1993 Rare 1 of 10????????? Is this real?

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Especially in this case. If it truly is an an import, then it's either a VIN swap or something else that's not exactly legal. There is no way to legally import a vehicle that new unless it's US spec, which according to him it's not (Middle Eastern spec). The government can (and will) take the vehicle away and leave me out the $$$ I pay him if they catch me trying to register a grey/black market vehicle. There can be very large fines attached to that as well. The US government doesn't like people who import grey/black market vehicles, and tend to come down on them when they catch 'em.

Well, that's not 100% exactly true. Remember the Mercedes G-wagens that were imported to America in the mid 90s. There was a company that federalized them and they weren't exactly US-spec either. They also charged a pretty hefty premium to people that wanted one.

Here's the list of cars you can actually import to the US that is under 25 years old.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/elig010807.pdf

This isn't the same case as importing an old Nissan Skyline but just another 80-series Land Cruiser with basically the same US-spec engine.
 
Well, that's not 100% exactly true. Remember the Mercedes G-wagens that were imported to America in the mid 90s. There was a company that federalized them and they weren't exactly US-spec either. They also charged a pretty hefty premium to people that wanted one.

Here's the list of cars you can actually import to the US that is under 25 years old.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/elig010807.pdf

This isn't the same case as importing an old Nissan Skyline but just another 80-series Land Cruiser with basically the same US-spec engine.

It's not even apples and oranges.

Federalizing a vehicle is one thing, you have to jump through all sorts of hoops, get a VIN, get tons of signatures and paperwork filled out, etc. That's why there can easily be a $20k premium on the process.

A Middle Eastern spec Cruiser, whether with a 1FZ or not, will not be federalized. It will not have a VIN. It will not have the signatures or paperwork required.

The fact that it's "basically the same US-spec engine" means nothing. As a simple example, many 80's overseas had no EGR system and no cats (or cats and no rear O2 sensor). That puts them far out of compliance with US requirements. A foreign spec 1FZ would be fairly easy to bring up to US spec, but you'd basically be taking it and strapping on all the parts that were for a US truck. And all that is no guarantee that they'll let you import it, many people attempt to import vehicles in this fashion, get rejected (after jumping through all the hoops and spending thousands of dollars), then sell it as a grey/black market vehicle.

Easier would be to do an engine swap, which is legal in most states. I've heard Cali is rejecting even some of those now. That's not what he's claiming he did here.

A simple test would be to ask for the VIN. If he has one, it'll be a specially assigned one and not a standard VIN.

There was a grey market diesel 80 on eBay for a while back. Story was the seller bought it somewhere back east where the state registered it, moved to Cali, and Cali flat out rejected the vehicle even though it had been legally registered in another state. IF this vehicle is an import (which I am extremely doubtful of to begin with) then you run the risk of being rejected for registration or renewal every time it comes up. If you move to another state or sell it, there's a fair chance of it being rejected.

As I said, I did a ton of research on this as I have family in the Philippines, and because the country is so poor prices are cheap. It would be extremely cheap for me to buy and ship an 80 (diesel or petrol). Getting it legally drivable over here (100% legal, not grey/black market) could easily set me back many thousands of dollars as I jump through hoops. I've heard of stories of people spending $20k+ trying to get it all done, only to have it fail.

That's why importers pick a vehicle that's essentially already US spec and need very little adjustments to get it up to par. It has to be popular, because they might spend a couple hundred thousand buying, transporting, modifying, and running through paperwork to get the vehicle OK'ed. And even with all that, they still sell them for such a high premium that most people can't afford 'em. And you still run the risk of certain states refusing to register them.

And while the NHTSA might okay the 80 for import, that's the easy part. Getting a VIN for a vehicle that doesn't have one already is darn near impossible. Even the NHTSA's page acknowledges the difficulty with getting a VIN.

VIN Issues
Under NHTSA's regulations at 49 CFR Part 565, a motor vehicle manufacturer must assign to each motor vehicle manufactured for sale in the U.S. a 17-digit VIN that uniquely identifies the vehicle. The VIN must be correctly formatted and include a check digit in the ninth position that is mathematically correct under a formula that is included in the regulations. Typographical errors in a VIN can only be corrected by the vehicle's manufacturer. Contact information for many vehicle manufacturers is available on NHTSA's website at Manufacturers' Information. Unless you have contacted the manufacturer and been informed that the manufacturer cannot assist you, please do not contact NHTSA if you have been advised by a State DMV or other authority that there is an error in the VIN assigned to your vehicle.
 
