Builds 1977 FJ40 Rebuild – Focus on Custom Stainless Tub

[psmbfuer]

Sure thing knuckle47, but remember, I only directly cooled the aluminum plate, not the weld (although I have seen others cool the weld directly), and cooling too fast can be an issue as well. Without also meeting most, if not all of the other criteria, you'll likely still see the weld. The rockers are kind of a best case scenario, with the weld right at the bend moving into the skeleton and with a large lap from the outer floor directly behind the middle or the rocker, helping with heat dissipation and alignment. Good luck with everything if / when your 40 needs some surgery.

 

[psmbfuer]

Roll Bar Supports
The roll bar supports on our 40 might have been salvageable, but they are rusted, fairly heavily. We also originally had not planned to replace the vertical portion of the wheel wells, but the more we worked on the truck, the more the large lap joint between the floor and this vertical wheel well paneled bothered us (more me - there was rust hiding in there after all). The vertical wheel well panels also had some rust and needed repair at the rear. With all of this, at some point we decided that we would need to replace the vertical wheel wells, and if we plan to go this far, reinstalling the original roll bar supports, even chemically and mechanically cleaned and painted, was not an option.

With this, we decided to draw and fab a stainless set - unfortunately, this part again strays somewhat from the OEM look.

Below is a pic of what we were starting with - although we had already started drilling the spot welds.

Unfortunately, we don't have any pics of the freshly cut, unbent parts, but hopefully the pics below paint a clear picture. As usual, we used the homemade manual bender for all 90 degree bends that you see below. Once we bent 90 degrees on both sides of the center piece, we used clamps, vice grips, and a mallet to slowly work the convex and concave bends into this center piece, using the side forms to guide the shape, serving as a hammer jig. And notice the red "gun" behind the pieces - we will cover this in a little detail below.

Each roll bar support is built from 4 separate peices, three of which are seen in the following pic. The forth piece is a backing plate that can be seen in the third through fifth pics below.

I don't seem to have a pic of just the new roll bar supports, so this one will due. The curved peices in the front of the pic should be reconized from Post #21 - something that we called the Rear Quarter Panel Sill Extensions.

In addition to using all of the expansion / contraction "Vs" as weld points, we also used our Tec TIG Spot gun to weld the curved middle piece to each side. To this day, despite a good bit of experimentation, I'm not as comfortable with the strength of the spot welds created with it, when compared against plug / rosette welds. I also should say that I have limited experience and empirical data to support this claim, so don't let this discourage you from looking into one. Below is one pic of the spot welds from the Tec.

The Tec TIG spot weld connects directly to my Miller Dynasty 200 DX. You then set the Spot Timer on the 200 DX to 2 seconds, set amperage at 100A to start. Then start tacking a sample piece and tune your amperage and time settings until you are happy that you have good penetration. The beauty of it is that you only need access to one side of the lap joint, unlike resistive spot welders where probes must touch both sides of the lap.

If you do decide to try one, be certain to tightly clamp the two pieces together and don't rely on pushing force from the gun tip. The tip is not designed for a lot of force and things might break - and I do have experience with that, but again, entirely my fault.

 

[psmbfuer]

@ceylonfj40nut, I just noticed I have another pic of the bender in action helping to make one of the roll bar support pieces shown above. The simplicity of this bender, not having a dedicated clamping top piece is in many cases an advantage in that I can change out this piece and make boxes or in the case below, it is quite easy to use it for a corner bend, even with the full length angle in place. There are some drawbacks as well, but thought it worth mentioning.

 

[andrewbridges1]

@ceylonfj40nut, I just noticed I have another pic of the bender in action helping to make one of the roll bar support pieces shown above. The simplicity of this bender, not having a dedicated clamping top piece is in many cases an advantage in that I can change out this piece and make boxes or in the case below, it is quite easy to use it for a corner bend, even with the full length angle in place. There are some drawbacks as well, but thought it worth mentioning.
View attachment 3776389

Is that bender something you fabbed up? can we see it without anything on it?

 

[wimberosa]

Is that bender something you fabbed up? can we see it without anything on it?

