The oil pressure guage on my car indicates same at startup whether it has 0w20 or 5w40. 10K -15k OCI for me.
15w40 in 3urfe
- Thread starter weaponoffreedom
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Tailoring should be driven by a difference in use case or regional temperature, rather than just pursuing "better". The manufacture will recommend the optimal oil weight for the typical use case. Their goals are generally aligned with the end user. Meaning efficiency matters, power matters, and surely reliability matters as Toyota's reputation is built on that foundation.
We're not going to magically find an oil that suddenly finds meaningful more durability for our engine. An engine that already has a proven track record. I mean when's the last time someone had more than a point of data without real controls, to back their choice other than feels? When mother Toyota objectively tests and validates in spades?
Yes, I run a tailored viscosity to your point. 0W-30. Not because I feel it is better for nominal use, rather it's driven by an atypical use case. I tow heavier than max GCWR 15k+ lbs, on 37s. In some of the hottest climates in and around Death Valley in summer. Both of which trend to tailoring up viscosity on the hot end. Incrementally. Yet I do visit cold regions for ski trips, so that 0W cold pumpability is just as important.
Sure, 5W-30 is going to be just fine as a middle of the road oil.
Beyond that, I suspect there are going to be real trades, including possibly inviting more cold start wear, loss of power, and efficiency. I'm all for modifying. Recognizing it's often hard to do better, and easy to do worse.
Hope the oil pressure gauge is more precise than the water temp gauge.
There's a ton that goes into this as you're likely aware. A thicker oil will (to a point) drop your HP, heat transfer, etc. Thiccer (sic) isn't always better. Is 0W20 rec courtesy of CAFE? Highly likely IMO.
Personally, I'd be hesitant to use such a heavy oil unless you're in the desert. But that's me. If you do, report what you experience and send off a UOA and update.
Personally, I'd be hesitant to use such a heavy oil unless you're in the desert. But that's me. If you do, report what you experience and send off a UOA and update.
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- #26
i think supertech is the routoe I will be going in the futurre for that and other in the fleet
yeah for sure w20 is for CAFE.
It is as reliable as the HG in these vehicles
Talk about liquid gold!
My KTM RC8R specified 10w-50.
5w-30 synthetic in my 80 and 200. Kirkland w/5k mile OCI, cheap enough to not worry about. -3F this week, started up like normal. (as it should)
I ran a viscosity curve chart for you to consider found at Oil Viscosity Chart | Lubrication Tools | Interlub - https://interlub.com/en/lubrication-tools/oil-viscosity-graph/
I put in the cSt as requested using common solid oil Brands (HPL, Amsoil) and weights in use and the Supertech 15W40 you mentioned. The 15W40 is a thick oil for sure, especially around freezing temps that we are going to get for the next few months. Chart pic attached. Temp in Celsius
I put in the cSt as requested using common solid oil Brands (HPL, Amsoil) and weights in use and the Supertech 15W40 you mentioned. The 15W40 is a thick oil for sure, especially around freezing temps that we are going to get for the next few months. Chart pic attached. Temp in Celsius
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What I do not get from an engine wear perspective is why Toyota programmed the ECU to rev high at a cold start (initial at ~1500 and settlng at 1200 rpm, then a minutes later drops below 1000) other than cat heat up and again… emissions I would think.
My 535d inline 6 starts and revs immediately at 600 to 700, like many V8’s used to do as well. I wonder with the ECU tuning now possible (would have to search for the thread), this feature can be programmed out or maybe with a lower initial rev target.
My 535d inline 6 starts and revs immediately at 600 to 700, like many V8’s used to do as well. I wonder with the ECU tuning now possible (would have to search for the thread), this feature can be programmed out or maybe with a lower initial rev target.
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Warming up the catalytic converters is the ONLY reason I think that would be justified. But like I've said - I'm sInPuL
Right, I think so. I am personally not interested in the cats functioning a couple percent better if that puts more wear on the engine. I believe that whole air system upon start up is also part of it which is a know failure point, sigh…
As an Engineer this high initial revving just hurts in the ears and brain (thinking poor bearings and piston rings…)
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bloc
SILVER Star
What realistic difference in engine life are we talking about here? It’s not like 3URs are failing early from oiling issues.
Its most certainly in there somewhere but I haven’t seen it in VFTuner. Maybe people with pre-2016 trucks could adjust it in HPTuners. I know HPTuners had those values available for adjustment for my F150.
Agreed and maybe the way Toyota has tuned this enhances proper combustion and heat up which has the potential to reduce fuel wash down and wear from the same. Just do not like the immediate 1500 rpms, then again I love the total 200 package. I just hope it is not another compromise of trying to reduce emissions and moving the long term problem to the vehicle owner. I wish we had a Toyota 3UR-FE engineer who honestly would explain how we got here and why. I know that is wishful thinking.
By the way Google AI has some food for thought around engine wear. As you say, this may still be irrelevant considering how well the 3UR-FE holds up.
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- #36
Many people have said that most wear is at startup, and can see how that could be the case, but i have yet to see one conclusive representation of this is action. Especially in a daily driver.
The engine is coated with film, and whatever additives are in the oil, such as ZDDP. As long as that film exists, there is no harm. We are not talking about 10-15 seconds before the area is bathed in oil anyway.
For now that is the consensus, but I just have seen nothing that is conclusive.
And wear, where? Typical systems pump oil to the top and let the oil trickle down back to the pan. So it would stand to reason that some point have not been touched by oil long after the oil pressure gauge gets it signal.
And yet using regular dino 15w40, engines get millions of miles on them.
And yes, as I understand it, all other things being equal, the thicker the viscosity, the less wear.
I wonder if it would be worth it, to incorporate a temporary electric oil pump that would turn on prior to actual start. Interesting idea. As a retro fit.
Commonly done in race engines (COTS item is an ACCUSUMP or generic oil accumulator).
Thicker oil is not better at the normal north american operating temp environments (notably with relatively tight aluminum cam bridges). If you lift the PRV off the seat you lose the flow and can starve/wipe bearings despite "having pressure at the pump". Unfortunately you are not going to get a digestible distillation that will satisfy you on a forum. If you need/want to go deep it will probably take getting a BS in mech eng with a machine design focus then an postgrad in tribology to understand the minutia of bearing clearance and viscosity plus additives (or troll the jillion google results relating to oil p. and plain bearing hydrodynamics - but a good portion of those are technically weak or wrong). 15-40 wont kill anything as long as you live in the desert SW heat, in NC there is no need for it when 0-20, 0-30 and 5-30 are readilly available off the shelf. Live in the empty quarter of saudi and the 15-40 is potentially a solid option.
i am not am engineer and do not play one on tv
that said - 200 isnt the only thing that “revs up”
on start up. We have many other toyota/lexus products in our fleet and all do the same thing
now given we have 400-500k mile on many of these examples in our personal fleet I think people are right
toyota engineers are dummies
had they not done these engine rev up on start up - i bet we could get millions of miles instead of reliable 500k miles
that said - 200 isnt the only thing that “revs up”
on start up. We have many other toyota/lexus products in our fleet and all do the same thing
now given we have 400-500k mile on many of these examples in our personal fleet I think people are right
toyota engineers are dummies
had they not done these engine rev up on start up - i bet we could get millions of miles instead of reliable 500k miles
You must be that 5th dentist that never agrees
i rather be referred to as a dissenting justice rather than a dentist
where we come from dentist/chiropractor/anesthesiologist are seen as sub par humans