It's not even apples and oranges.

Federalizing a vehicle is one thing, you have to jump through all sorts of hoops, get a VIN, get tons of signatures and paperwork filled out, etc. That's why there can easily be a $20k premium on the process.

A Middle Eastern spec Cruiser, whether with a 1FZ or not, will not be federalized. It will not have a VIN. It will not have the signatures or paperwork required.

The fact that it's "basically the same US-spec engine" means nothing. As a simple example, many 80's overseas had no EGR system and no cats (or cats and no rear O2 sensor). That puts them far out of compliance with US requirements. A foreign spec 1FZ would be fairly easy to bring up to US spec, but you'd basically be taking it and strapping on all the parts that were for a US truck. And all that is no guarantee that they'll let you import it, many people attempt to import vehicles in this fashion, get rejected (after jumping through all the hoops and spending thousands of dollars), then sell it as a grey/black market vehicle.

Easier would be to do an engine swap, which is legal in most states. I've heard Cali is rejecting even some of those now. That's not what he's claiming he did here.

A simple test would be to ask for the VIN. If he has one, it'll be a specially assigned one and not a standard VIN.

There was a grey market diesel 80 on eBay for a while back. Story was the seller bought it somewhere back east where the state registered it, moved to Cali, and Cali flat out rejected the vehicle even though it had been legally registered in another state. IF this vehicle is an import (which I am extremely doubtful of to begin with) then you run the risk of being rejected for registration or renewal every time it comes up. If you move to another state or sell it, there's a fair chance of it being rejected.

As I said, I did a ton of research on this as I have family in the Philippines, and because the country is so poor prices are cheap. It would be extremely cheap for me to buy and ship an 80 (diesel or petrol). Getting it legally drivable over here (100% legal, not grey/black market) could easily set me back many thousands of dollars as I jump through hoops. I've heard of stories of people spending $20k+ trying to get it all done, only to have it fail.

That's why importers pick a vehicle that's essentially already US spec and need very little adjustments to get it up to par. It has to be popular, because they might spend a couple hundred thousand buying, transporting, modifying, and running through paperwork to get the vehicle OK'ed. And even with all that, they still sell them for such a high premium that most people can't afford 'em. And you still run the risk of certain states refusing to register them.

And while the NHTSA might okay the 80 for import, that's the easy part. Getting a VIN for a vehicle that doesn't have one already is darn near impossible. Even the NHTSA's page acknowledges the difficulty with getting a VIN.



There's no need to argue whether this particular truck was a US-spec truck that went to another country or just a plain USDM truck that was already here and had a couple add-ons. We both don't know that.

But anyways, how do you know know it does not have a VIN despite being in the Middle East? Whether you believe it or not, many US-spec cars are sold in other countries as brand new. Those same US-spec cars could be slightly modified to use in those countries and in this case, perhaps port installed CDL switch and whatever things he said it had. You really believe Toyota would have specifically made a whole 80-series just for the Middle East?

Some countries prefer to buy JDM trucks then modify, some prefer Australia, European, and some like the safety tested USDM. That's up to the country and Toyota will give them what they will plunk the cash for. The USDM trucks are already generated VIN right off the bat and just shipped off to other ports. Could this be one? No idea but it's not impossible.
 
There's no need to argue whether this particular truck was a US-spec truck that went to another country or just a plain USDM truck that was already here and had a couple add-ons. We both don't know that.

It's possible it was a US truck that was exported and re-imported. Except....we know it's not. There were no US trucks that were a "rally edition", and the seller specifically stated that the reason we don't know about this "rally edition" is that it was not US spec.

Let me guess you just read up on this on google which tells you only about the North American Version.

Right there he states that this was not a US (or Canada) spec truck. So yes, we actually know that.

If it's not a US spec truck, it has no VIN (from the manufacturer). Why would Toyota pay to register a VIN on a truck that was never going to go to the US? Additionally, the specifics of the vehicle would have to be registered, and there'd be a record of a "rally edition" for the US. Which there isn't.

