1964 FJ45 LB “RB1” Project

[miker]

Oh, I did get something new to play with...and now I have a way to build that gas tank out of stainless or aluminum but after about 15 minutes of welding with this I realize I need a lot more practice before I begin any sort of project that will be intended to actually hold the gasoline inside the tank:

 

[miker]

Finished up the rear wall bracing. I decided to add a piece across the rear corner. It's really not needed for strength, I just thought it looked better with it vs. without.

I've also started to weld the roll cage together. I'm seeing now that with the seats mounted, there will be very little room between me and the rear bar. Extending the cab would have been a good thing, but it is what it is and I'm not changing it now.

 

[miker]

A few more.

 

[whitey45]

Very nice Mike, could you duplicate that for my truck!!!

 

[miker]

Very nice Mike

Thanks.

could you duplicate that for my truck!!!

I'm sure we could work something out. PM me if you want to talk.

 

[Awl_TEQ]

I see you've got the TIG figured out - looks like a TIG weld at least

 

[waiting for time]

Looking great, wish my welds looked like yours.

 

[Redmitty]

Include me

I been watching the thread, have come to really appreciate the work you have done. Sent you a pm regarding the cage work.

 

[Gusb]

Oh, I did get something new to play with...and now I have a way to build that gas tank out of stainless or aluminum but after about 15 minutes of welding with this I realize I need a lot more practice before I begin any sort of project that will be intended to actually hold the gasoline inside the tank:

Very cool Mike - is that last weld I see what I think it is - looks very nice?

Can't wait to see what you do with the TIG (and what you think of the 180)

Gus

 

[miker]

Very cool Mike - is that last weld I see what I think it is - looks very nice?

Can't wait to see what you do with the TIG (and what you think of the 180)

Gus

Hey Gus,
Yes, I'm using the TIG for the cage. The pictures are a bit blurry which probably make the welds look better than they do in person. One thing I'm sure about and that is the welds are strong. To me, there seems to be much better penetration than with MIG. I practiced on a bunch of scrape tube so I could figure out settings and learn some technique. Not a lot of settings on this welder so that part is pretty easy. The exact right technique I'm still learning and tweaking.

So far, I like the Diversion. My biggest complaint is the torch cable. I think its too stiff. This might be like other TIG welders but since this is the only one I've ever used, I can't compare. I find that its hard to "feel" the torch when you have such a stiff cable. The position you are in when welding has a lot to do with this and maybe it will get easier with time but for now, I find that I have a bit of a hard time finding the right position to be comfortable and not have the cable pulling or hanging on the torch before I start welding.

To help with this, I may make an arm band or just use some velcro that I can use to strap the cable to my forearm so my arm is supporting the cable weight rather than with my fingers and hand while holding the torch. Welding at a bench is easier since you can lay the cable on the bench or worktop and you can also use the worktop to steady your hand. Welding the tubing on the cage, it seems like you have to "free hand" stuff without a support and its harder to keep a steady hand. Any movement you make with the torch seems to be echoed and amplified in the weld bead.

I'm fond of Miller products so the next step up for a TIG from the Diversion is either a Synchro Wave or Dynasty and these are both a lot more money. I think this is a good compromise between cost and features.

Its definitely worth getting the 180 over the 165 if you will ever be adding the foot pedal to a 165. The 180 comes with it and 165 does not. The cost of adding it to the 165 is the difference in cost between the two welders. The 180 will also operate on 115v or 230v where the 165 is only 220v. The 180 has a digital display where the 165 has a dial with pointer. Not sure if one is better than the other but I kind of like the digital display.

 

[miker]

I see you've got the TIG figured out - looks like a TIG weld at least

Yep, its TIG. Not sure I've got it all figured out but I'm working on it.

 

[Gusb]

Hey Gus,
Yes, I'm using the TIG for the cage. The pictures are a bit blurry which probably make the welds look better than they do in person. One thing I'm sure about and that is the welds are strong...

Did you buy from some place like cyberweld.com or local?

Interesting about the cable - I'm assuming you mean it's much stiffer than a MIG torch cable? Could that torch with controls in the handle be stiffer/bulkier than others (using only the pedal)? I imagine that position/setup are always going to be more critical than MIG - working your way around the cage should be a good test of how double-jointed you are .

With penetration, I would hope the heat is just more controllable in general (with practice of course). MIG does seem to be more "concentrated/localized" - with maybe the TIG spreading the heat out more (similar to O/A gas weld)? I've wondered if that might be part of the reason hammer/dolly is considered easier on TIG (gas too) joints, like a larger area got hotter and softened a bit more?

Anyway - envious congratulations - I'm really jealous you got the TIG before I did. At least I can hopefully (selfishly) learn from your experience going forward.

 

[miker]

Disclaimer: When reading my comments keep in mind that I've TIG welded about a total of 30 minutes in my entire life.

Did you buy from some place like cyberweld.com or local?

Local. I paid about the same price as cyberweld but I did have to pay tax buying local. The shop was very helpful and to me this was worth what I had to pay in tax. Plus, I'm supporting a local business.

Interesting about the cable - I'm assuming you mean it's much stiffer than a MIG torch cable? Could that torch with controls in the handle be stiffer/bulkier than others (using only the pedal)? I imagine that position/setup are always going to be more critical than MIG - working your way around the cage should be a good test of how double-jointed you are .