It looks like maybe a 10" flat bar with a few hinges on one side and a piece of angle iron as the part you flip up to bend. I like it because you could even move it around and clamp the whole thing to your table. I don't have a lot of room for dedicated pieces ... so a bender that I could move to the table would be nice. Of course I didn't fab that much but when I did bends I did it the super cheap way with just a couple of peices of angle iron clamped over the sheet metal and a rubber mallet and brute force to bend light 18 gauge. Don't do it my way unless you have short bends that are not super important to be perfect. A long straight bend that will be visible should have a hinge type bender like paul's.

 

[psmbfuer]

Yes, this is a homemade bender. I provided a rough parts list and additional details back on post #34, just in case you missed it, but I will do my best to get out to the shop and take several additional pics today.

The main base of the bender is a C Channel, I believe 8" x 2" x ~48", but I'll measure that later today as well. I use a single stainless piano hinge for the length of the C Channel - the hinge connects the main C Channel to the ~2" x 1" bar stock. And it has been an invaluable addition to the shop, but similar to wimberosa, I started with clams, loose angle iron, a hammer or mallet, and sometimes a torch, depending on what I was trying to coerce a bend into, and even with this bender, when bending a long piece of 18 gauge stainless, for example. I will need to use a mallet, especially on the end away from the handle, hitting the 2" x 1" flat stock, and sometime, I will need to swing the flat stock out of the way and carefully finalize the bend with the mallet.

Below is the first pic from post #34 and it is very difficult to see the C Channel or the top of the table, so more pics soon.

And similar to wimberosa, my shop is on the smaller side, so space is very tight, which is another reason for making this as as did. There is no stand other than the table that it sits on, and when I am done with it, I will often stand it on end, giving me back my table top for other purposes.

Here is a shot of my shop's main side, and with a 40 inside, there is not much additional space. I have had my LX450 in the shop for a bit pulling the drivetrain, and I can only walk around one side of it. The bender is on the other side of the steps and can't be seen in this shot.

 

[Malleus]

Next we final-fit the new panel, used a magnet and clamps to hold it in place and butt welded it all back together.
View attachment 3762851View attachment 3762852
Here are some shots from the bottom side.
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Now the top side, with the welds complete.
View attachment 3762854
And the following is more a shot of the passenger floor, but it appears to the the only shot of the new passenger mid-tub cross member after final grinding.
View attachment 3762876
And we should have posted these first I suppose, but here is the unbent panel being cut on the CNC table.
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The pic below is of several components that we were working, but the larger panel in the lower right is what would become the passenger side mid-tub cross member replacement.
View attachment 3762857

For someone who claims not to have any formal training, you sure do a good job of making it look like you know what you're doing.

I used to design this stuff for a living, and I'd be very happy to have have you working for me at the time.

 

[Malleus]

Tinman – A Quick Sidebar
Derailing my own thread to share a little fun, and connecting back to the final pic in Post #34 - this was a door skin for a custom trailer that we built largely for the same reasons as the FJ40, to go camping, primarily out west. I purchased a military trailer and a military EMP/Bio-hazard shelter, then mounted the shelter, built out the inside and outside, and headed west, in what we now called Tinman.

We went out during my son’s spring break, which coincidentally landed us in the middle of “Easter Jeep Safari/Jeep Week”. This was a fantastic week and trip, camped roughly 25 minutes west of Moab, and biking many trails in the area. A week like this makes the work worthwhile.

It could only have been made better if we had a Land Cruiser suitable for pulling Tinman at the time.

Here is Tinman after we strapped the shelter onto the frame to bring it home - about a mile drive.
View attachment 3766381
Here is our camp set up west of Moab.
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And a pic back at home, with a few upgrades - the crutch leg for the sliding kitchen worked reasonably well, but this one is much more sturdy.
View attachment 3766389

that reminds me too much of FTXs. Good work, though!

 

[alberta mac]

For someone who claims not to have any formal training, you sure do a good job of making it look like you know what you're doing.

I used to design this stuff for a living, and I'd be very happy to have have you working for me at the time.

''used a magnet'' thought you were using stainless ?

 

[psmbfuer]

Coming back to the homemade bender, I have taken measurement and additional pics:

• The C Channel base is actually 6” x 1.75” x 48.75"
• The flat bar stock is 1” x .75”
• The handle is .75" x 27" rebar
• I'll go back and update post #34 with the above corrections.

