Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
jcolvin said:
Where is it . ? I thought I have similar symtoms in my 80 ..
1HD-T idle shake
- Thread starter Martin White
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Where is it . ? I thought I have similar symtoms in my 80 ..
Tapage said:
Have a look at the nice shiny pump pic and what is missing is what you want to know
It is the part 22790 in the bottom RH corner in the blow up diagram
- Thread starter
- #23
Rosco, I love your shiny pump pic, thanks very much for that. I think we've established, but I'm not sure, that we can do without this thermowax device, and that the truck will start and run fine under cold conditions (up to about -20C) without it. If I'm wrong about that please let me know.
As for the blanking plate, I'm not sure if I understand you or not, but I think you're saying it's a stock part. Keeping in mind that I don't really understand the system, do you Aussies just remove the thermowax device (22790) and screw a plate over the opening? Is there something else that needs to be done? Any other parts need to be removed or is the thermowax limited just to external to the fuel pump parts?
I'm looking at the EPC diagram and it doesn't look like there's any internal parts to worry about. So in summary if I have this right, basically you take off the thermowax and put a blanking plate over the opening, is that right, without removing or adjusting anything else? It doesn't look like it would be too hard to make one, or have it made, if that's the case. If there IS a part number for the blanking plate, can you supply it so we can order it?
The Allied guys say they won't do this so I'm on my own with this mod, hence the questions. From what Ken at Ateb tells me, there are a bunch of other vehicles with this problem.
One other question for you Rosco, and I know there are many variables, but what has been your experience as to the lifespan of the pump on a 1HDT? Mine has about 122,000 km on it. What can I roughly expect out of it?
As for the blanking plate, I'm not sure if I understand you or not, but I think you're saying it's a stock part. Keeping in mind that I don't really understand the system, do you Aussies just remove the thermowax device (22790) and screw a plate over the opening? Is there something else that needs to be done? Any other parts need to be removed or is the thermowax limited just to external to the fuel pump parts?
I'm looking at the EPC diagram and it doesn't look like there's any internal parts to worry about. So in summary if I have this right, basically you take off the thermowax and put a blanking plate over the opening, is that right, without removing or adjusting anything else? It doesn't look like it would be too hard to make one, or have it made, if that's the case. If there IS a part number for the blanking plate, can you supply it so we can order it?
The Allied guys say they won't do this so I'm on my own with this mod, hence the questions. From what Ken at Ateb tells me, there are a bunch of other vehicles with this problem.
One other question for you Rosco, and I know there are many variables, but what has been your experience as to the lifespan of the pump on a 1HDT? Mine has about 122,000 km on it. What can I roughly expect out of it?
Martin White said:
I will be making some enquireries in ther next few hours.
The life span of all the Denso 6 cyl pumps is somewhere between 150000-300000.
I spoke to the owner of the shop who made mine nice and shiny.
He says he has never quite got to the bottom of why it has an early demise compared to the 4 cyl version on the 2LT and Bosch Zexel type found on the Nissan patrol 4.2 diesel.
The landcruiser pump has a bigger shaft ,24mm I think and the Nissan has a 19mm shaft and by normal laws should wear out quicker.
Here a pic of mine before the rebuild after it was emersed in salt water for some months.
Make sure the little one are in bed .its ugly
The lines point to the areas that wear out the most.
If you look close there is a blanking plug in the tray that fits onto the reverse side of a pump EDIT thats on the timing piston cover but it might fit
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Greg_B said:
Good point but I dont know.
Some of the guys on Outer limits swear a pusher pump rejuvenates the pump pressure on HZJ75
Im off to a diesel injection shop in 15 mins so Ill add that to my questions.
I have a spare pump I got cheap and I am having it bench tested
roscoFJ73 said:Good point but I dont know.
Some of the guys on Outer limits swear a pusher pump rejuvenates the pump pressure on HZJ75
Im off to a diesel injection shop in 15 mins so Ill add that to my questions.
I have a spare pump I got cheap and I am having it bench tested
Ala this thread for others following: https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=107375
It should almost be moved as it is tech...
gb
Ok I went to Total fuel injection and asked him about the thermowax.
Before I had finished he said "chuck it in the bin"
I asked him about the blanking plate and it is the plate that covers up the engine side of the timing piston but is the same size as the entry hole where the fast idle the thermowax covers..
