I'd share some info I've been learning/trying to understand that might be useful to future readers.

Theirs a couple of schools of thought on this and it gets complicated by the fact there around about 3-4 different injector pumps used on this engine (I have two different ones in my shed. The fully electronic and semi electronic injector pumps that I have, have a timing mark on the side of them that you line up with a metal edge/line on the engine mounting bracket. From here, some say the ECU does the final tune correction however theirs a YouTube video or two kicking around showing an engineer tuning one of the Bosch VE pumps on a 1HZ motor where he clocks the pump by a couple of degrees to complete the timing. Now I actually think about that, the 1HZ motor is not ECU controlled so maybe that's why it needs the pump clocked where the 1KZ-TE engine has the final adjustments completed by the ECU so doesn't? It's really hard to find indepth info about this as no one seems to know or be talking about it. I feel like my fully electronic pump is a bit too retarded and needs advancing but not sure how I can do it short of spending $2100 on a Unichip. My pump also doesn't support the resistor mod as it's a new pump with the ROM connector instead of the two resistors.

But to address why your timing may have come right and further support the ECU auto timing theory, I've noticed the ECU learns over time and makes adjustments based on sensor readings. When say for example I wind my turbo boost up, it initially feels a bit better but after a bit of driving or the next time you go for a drive, it's 100% better! Makes it frustrating when you're making tweaks and mods because you don't get the instant feedback of what you've changed... Anyways, interesting topic

 

[MIKADO Z]

I know this is an old post but thought I'd share some info I've been learning/trying to understand that might be useful to future readers.

Theirs a couple of schools of thought on this and it gets complicated by the fact there around about 3-4 different injector pumps used on this engine (I have two different ones in my shed. The fully electronic and semi electronic injector pumps that I have, have a timing mark on the side of them that you line up with a metal edge/line on the engine mounting bracket. From here, some say the ECU does the final tune correction however theirs a YouTube video or two kicking around showing an engineer tuning one of the Bosch VE pumps on a 1HZ motor where he clocks the pump by a couple of degrees to complete the timing. Now I actually think about that, the 1HZ motor is not ECU controlled so maybe that's why it needs the pump clocked where the 1KZ-TE engine has the final adjustments completed by the ECU so doesn't? It's really hard to find indepth info about this as no one seems to know or be talking about it. I feel like my fully electronic pump is a bit too retarded and needs advancing but not sure how I can do it short of spending $2100 on a Unichip. My pump also doesn't support the resistor mod as it's a new pump with the ROM connector instead of the two resistors.

But to address why your timing may have come right and further support the ECU auto timing theory, I've noticed the ECU learns over time and makes adjustments based on sensor readings. When say for example I wind my turbo boost up, it initially feels a bit better but after a bit of driving or the next time you go for a drive, it's 100% better! Makes it frustrating when you're making tweaks and mods because you don't get the instant feedback of what you've changed... Anyways, interesting topic

I am having the same issues with a 1995 kzj78te Prado.Mine is an automatic and the check engine light code is 14 and my light stays constant - if I Rev the engine 3 times light goes off and I have normal power 1st,2nd and sometimes hit 3rd before the light comes on and power loss and very smoky if going up any incline
Eliminated egr,timing belt kit installed,ecu rebuilt - been like this since i bought it and cant figure out what else to check - oh and brand new injectors oem,glow plugs on order and the 2 vacuum solenoids on the back of the manifold

 

[KiwiBogan]

I am having the same issues with a 1995 kzj78te Prado.Mine is an automatic and the check engine light code is 14 and my light stays constant - if I Rev the engine 3 times light goes off and I have normal power 1st,2nd and sometimes hit 3rd before the light comes on and power loss and very smoky if going up any incline
Eliminated egr,timing belt kit installed,ecu rebuilt - been like this since i bought it and cant figure out what else to check - oh and brand new injectors oem,glow plugs on order and the 2 vacuum solenoids on the back of the manifold

Regarding the Code 14, Have a look at the wiring and connector that plugs into your timing control valve underneath the injector pump. (You can access it best through the passenger wheel arch). Use a torch and look for damage to the wire going to the plug. Maybe you've got a damaged wire?

The smoke while accelerating uphill sounds like a different issue though. What colour is the smoke?

 

[MIKADO Z]

Regarding the Code 14, Have a look at the wiring and connector that plugs into your timing control valve underneath the injector pump. (You can access it best through the passenger wheel arch). Use a torch and look for damage to the wire going to the plug. Maybe you've got a damaged wire?

The smoke while accelerating uphill sounds like a different issue though. What colour is the smoke?

The smoke happens when the check engine light comes on - its heavy greay smoke and its during the power loss.Befpre the CEL comes back on i have power and no smoke - its intermittent

 

[KiwiBogan]

The smoke happens when the check engine light comes on - its heavy greay smoke and its during the power loss.Befpre the CEL comes back on i have power and no smoke - its intermittent

Just referring back to the diagnostic chart, when did you last change your fuel filter? Blocked FF can cause that DTC code. As can a knackered fuel pump or ECU. And as mentioned the ECU getting the wrong messages from the TCV.

The cheapest thing to do would be check that wire like I mentioned. I did a write up here about how to find those wires and repair them if broken though my symptoms were slightly different. I got a knocking sound when the TCV wires were slightly broken/frayed.

Fuel filters the next cheapest thing to replace. They're only $20 each so I would just do that out of due process.

Worst case, I could be an internal pressure problem in your fuel pump. These pumps are tough as old nails so I doubt it's that but who knows!

I would recommend everyone with this engine get a Bluetooth OBD2 reader and app "ELMscan Toyota". This gives you much more information to work with when diagnosing these issues.

Lettuce know how you get on!