And you will see from the pics that I have managed to bend the handle over the years, but everything else, including the hinge is still straight and solid.

As it sits on the table, it is obviously not in a position to use, but it provides and unobstructed view.

Here are several end shots so you can see how it all comes together.

The following shows the full-length .5" angle that stays with the bender, but I use whatever is needed to work corners or even trays.

 

[psmbfuer]

Hey alberta mac, the magnet is pulling against the original and remaining carbon steel center portion of the mid-tub cross member, serving as a stop to the new panel, so it doesn't try to move foward before I get a few tacks started. With the long vice grips in place, it is likely not needed. And for clarity sake, if I were using 400 Series stainless, the magnet would pull against it as well, but everything I'm using is 304, unless a piece of 316 slipped through - I get most of my stainless from a scrap yard and most of what I buy has the alloy number stamped on it.

I also noticed your FJ45 king cab reference in your signature line - very nice. Is it still progressing? After we complete this 40 (should that ever happen), I'm hoping to build a slightly shorter extended cab than yours, on an LX450 chassis that I have. I have most of my drawing and planning complete, but Cruiser time is in short supply when compared with the rest of life.

 

[psmbfuer]

Thanks very much for that @Malleus - very kind of you. Across life, my primary formal / structured training has been in Music and Computer Science, but I lived back east in the Rust Belt when I was a kid, so I got pretty comfortable with tin snip and rivets, and although this work was very basic, even rough, patching holes for State Inspection with my Dad, I suppose it started the thought processes in the right direction.

I also owned Land Cruisers since roughly 1987, and I moved a good deal back then, so had several, and they all needed work, although I never owned a welder or had many tools, so I again either riveted in more patches or paid for work. Then I started a shop to repair Cruisers back in the early 90s with a partner. I still had a very fulltime day job, but the partner was a very good welder and I was impressed seeing his work. The shop didn’t last long, so no welding or design/fab experience there to speak of either.

Then in roughly 1993, I purchased a 65 Carryall from the original owner. For the year, it was in excellent shape, but it still needed a fair bit of metal work. I also just purchase my first house, so had a little room to work and I purchased a Miller 185. I have been reading / learning-by-doing since. By nature, I get hung up on design details and all things that are are pretty, so having things poorly designed / fab’d, or welds that are not pretty, rubs me wrong. That said, I have plenty of ugly welds, and some pretty mediocre fab work yet to shared, but I’m always working to understand why and improve – and interestingly enough, most poor fab and / or welds are not due to the technical aspects of the job, but rather mindset aspects at the time of the job – distractions, rushing, thinking that I can get a clean weld while being slightly out of position, etc.

And thanks for the comments about Tinman – it was a ton of fun to build and even more fun taking it out west with my son to catch up with a few freinds.

 

[psmbfuer]

Thanks very much Mike Shull - very sorry that I missed this your comments. Quite a build thread you have going - keep up the excellent work.

 

[andrewbridges1]

Yes, this is a homemade bender. I provided a rough parts list and additional details back on post #34, just in case you missed it, but I will do my best to get out to the shop and take several additional pics today.

The main base of the bender is a C Channel, I believe 8" x 2" x ~48", but I'll measure that later today as well. I use a single stainless piano hinge for the length of the C Channel - the hinge connects the main C Channel to the ~2" x 1" bar stock. And it has been an invaluable addition to the shop, but similar to wimberosa, I started with clams, loose angle iron, a hammer or mallet, and sometimes a torch, depending on what I was trying to coerce a bend into, and even with this bender, when bending a long piece of 18 gauge stainless, for example. I will need to use a mallet, especially on the end away from the handle, hitting the 2" x 1" flat stock, and sometime, I will need to swing the flat stock out of the way and carefully finalize the bend with the mallet.

Below is the first pic from post #34 and it is very difficult to see the C Channel or the top of the table, so more pics soon.
View attachment 3776412
And similar to wimberosa, my shop is on the smaller side, so space is very tight, which is another reason for making this as as did. There is no stand other than the table that it sits on, and when I am done with it, I will often stand it on end, giving me back my table top for other purposes.

