1HDT HDJ81 Misfire (1 Viewer)

[ubguessin]

Hello,

I recently purchased a 93 HDJ81 with a 1HDT about 150k Miles. After making the drive home 3k+ miles home to 4500' elevation home base the cruiser started to really smoke. I would be climbing hills and the truck would have Coughs of black smoke out the exhaust with a constant stream of gray smoke covering the hill behind me. I elected to have the injectors rebuilt. The shop I elected to do the work sent the Injectors to a shop in OR. This took 6 weeks to complete. Once installed the truck still ran like poop and had the same problems. Then I elected to have the pump rebuilt as well. The shop sent my injectors and pump in the mail to Canada and subsequemtly the parts were lost in the mail, but finally recovered. In my frustration I told the shop to send to NW fuel systems in Canada to their US based PO box to avoid customs. This all happened without a hiccup. NW Fuel concluded that the first shop to rebuild the injectors did not have to proper equipment to properly set up the Injectors and had to rebuild them again. They also did a complete rebuild of the pump and made sure all injectors and pump were operating within standars to which it all passed.

Once the injectors and pump were installed and set to factory timing specs I was informed that the bolt hole for one of the injectors cracked in half and epoxy was used to fix the problem. Finally the truck was able to be started and the saga continues with the 1HDT still operating the same from when it was first brought to the shop. I have been informed that the problem follows the injector when moved betweeb cylinders.

I am at my wits and and I am sure the shop doing the repair is as well since they have been in possesion of the truck for nearly 5 months.

Has anyone else had the same issues? What was the fix/problem?

I just purchased an endoscope and am going to be checking each piston for cracks. As well I was told that a compression check was going to be performed but I have not been notified what the outcome of the test was.

 

[ppc]

I have been informed that the problem follows the injector when moved between cylinders.

If that above statement is true then the problem is with that specific injector. The fact that the injectors were serviced by a reputable company tells me the shop that you have selected is incompetent and is just telling you a bunch of BS. I would ditch them as fast as possible and find another shop.

 

[ubguessin]

If that above statement is true then the problem is with that specific injector. The fact that the injectors were serviced by a reputable company tells me the shop that you have selected is incompetent and is just telling you a bunch of BS. I would ditch them as fast as possible and find another shop.

So you are saying the shop is duping me? I just dont get where that would get them. They are really the only LC shop in my area that came reccomended. (Overland Cruisers)

 

[mudgudgeon]

I have been informed that the problem follows the injector when moved betweeb cylinders.

If this conclusively follows a single injector there's the smoking gun.

It can't take 5 months to come to that conclusion.

It could also be a red herring

Did the shop that has the cruiser do the injector work?

I would be climbing hills and the truck would have Coughs of black smoke out the exhaust with a constant stream of gray smoke covering the hill behind me.

I can't see a single bad injector causing clouds of smoke. And if they've rebuilt and bench tested injectors within spec, something it's not adding up.

This description above suggests a simpler problem.

Could be as simple as air getting into the fuel lines.
This can be from something as simple as a split rubber line allowing air to be sucked in, or a perished hand primer pump diaphragm.

I had air getting into fuel lines on my HZJ105. it showed up as a miss fire and running rough and life on power while climbing hills or under hard acceleration around 2500rpm +.
It also cause a light grey /white cloud of smoke out the back when ever the misfire occurred.
This first occured when I was in the mountains at altitude similar to you.

I replaced air filter, no change.
Replaced injectors, no change.
Was about to rebuild the injector pump when I figured I had air in the fuel lines.
I did a simple test, and found the problem. Fixed it for less than $100 vs $2000+ fuel pump rebuild



Air getting into the fuel causes issues as it compresses. It mucks up the timing advance in the pump, and won't overcome the spring preload to crack the injectors.
The bad timing means fuel won't be completely burnt which shows up as white smoke. The smoke will smell strongly of unburnt diesel.

 

[ubguessin]

If this conclusively follows a single injector there's the smoking gun.

It can't take 5 months to come to that conclusion.

It could also be a red herring

Did the shop that has the cruiser do the injector work?




I can't see a single bad injector causing clouds of smoke. And if they've rebuilt and bench tested injectors within spec, something it's not adding up.

This description above suggests a simpler problem.

Could be as simple as air getting into the fuel lines.
This can be from something as simple as a split rubber line allowing air to be sucked in, or a perished hand primer pump diaphragm.

I had air getting into fuel lines on my HZJ105. it showed up as a miss fire and running rough and life on power while climbing hills or under hard acceleration around 2500rpm +.
It also cause a light grey /white cloud of smoke out the back when ever the misfire occurred.
This first occured when I was in the mountains at altitude similar to you.