The 1HZ must have it molded into the housing when cast.
There doesnt appear to be thread in there so I guess it needs to be tapped.
He gave me a couple of plates. They seem easy to make so Ill see what can be done.
Before I had finished he said "chuck it in the bin"
I asked him about the blanking plate and it is the plate that covers up the engine side of the timing piston but is the same size as the entry hole where the fast idle the thermowax covers..
The 1HZ must have it molded into the housing when cast.
There doesnt appear to be thread in there so I guess it needs to be tapped.
He gave me a couple of plates. They seem easy to make so Ill see what can be done.
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Ok, I see the part number for the blanking plate on the diagram now. It is 22612B, and it looks like you need an o-ring 22612D. There must already be threads there for the screws that hold the thermowax on. We should be able to re-use the thermowax screws to hold the plate on.
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The only thing I'm wondering about is what happens inside the pump. What is this lever thingy that breaks off and does all the damage? Does it come straight out attached to the thermowax unit when you pull it? I can't see it on the exploded view.
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roscoFJ73 said:
Speaking of the Patrol, what's the general opinion in Oz of the early 90's Patrol GU's? Good strong trucks? How do they compare to the 80 series?
jcolvin said:
From the exploded view it appears it comes out as an assembly through the hole.
jcolvin said:
You can create some of the longest threads in history asking that question on aussie forums so I think the difference must be pretty close
The 80 is definately the prestige vehicle of the 2 and holds it value better.
The patrol probably doesnt drive as nice as an 80 on road but will hold its own offroad.
Some say the Patrol gearbox and diffs are stronger.
The 80 probably has a nicer interior.
You can go on forever
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
roscoFJ73 said:Have a look at the nice shiny pump pic and what is missing is what you want to know
It is the part 22790 in the bottom RH corner in the blow up diagram
Thanks dude .. I see it . !
And yes .. Patrols have stronger axles .. I thought Cruiser have enought axles ..
- Thread starter
- #36
One other question. When this thermowax ACSD unit is pulled out, do the "settings" inside the pump need to be fixed (locked) or do they stay where they are without any other action? I'm wondering is the setting it adjusts set on a spring? I'm probably not explaining myself very well, but basically I'm wondering if there is more to this than just pulling the thing out and sticking a plate over it, or is that all that is done in Oz right now. Can someone verify this?
Martin White said:
I had to take my spare pump in to get serviced Friday and I wanted to ask more questions,but being a Friday everyone wants there vehicle back for the weekend and I was reluctant to make him explain fully something he considers farily mundane as he was obviously busy.
However he indicated to me it was just a "pull and throw".nothing else to it.
I dont have a turbo pump so I dont have one to monitor.
From what I can gather,the thermowax pushes the elbowed lever which is connected to the timng piston externally.
As the lever rotates it turns the timing piston inside the pump.
Removing the thermowax will leave the timing piston in a fixed position like a 1HZ
Now the bit I dont understand is what the hole is for,as the action seems to take place below the thermowax,externally.
The exploded view seems to show only something that blocks the hole.
More will be revealed.
- Thread starter
- #38
Rosco, I wanted to thank you again for your continued attention to this thread. I don't have my truck right now as it's experiencing some minor surgery at the shop, so I'm trying to understand how this system works from an Ellery manual and your pic. as well as what else I've been able to find on the web. From what I can see, the thermowax plunger appears to push the cold start lever backwards (counterclockwise) and the cold start lever appears to be on a set spring that pushes it forwards (given no resistance from the thermowax plunger). So I'm thinking the "thermowax gone" position is set by the set spring attached to the cold start lever.
I see the part you said about fitting a spacer of 3.5-7.5mm between the thermowax plunger and the cold start lever. This would mean the thermowax can push the cold start lever backwards (counter clockwise) when HOT that 3.5-7.5 mm distance that's preset. (Unless I have this backwards - I'm not sure which way the thermowax plunger pushes when it's hot - trying to use logic I'm thinking it's going to be out, towards the cold start lever, thereby turning the cold start lever counterclockwise by that 3.5-7.5 mm distance.) I'm looking forward to more info. on this. (If the plunger goes IN when hot, then I do have this completely backwards, and the cold start lever position would need to be pushed counterclockwise and fixed there).