Here is a shot of my shop's main side, and with a 40 inside, there is not much additional space. I have had my LX450 in the shop for a bit pulling the drivetrain, and I can only walk around one side of it. The bender is on the other side of the steps and can't be seen in this shot.
View attachment 3776416

Thanks buddy. I thought I saw all them. I check every day at 7:30 during class so sometimes stuff goes over my head

 

[psmbfuer]

Sure thing and happy for the engagement, it makes this far more interesting and hopefully the addition pics paint a clearer picture for everyone - see you at 7:30.

 

[andrewbridges1]

Sure thing and happy for the engagement, it makes this far more interesting and hopefully the addition pics paint a clearer picture for everyone - see you at 7:30.

See what did I say . I need to do what you’re doing to mine but don’t want to have to paint it. Can’t wait to see it complete!

 

[psmbfuer]

And if you use stainless, you won't need to paint it, at least nothing more than the weld areas.

 

[psmbfuer]

The Rear Sill

From a rust perspective, the rear sill is typically one of the most impacted locations on a 40. Due to is location and the way it is designed, it serves as a scoop, catching water, dirt, road salt / brine, creating a perfect environment for rust. Mine, however, is an exception to this in that it isn’t rusted that badly - it is simply missing half of the original steel. Okay, everyone knows the above, but it helps to introduce what we are working with:

In order to start assembling the rear of the 40, we first need to address the rear sill and uprights so we have a stable, square, level, and plumb foundation for the other rear panels to tie into.

 

[psmbfuer]

So How Do We Build a Replacement Sill and Uprights

We had been thinking about the rear opening for some time and had progressed through several prototyping efforts to see what solutions might work the best. Also, by the time we started to focus on the sill in earnest, we had picked up an old press brake that might help, so here are several options that we explored in creating a new rear sill and uprights, while preserving the outer profile (the half inch by half inch recess where the doors mate).

1. Use the press brake to form the needed bends to replicate the rear sill and uprights. To do this we would need to make several bends in roughly half an inch of each other, at least if we were to keep the original profile. To do this, we needed to use a very narrow die, but with a narrow die, you loose the leverage that a wider die would provide, and with a old and weakened 13 ton press, there is no way for us to press the needed bends into a ~41” piece of 18 gauge stainless. We did prototype this and were able to bend short pieces of stainless that were close to the correct profile for the sill, but we would need to make exact replicas and then weld multiple lengths together, which would be time consuming at best, and at worst (and likely) ending with a sill that simply was not as clean, straight, seamless, or as strong as desired.
2. We approached a local fab shop that has far stronger and more sophisticated equipment, hoping that they could make the needed bends and we would then work the latch area and insert the strengthening gussets similar to the OEM style ourselves (two or the gussets can be seen in the above pic). The shop has a lot of equipment, but they did not have a narrow enough die to make the needed bends, so we put this on hold as we thought through other ideas.
3. Simplistically, the rear sill could be looked at as a rectangle tube, with the one corner inverted, so we decided to start with a 2 x 4 stainless tub, for prototyping purposes, and cut the corner out for the entire length, cutting back from corner by half an inch on each side, then invert this corner and weld it back into place. The resulting welds should be fairly easy to grind and finish in that they would both be on a outer, convex bends with good access for grinding. But the 2 x 4 tub is holding a lot of stress from how it was originally formed and when we cut the corner out of the length, the tube twisted. At this point, we were considering pre-installing inside reinforcements, that in theory, would hold the tube true as we removed the corner again. And although we hadn’t completely abandoned this approach, we also hadn't progressed it before the next ideal came to light.
4. Then, one day, I was perusing my favorite scrap yard, (they actually collect and sell scrap to people like us, not just to the large smelters, and they generally have a fair supply of stainless sheet and various stainless tube – you never know if they will have what you are looking for, but I needed some 16 and 18 gauge sheet, and it is generally about half the price of retail, so I drove up for a visit), and I came across the holy grail that spawned this final design - a piece of stainless tube that would change how we would approach the sill and uprights. It was .5” tall and 1.5” wide. We would sit this tube on top of a 2” x 3” tube, but offset it inward from the rear by half an inch, forming an OEM profile for the rear sill and uprights, no bending or even welding required.

Here is an interim pic to ground everyone on what I have been trying to describe above in the 4th option.

The rear opening above is obviously not complete, but now that we have general directional understanding, I’ll walk back through the build process to completion.

 

[Malleus]

Genius solution.