I replaced air filter, no change.
Replaced injectors, no change.
Was about to rebuild the injector pump when I figured I had air in the fuel lines.
I did a simple test, and found the problem. Fixed it for less than $100 vs $2000+ fuel pump rebuild



Air getting into the fuel causes issues as it compresses. It mucks up the timing advance in the pump, and won't overcome the spring preload to crack the injectors.
The bad timing means fuel won't be completely burnt which shows up as white smoke. The smoke will smell strongly of unburnt diesel.

The shop doing the work did not do the injector/pump rebuild.

I'm still waiting to see the results of a compression test. I believe they did send my injectors back to NW Fuel systems in Canada. But still not sure.

 

[otilly]

I have a 1HDT as well and the injectors served; lousy job, still same problem. Went to expert who said was an expert and he said the specs aren't right; an acceptance of 5 percent is OK. So if you have injectors that vary between 95% and 105% you get problems. So had them rebuild again; same problem. He said your injectors are now so very good that the pump can't keep up. OK pump was rebuild as well and injectorlines replaced. Now I have a perfect cruiser which is purring like a cat. All for the cost of 4000 euros!

 

[ubguessin]

I have a 1HDT as well and the injectors served; lousy job, still same problem. Went to expert who said was an expert and he said the specs aren't right; an acceptance of 5 percent is OK. So if you have injectors that vary between 95% and 105% you get problems. So had them rebuild again; same problem. He said your injectors are now so very good that the pump can't keep up. OK pump was rebuild as well and injectorlines replaced. Now I have a perfect cruiser which is purring like a cat. All for the cost of 4000 euros!

Well I am still up s*** creek without a Cruiser! They just installed brand new injectors and are now telling me that the rebuilt injection pump is needing another look over.

 

[ubguessin]

If this conclusively follows a single injector there's the smoking gun.

It can't take 5 months to come to that conclusion.

It could also be a red herring

Did the shop that has the cruiser do the injector work?




I can't see a single bad injector causing clouds of smoke. And if they've rebuilt and bench tested injectors within spec, something it's not adding up.

This description above suggests a simpler problem.

Could be as simple as air getting into the fuel lines.
This can be from something as simple as a split rubber line allowing air to be sucked in, or a perished hand primer pump diaphragm.

I had air getting into fuel lines on my HZJ105. it showed up as a miss fire and running rough and life on power while climbing hills or under hard acceleration around 2500rpm +.
It also cause a light grey /white cloud of smoke out the back when ever the misfire occurred.
This first occured when I was in the mountains at altitude similar to you.

I replaced air filter, no change.
Replaced injectors, no change.
Was about to rebuild the injector pump when I figured I had air in the fuel lines.
I did a simple test, and found the problem. Fixed it for less than $100 vs $2000+ fuel pump rebuild



Air getting into the fuel causes issues as it compresses. It mucks up the timing advance in the pump, and won't overcome the spring preload to crack the injectors.
The bad timing means fuel won't be completely burnt which shows up as white smoke. The smoke will smell strongly of unburnt diesel.

They just installed brand new injectors and I am told the truck is still not running correctly. Now they want to send the injection pump that was rebuilt to be looked at again.

 

[otilly]

Reading your story again; you live at quite an altitude. Diesels don't like that; not enough oxygen. There is a very special thingy in the fuel pump (can't really recall what exactly) that modifies the pump to the level of oxygen. Maybe that's broken.
Try to search that in google.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

Reading your story again; you live at quite an altitude. Diesels don't like that; not enough oxygen. There is a very special thingy in the fuel pump (can't really recall what exactly) that modifies the pump to the level of oxygen. Maybe that's broken.
Try to search that in google.

It's a 1HDT, turbo fixes that.

Sounds like @ubguessin shop is incompetent or clutching at straws. 1HDT pump isn't anything particular special, the 2 stage injectors are a bit more involved but not rocket science.

A diesel needs 2 things to run, compressed air in the cylinder and fuel at the right time.

If a compression test is good then that's one ticked off. It's a 93 so shouldn't have the piston cracking problems that the earlier engines had

Second is fuel. Does the shop know where the timing is at, and how to time a 1HD? If there are no air leaks and it's timed correctly, does it have the correct injector washers for a 93+ engine? They are different to the earlier ones and if incorrect, will cause the truck to smoke though mine still made 150+ rwkw with the wrong washers, was just smoky at 20:1 AFR which is why the question was raised.