So it's absolutely not a US truck that was diverted to the Middle East, upgraded with this magic "Rally Edition" that makes it light weight and go places where most Cruiser's can't go. :rolleyes:


I think it's somewhat interesting that you keep defending these ludicrous claims. Go do some research and show me any legit reference to a "rally edition" version of the 80 series. Then maybe I'll believe that the seller wasn't full of :censor: when he wrote up that ad.
 
It's possible it was a US truck that was exported and re-imported. Except....we know it's not. There were no US trucks that were a "rally edition", and the seller specifically stated that the reason we don't know about this "rally edition" is that it was not US spec.



Right there he states that this was not a US (or Canada) spec truck. So yes, we actually know that.

If it's not a US spec truck, it has no VIN (from the manufacturer). Why would Toyota pay to register a VIN on a truck that was never going to go to the US? Additionally, the specifics of the vehicle would have to be registered, and there'd be a record of a "rally edition" for the US. Which there isn't.

So it's absolutely not a US truck that was diverted to the Middle East, upgraded with this magic "Rally Edition" that makes it light weight and go places where most Cruiser's can't go. :rolleyes:


I think it's somewhat interesting that you keep defending these ludicrous claims. Go do some research and show me any legit reference to a "rally edition" version of the 80 series. Then maybe I'll believe that the seller wasn't full of :censor: when he wrote up that ad.



Sigh, the lightweight claim is ridiculous. I'll get off this truck's back and just talk about importing cars under 25 years old that weren't originally sold on US soil.

As far as whatever special editions goes, there are countless editions for many cars and trucks made in the US and elsewhere. Every US region has their own edition of something (I definitely know New England and apparently Texas/Oklahoma has their own F150), this could easily be a regional edition for all we know. For crying out loud, there are dealers around where I live that would make their own "special" edition Toyota Corollas which has accessory wheels, upgraded stereos, SE floor mats, and SE leather heated seats.

Obviously that seller put a lot of emphasis on this "Rally" word which pushed all your wrong buttons. Sellers of used cars are generally not trust worthy regardless of anything (including relatives and family). I don't care if a car is 3 or 15 years old. You do your own homework first and then make a calculated risk. It is your hard earned money afterall.

Anyways, any country around the world could put an order of xxx USDM Land Cruisers and the ones that were originally destined for North America can be diverted to whatever country. It's the buyer that pays for it regardless. This happens for all manufacturers.

What I find very interesting is you do not believe brand new cars with US VINs exist somewhere else in this world. Is it really hard to believe a car that was originally intended to be sold and driven in the US could be driving somewhere else besides the US?
 
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Obviously that seller put a lot of emphasis on this "Rally" word which pushed all your wrong buttons.

You're missing the forest for the tree.

It really doesn't have to do with the "rally" word. It has to do with pretty much all of his claims being exaggerations (IE: the "light weight" claim because it doesn't have the sunroof) to extremely dubious (IE: the 20 HP claim from a flashed ECU, if someone knew how to flash an LC ECU they'd be extremely popular and wealthy) to flat out lies (IE: it'll go where most Land Cruisers can't go).

If he made one silly claim ("It's a rally edition") fine. But to make pretty much every statement you make questionable....?


What I find very interesting is you do not believe brand new cars with US VINs exist somewhere else in this world. Is it really hard to believe a car that was originally intended to be sold and driven in the US could be driving somewhere else besides the US?

Oh I believe that--in fact that's well documented that exactly what you just said happens. Many 80's were pulled out of the states, either diverted or exported. So I absolutely believe that US spec vehicles are all around the world, with VIN's and everything else.

I just don't believe his claims. ;)
 
Oh I believe that--in fact that's well documented that exactly what you just said happens. Many 80's were pulled out of the states, either diverted or exported. So I absolutely believe that US spec vehicles are all around the world, with VIN's and everything else.

I just don't believe his claims. ;)


Glad we're on the same page.



What I hope is whoever this so called "fanatic" that bought the truck will come on Mud. If only the truck could talk. I'd love to see more pix of it. USDM poverty models are always interesting.
 
What I hope is whoever this so called "fanatic" that bought the truck will come on Mud. If only the truck could talk. I'd love to see more pix of it. USDM poverty models are always interesting.

Indeed. It's a very interesting truck, very eye catching and I'd like to see more details. It's a shame that folks think they need to exaggerate/lie about what they have when what they have is something unique and interesting in it's own right!
 
Honestly I do not know about this rig, its being a "Rally Edition" or whatever.