 

[MIKADO Z]

Just referring back to the diagnostic chart, when did you last change your fuel filter? Blocked FF can cause that DTC code. As can a knackered fuel pump or ECU. And as mentioned the ECU getting the wrong messages from the TCV.

The cheapest thing to do would be check that wire like I mentioned. I did a write up here about how to find those wires and repair them if broken though my symptoms were slightly different. I got a knocking sound when the TCV wires were slightly broken/frayed.

Fuel filters the next cheapest thing to replace. They're only $20 each so I would just do that out of due process.

Worst case, I could be an internal pressure problem in your fuel pump. These pumps are tough as old nails so I doubt it's that but who knows!

I would recommend everyone with this engine get a Bluetooth OBD2 reader and app "ELMscan Toyota". This gives you much more information to work with when diagnosing these issues.

Lettuce know how you get on!

Thisnis a japanese import 1995 kzj78 series turbo diesel.It has a data port NO odb2 - so the reder will do me no good.Yes it has a new fuel filter, i had the ecu rebuilt ,timing belt,water pump ,and tnsioners done - egr deleted - egt guage installed - new oem fuel injectors and on order 2 of the vsv's that bolt on the back of the intake.Nothing has changed the code 14 and now after the egr delete I am getting a code 24 also.As I said before - when taking off the check engine light sometimes off she has power and no smoke and usuall after the trans is in 2nd or 3rd the check engine light goes on and lose half the power ,no acceleration up hills and lots of smoke going up inclines or hills and even on straight aways when the lights on - i will check these wires - perhaps the spill valve?i am at a loss

 

[KiwiBogan]

Thisnis a japanese import 1995 kzj78 series turbo diesel.It has a data port NO odb2 - so the reder will do me no good.Yes it has a new fuel filter, i had the ecu rebuilt ,timing belt,water pump ,and tnsioners done - egr deleted - egt guage installed - new oem fuel injectors and on order 2 of the vsv's that bolt on the back of the intake.Nothing has changed the code 14 and now after the egr delete I am getting a code 24 also.As I said before - when taking off the check engine light sometimes off she has power and no smoke and usuall after the trans is in 2nd or 3rd the check engine light goes on and lose half the power ,no acceleration up hills and lots of smoke going up inclines or hills and even on straight aways when the lights on - i will check these wires - perhaps the spill valve?i am at a loss,

 

[KiwiBogan]

my experience with the spill valve is you'll have cold start issues when it plays up, but will work fine when driving. I've never heard of or experienced it behaving as you say.

The only time I've experienced power loss was when a wire to my TPS had broken.

How many KMs on your injector pump? And what condition is your turbo in? You don't have a turbo leak or anything like that messing with your AF ratios? (Just spit balling here)

 

[MIKADO Z]

The prado had 285,000 kilometers and I got it from an importer here in the states with no history - so not sure

 

[KiwiBogan]

The prado had 285,000 kilometers and I got it from an importer here in the states with no history - so not sure

Have you cleaned the intake manifold since the EGR delete? If that's coked up with soot, that will certainly cause a loss of power and other dramas! You might be able to see down the throttle body but best to remove the throttle body altogether and have a squizz.

 

[MIKADO Z]

So when i first start her the check engine light stays off til it warms up after a minute .If I rev the engine 3 times the light will go off for maybe 30 second s - then it comes back on.I can hear the turbo spool up - i have power til the rpms hit 2000 - 2200 rpms then then light comes on and half the power .So before the light comes back on whenni take off from a stop - i get to about 2200 rpm's and the light comes on and no power to get to much beyond thatbif i am on a flat road - she will creep up to 55mph or even 65 mph

 

[MIKADO Z]

Have you cleaned the intake manifold since the EGR delete? If that's coked up with soot, that will certainly cause a loss of power and other dramas! You might be able to see down the throttle body but best to remove the throttle body altogether and have a squizz.

Both intakes soaked in diesel for 15 hours and scrubbed -

 

[MIKADO Z]

Have you cleaned the intake manifold since the EGR delete? If that's coked up with soot, that will certainly cause a loss of power and other dramas! You might be able to see down the throttle body but best to remove the throttle body altogether and have a squizz.

Replaced map sensor and that small filter as well

 

[KiwiBogan]

So when i first start her the check engine light stays off til it warms up after a minute .If I rev the engine 3 times the light will go off for maybe 30 second s - then it comes back on.I can hear the turbo spool up - i have power til the rpms hit 2000 - 2200 rpms then then light comes on and half the power .So before the light comes back on whenni take off from a stop - i get to about 2200 rpm's and the light comes on and no power to get to much beyond thatbif i am on a flat road - she will creep up to 55mph or even 65 mph

That sounds like limp mode kicking in when the engine detects an irregular reading from one of its sensors, it reduces the fuelling to reduce risk of damage to the engine. Check the intake manifold is not blocked and report back.

But the Error 14 points to the Timing Control System. It doesn't sound like that to me though...

 

[MIKADO Z]

That sounds like limp mode kicking in when the engine detects an irregular reading from one of its sensors, it reduces the fuelling to reduce risk of damage to the engine. Check the intake manifold is not blocked and report back.

But the Error 14 points to the Timing Control System. It doesn't sound like that to me though...

I did a thorough soaking and scrub of both intakes - i carefully scouped out what i could from the intake ports also using a shop vac to keep any bits f4om falling into the cylinders -

 

[MIKADO Z]

That sounds like limp mode kicking in when the engine detects an irregular reading from one of its sensors, it reduces the fuelling to reduce risk of damage to the engine. Check the intake manifold is not blocked and report back.

But the Error 14 points to the Timing Control System. It doesn't sound like that to me though...

What sensors are you refering too?This isn1995 japan - not alot of sensors at all on this machine