Sorry, random ramblings, Hopefully it makes sense.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Reading your story again; you live at quite an altitude. Diesels don't like that; not enough oxygen. There is a very special thingy in the fuel pump (can't really recall what exactly) that modifies the pump to the level of oxygen. Maybe that's broken.
Try to search that in google.

Altitude compensator? Not on A HDJ81.

 

[ubguessin]

It's a 1HDT, turbo fixes that.

Sounds like @ubguessin shop is incompetent or clutching at straws. 1HDT pump isn't anything particular special, the 2 stage injectors are a bit more involved but not rocket science.

A diesel needs 2 things to run, compressed air in the cylinder and fuel at the right time.

If a compression test is good then that's one ticked off. It's a 93 so shouldn't have the piston cracking problems that the earlier engines had

Second is fuel. Does the shop know where the timing is at, and how to time a 1HD? If there are no air leaks and it's timed correctly, does it have the correct injector washers for a 93+ engine? They are different to the earlier ones and if incorrect, will cause the truck to smoke though mine still made 150+ rwkw with the wrong washers, was just smoky at 20:1 AFR which is why the question was raised.

Sorry, random ramblings, Hopefully it makes sense.

I am told that it is no longer "mis-firing" but running lean. Brand new injectors should be just fine 100% operation. No idea what could be causing it to run lean.

 

[panamacruiser]

My car is a 1HD-T with an A442F...1995 model and up to this date I have never serviced the inyectors, I just take them out, get a metal brush (toothbrush like) and clean them like once every 3 years or so...mine has no mods, and it runs as always...I am the second owner having it for 17 years already.

Don't want to say that the shop is not doing a good job, but if they don't know their way around a toyota diesel, then they may have a little trouble...tell them to get the FSM and follow it, that should work rather well

 

[ubguessin]

My car is a 1HD-T with an A442F...1995 model and up to this date I have never serviced the inyectors, I just take them out, get a metal brush (toothbrush like) and clean them like once every 3 years or so...mine has no mods, and it runs as always...I am the second owner having it for 17 years already

A couple of my OEM injector bodies were leaking hence the service needing done.

 

[panamacruiser]

that was quick

Well I have seen people being mistaken by 1HZ engine inyectors and 1HD-T ones

 

[ubguessin]

I cant imagine that to be the case here given that parties have been in contact with Denis to get the new injectors.

 

[renago]

I am sorry to read your long agony on a poor running 1HD-T .
I am running the same engine with great satisfaction .
your mechanic is certainly a good and professional guy , but these cars are a bit special
As first step just because 150 K miles sounds TOO low for the age of these cars , pls check the compression .
if it is within spec , go ahead , if not you have the choice to rebuild the engine .....
setting the pump and injectors is not complicated but needs a good experience , specifically on this type of engine .
they must ALWAYS bet timed together , and in accordance with the compressione of each piston.
finding a good pump shop is not easy .
In northern Italy we have many cars with this engine , but just 4-5 shops that are able to handle with satisfaction the injector /pump settings .
98% are just reading the book , copy and paste .
its not the way to operate .
good luck

 

[mudgudgeon]

that was quick

Well I have seen people being mistaken by 1HZ engine inyectors and 1HD-T ones

That aren't interchangeable. If they got the wrong ones they wouldn't be able to install them

 

[ubguessin]

I am sorry to read your long agony on a poor running 1HD-T .
I am running the same engine with great satisfaction .
your mechanic is certainly a good and professional guy , but these cars are a bit special
As first step just because 150 K miles sounds TOO low for the age of these cars , pls check the compression .
if it is within spec , go ahead , if not you have the choice to rebuild the engine .....
setting the pump and injectors is not complicated but needs a good experience , specifically on this type of engine .
they must ALWAYS bet timed together , and in accordance with the compressione of each piston.
finding a good pump shop is not easy .
In northern Italy we have many cars with this engine , but just 4-5 shops that are able to handle with satisfaction the injector /pump settings .
98% are just reading the book , copy and paste .
its not the way to operate .
good luck

A compression test was completed and all was within spec

 

[mudgudgeon]

I am told that it is no longer "mis-firing" but running lean. Brand new injectors should be just fine 100% operation. No idea what could be causing it to run lean.

More info needed.
A diesel doesn't "run lean". If it's not getting enough fuel, it just won't make the power it should, but should still run smooth with the fuel is getting.


I'd be seriously questioning what has been done to set or check injection pump timing.

If pump timing is good, it may have a problem with the boost compensator which increases fuel delivery as boost rises.


Or find another shop