What I do know is that the Subtank and all related parts going into my truck were pulled off of a 93 FZJ80 in a Houston junkyard last year which originated in Egypt. It was turned in for the Cash4Clunkers program...and it had a bunch of oddities, such as a part-time transfer case, front Aisin manual hubs, and a limited slip rear differential. How it ever got into the US, registered, and then cashed-in, I have no idea...just glad that a fellow mudder was able to pull out all the sub-related parts and they are going into my rig.

My point is that non-US rigs do get into the US from time-to-time. Personally I would not buy one knowing what Ebag333 said, the US Gov will crush your rig if they find out.

:cheers:

Steve
 
A local friend of mine here who has posted in this thread worked at Gulf States Toyota which is a completely different Toyota system than the rest of the Toyota system nationwide that most of us are used to.

They got a s***-ton of stuff we never got in the states in terms of production vehicles. He stated that Toyota has a completely different parts/port distribution set up in the Gulf States region. Tons of LC's with steel wheels, cloth seats, non-sliding rear windows, no sun roof, etc. were brought in vis-a-vis Gulf States.

Being that Gulf States Toyota is HQ'ed in Houston, I wouldn't be surprised that there are tons of odd LC's in that area.
 
I worked in the middle east around 98. The rigs i came across down there were giants compare to ours down here.

As far as the sellers claim of rally edition i dont know but i remember seeing a rally sport edition rig tweaked by local toyota dealership in dubai but thats very common out there. Most of these dealerships are owned by individual owners who do their own tweaks.
 
A local friend of mine here who has posted in this thread worked at Gulf States Toyota which is a completely different Toyota system than the rest of the Toyota system nationwide that most of us are used to.

They got a ****-ton of stuff we never got in the states in terms of production vehicles. He stated that Toyota has a completely different parts/port distribution set up in the Gulf States region. Tons of LC's with steel wheels, cloth seats, non-sliding rear windows, no sun roof, etc. were brought in vis-a-vis Gulf States.

Being that Gulf States Toyota is HQ'ed in Houston, I wouldn't be surprised that there are tons of odd LC's in that area.


Not only are there specific parts for the Middle East. I live in Mali a country in West Africa. Toyota makes specific engines for the vehicles here due to the low quality of fuel and the environment. I know this because when my company went to buy new vehicles we attempted to import to here from Europe but had to buy local due to a message from Toyota reccomending the process if I can find th email from their rep and will post.
 
About 10 years ago, I lived in NC. There was a german who had brought over his 80 series. He stated that it was easy to import because of the same engine as US spec, and german safety requirements. I don't know if it was true or not but it had NC plates.

also, Drexx had a HDJ80 imported from the czech republic.https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...0-80-series-diesel-california.html#post303602

As for craigslist claims, there was a FJ80 on the Atlanta list that claimed, 18 city/24 highway mpg!
 
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I had a Gray Market Mercedes Benz for a few years, an already rare to begin with 500E with an even rarer AMG 6.0L engine, the original owner imported her in 1992 and had a firm in California do a Federalization conversion on her. The base 500E was about $90k in Europe, the AMG Engine was another $25k and the fully legal DOT Federalization cost him an additional $48k, this is all in 1992 money. That was almost the price of a Ferrari Testarossa back then. I had all the paperwork for it and the VIN tag that was added to the car during the process since all that she had otherwise was a chassis ID, every year getting the registration done was a pain.

Then he passed away and I bought it from his daughter for $10k and sold it to a collector in Brooklyn for $28k. The Grey Market cars can be both VERY desirable but also just as likely to be a hack job of a base model.

But that car was a 1 of 1 in the US. There wasn't another legally imported original 6.0L 500E in the entire country and only few surviving around the world anyway.

my $.02
 
So I had a chat with someone on another forum and apparently, there's a program for all military personnel stationed outside the country. They can buy any cars from the US and have them shipped over to a dealership of their choice in whatever country they are in. That's quite nice of the government to offer such a service.

Now if I were in the same shoes, I'd never do such a thing since everybody else in this world seem to get the better stuff anyways!!
 


yah mines a Jeff Corwin edition. one of only 9 so the rally guy can suck it....

193188729_VeBtw-M.jpg



:grinpimp:
 
That is truely Bad A$$!

Have you looked into seeing if you can get it autographed?
 

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