I'd say its more flexible than a MIG cable. But for me anyway, I need to feel the torch more in my hand with the tig vs mig. When I MIG weld I'm gripping the gun like a grip a screwdriver or a hammer. When I'm TIG welding, I'm holding the torch like a pen or pencil. Different kind of grip and feel.

The Diversion tig handle does not add to the stiffness but it does add to the torch handle bulkiness. You can add different (smaller) torch heads to it easily enough which I have done but the handle remains. I've seen some online articles on how to convert the torch handle and cable with the cable being a more flexible one. I may look more into it. For now, I'm trying to work with this one.

The controls on the torch are a bit hard for me to use without inadvertantly moving the torch or hitting the power on/off button. For me, at this point, its not something that feels natural and I have to hunt for the torch controls because of the way I hold it. To make the controls easy to reach with your finger you have to hold the torch pretty far down on the handle. Too far for my liking at this time. So, I've found the foot pedal to be easier.

However, some places you want to weld don't work well with a foot pedal so having the torch controls are a nice option since the Diversion does not do "lift arc" TIG.

And yes, I definitely have to make sure I'm following and watching the weld closely and wearing my reading glasses otherwise I can't see the weld puddle well enough.

With MIG, I've gotten use to welding in places where I can't always see because something is blocking my view or I can't crook my head around a crossmember or bracket. Just point and shoot. I don't think I'll ever be able to do that with a tig.

TIG seems to lend itself better if the welder (the person doing the welding) is in the perfect and most confortable position.

With penetration, I would hope the heat is just more controllable in general (with practice of course). MIG does seem to be more "concentrated/localized" - with maybe the TIG spreading the heat out more (similar to O/A gas weld)? I've wondered if that might be part of the reason hammer/dolly is considered easier on TIG (gas too) joints, like a larger area got hotter and softened a bit more?

With TIG you get a finer control of the heat and you can adjust it while you are welding and you also get to decide how much filler to add to the weld joint so I've found (in my 30 minutes of TIG experience for what that's worth ) that I can better control the penetration of the weld and the weld bead can be much flatter and not build up quickly like short arc MIG.

The thin sheet I have TIG welded did seem to be more workable with hammer & dolly. I think partially beause I was not using much filler and therefore the weld contained mostly the same metal composition as the surrounding piece.

You could be right on the heat zone. It does tend to put more heat in the work piece like gas welding and not so localized like mig. I really haven't done enough yet with thin sheet to really tell how much different it will be from mig other than to say there should be little to no grinding or cleanup after the piece is TIGed. This is not so when I MIG weld body panels.

Anyway - envious congratulations - I'm really jealous you got the TIG before I did. At least I can hopefully (selfishly) learn from your experience going forward.

Haha, yeah. Watch and learn from my :whoops: mistakes.

If you are ever inclined, you are welcome to come up and melt some metal and try it out.

 

[miker]

Have the seats mounts in place and drivers seat temperarily mounted. Also have the top spreaders in place. Started to work on the tunnel cover.

 

[clamor]

Does that tunnel cover come out alright, or are you going to have to make it 2 piece?
-Chaz

 

[miker]

Does that tunnel cover come out alright, or are you going to have to make it 2 piece?
-Chaz

Once I get the sides on it, it will not come out with the cage in place. So, I'm thinking I will make it two pieces, front and back, or I will make it so that just the top plate of the tunnel is removable. If you know what a 79+ FJ40 cover looks like, this is what I'm thinking for a removeable top plate. I really just need to be able to access the shifter brackets and linkages so I don't think I'll need to remove the whole tunnel cover once its in place.

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Next time you've got the camera out snap a picture of the drivers seat from the passenger doorway please. I'd like to see how your seat to cab to cage clearances work out. I'm trying to maximize leg room and keep the cage away from my head and not block the corner window and leave room for triangulation and and and and ....

 

[miker]

Next time you've got the camera out snap a picture of the drivers seat from the passenger doorway please. I'd like to see how your seat to cab to cage clearances work out. I'm trying to maximize leg room and keep the cage away from my head and not block the corner window and leave room for triangulation and and and and ....

Will do.

I'm not sure all those things you mention can be done in a stock sized 45 cab.

In mine, I'm still planning to add a rear horz bar behind the seats. There is one spot where I can tuck it back, just below the rear window. I plan to use this as the seat belt mount point. I need to buy a 1.5" die before I can bend up the piece.

I also want to add some sort of triangular support as well but I'm wondering where without impacting head room or leg room. I will probably have to make some sort of compromise.

When I look at what I've doen so far on mine, I think if I were to do it again, I would not put a hoop at the rear of the cab and I would instead make more of a 3/4 halo and then drop the rear supports off of that to the floor. I think this would have given me about 1.5" to 2" more room to the rear resulting in more leg room with the same distance I have now from my head to bar. It would not have provided any significant amount of height however.

Your idea of not covering the corner glass would have been good and I thought of this too but I could not figure out how to do it in a way that I thought would look decent and be functional and strong. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Will do.

I'm not sure all those things you mention can be done in a stock sized 45 cab.

Not much room in there, that's for sure. Compromises will need to be made.

 

[miker]

pictures from passenger side