So I think you can probably see what's confusing here (to me at least) is establishing the correct position of the cold start lever with the thermowax unit removed, ie one that will allow the truck to idle properly while both cold and hot. If my truck idles poorly with the plunger sticking when it's hot, is that then going to mean that if I leave the cold start lever in its default position, that it's going to idle badly? I think Jonathon mentioned the ACSD is only for cold emissions but it seems to me it's more than that, IF its malfunction can cause a poor idle. So I'm a little confused about how the lever and the thermowax inter relate.
I see the part you said about fitting a spacer of 3.5-7.5mm between the thermowax plunger and the cold start lever. This would mean the thermowax can push the cold start lever backwards (counter clockwise) when HOT that 3.5-7.5 mm distance that's preset. (Unless I have this backwards - I'm not sure which way the thermowax plunger pushes when it's hot - trying to use logic I'm thinking it's going to be out, towards the cold start lever, thereby turning the cold start lever counterclockwise by that 3.5-7.5 mm distance.) I'm looking forward to more info. on this. (If the plunger goes IN when hot, then I do have this completely backwards, and the cold start lever position would need to be pushed counterclockwise and fixed there).
So I think you can probably see what's confusing here (to me at least) is establishing the correct position of the cold start lever with the thermowax unit removed, ie one that will allow the truck to idle properly while both cold and hot. If my truck idles poorly with the plunger sticking when it's hot, is that then going to mean that if I leave the cold start lever in its default position, that it's going to idle badly? I think Jonathon mentioned the ACSD is only for cold emissions but it seems to me it's more than that, IF its malfunction can cause a poor idle. So I'm a little confused about how the lever and the thermowax inter relate.
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- Thread starter
- #39
This thread seems to have dried up. Anyone have anything further to add that will address the remaining unanswered questions by myself and others above? I'm thinking it may be an idea to try and speak directly with an Aussie shop that does the blanking plate mod.
Here is someone who has had the cold start mechanism fail and damage his pump on a 1HD T and he considers himself lucky
I got it from the Difflock forum UK,its about halfway down.
He is also suffering from glazed cylinder bores and a burnt out wallet from taking it to mechanics who are in unfamiliar territory.
"Hi Guys
Many thanks for the replies on this.
I am now more confused than ever, but only as I expected to be really.
I have looked into some oil called running in oil which is supposed to be for just that running a new or rebuilt engine in.
I have looked at using the brasso in the glow plug holes.
I have looked at the heavy loading up hill, down hill etc.
I have looked at some oil additives that claim to be good when only added to your existing oil.
At this point I don't know what to do.
I know I can get the engine rebuilt again but cant afford to do that with the cost of labour etc.
I am waiting to get it back from the Diesel experts because of a break down and will have to pay for an injector pump strip and rebuild for the second time in four years.
This time the cause was the cold start ball bearing in the pump which broke off and lodged itself in the pump.
It it had not lodged as is usually the case it would have wrecked the entire injector pump and I would have needed to buy a new one.
So this has to be paid for first and then ill see what can be done to stop it drinking the very expensive synth oil.
I am thinking about going back to Dino oil at the next change to see if there is a difference in consumption.
Any more ideas please let me know.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT"
I got it from the Difflock forum UK,its about halfway down.
He is also suffering from glazed cylinder bores and a burnt out wallet from taking it to mechanics who are in unfamiliar territory.
"Hi Guys
Many thanks for the replies on this.
I am now more confused than ever, but only as I expected to be really.
I have looked into some oil called running in oil which is supposed to be for just that running a new or rebuilt engine in.
I have looked at using the brasso in the glow plug holes.
I have looked at the heavy loading up hill, down hill etc.
I have looked at some oil additives that claim to be good when only added to your existing oil.
At this point I don't know what to do.
I know I can get the engine rebuilt again but cant afford to do that with the cost of labour etc.
I am waiting to get it back from the Diesel experts because of a break down and will have to pay for an injector pump strip and rebuild for the second time in four years.
This time the cause was the cold start ball bearing in the pump which broke off and lodged itself in the pump.
It it had not lodged as is usually the case it would have wrecked the entire injector pump and I would have needed to buy a new one.
So this has to be paid for first and then ill see what can be done to stop it drinking the very expensive synth oil.
I am thinking about going back to Dino oil at the next change to see if there is a difference in consumption.
Any more ideas please let me know.
cheers
john 92HDJ 80 1HDT"
