105 as collector's item

[VonclicasLX]

Hi guys,

I am the owner of a few land cruisers, most of them, beaters, full of scratches, a bit of rust here and there, used for fun, lots of fun.

Now I would like to educate myself as a classics collector, and although I don't love the specs, i am very curious about the 105 due be being very unique and rare.

I already have an lx470 that I love and use for overland and Rockcrawling, the 105 could be used for very light overlanding, road trips with the family, and also to keep it as collector's item.

Does anyone know why the 105 in Europe are so crazy expensive, and elsewhere 10k to 20k cheaper?

Are the specs different?

Does anyone know the specs from middle east, compared with the south American and the European ones?

Maybe there's also differences between European ones? Some with lockers, others without any lockers?

Were some triple locked from factory or only rear locked?

Were they all coming with the less heavy duty gearbox from the Hilux ? What gearbox can be replaced with?
I also read the axles were weaker than the 80 series.

Thanks in advance.

 

[MongooseGA]

I couldn't say what the reason is for higher euro model prices, or the differences between various market models.

But short of being a museum piece, I don't know if I see a 105 becoming collectible any time soon. They're about to be very available for import next year, and I imagine there will be some premiums paid in the early days of these coming over. But after a few years, idk. It's not like an R34 that we never got here. We did get the 100, and I don't think the 105 is enough of a departure from either the 80 or 100 to really command big bucks. The 105 was specifically the utility version of the 100 model (if you consider it a 100 model), and therefore I would expect a lot are not cream puffs.

But, I could be wrong.

 

[Trapper50cal]

It's all about that solid axle up front instead of IFS. Makes it an 80 with a V8 or diesel (minus the full float rear axle) so while our NA Market IFS rigs tap out at about 3 inches of lift (with no down travel on the front) the 105 can handle 4 or 5 inches of lift. IDK if they released triple-locked 105's anywhere.

 

[hoser]

Not an expert on 105's but IMO, the LHD HZJ105 would be the some expensive/desirable model and hence Europe. But it seems, they sold way more 100's than 105's. AFAIK, there was no European market 105 model but they were importable and so any European who purchased one really wanted it and probably paid a premium compared to Euro market 100's.

They did come in different trim levels, not just the poverty pack model that gets the most interest on mud. Not sure which trim level would command the highest value on a collectors car.

LHD 105's from the Middle East are mostly FZJ105 and generally more beat up. But they sold a lot of them there and so there are some nice ones if you look hard. LHD 105's from South America are generally beat up and in bad shape under that fresh coat of paint.

They didn't sell 105's in Japan. I think tripled locked 105 anywhere was a rare option. Most came with 2-pinion front diffs even.

 

[GTV]

105’s are cool but their engines are kinda weak. If solid axles were important to me I’d get a turbo diesel 80 over a 105.

 

[MongooseGA]

Most came with 2-pinion front diffs even.

Good information. I found this part pretty interesting. Would there be a significant difference in strength between the 2-pinion on an early 100 vs 2 pinion on a 105? Were 80s the same way here?

 

[Exiled]

In my opinion, "collector" Land Cruisers go into roughly three buckets:

1. Extremely rare, or very old, or produced in very small numbers (see also very old), *unmolested* examples. Examples: 1963-67 US-spec 45 wagons or pickups, US-spec 1983 FJ40s, FJ25s, some examples of the 70 series (especially in the US where they were never really available).

2. Very low-mileage, highly preserved *original* examples, even of Land Cruisers produced in larger numbers. Examples: that white FZJ80 that recently sold for $170K on Bring-a-Trailer (insanely low mileage and SUPER preserved); US-spec late-model FJ40s (1981-1983) that are unmolested are often in this category, as are exceptional FJ55s and FJ60s.

3. Very high-end restorations with extreme documentation (could be done by individuals or reputable shops), utilizing factory parts when possible, and adhering as closely as possible to the original. Examples: there's probably 200+ Land Cruisers in the US that meet this criteria, without naming specific shops or individuals. "Restoration" is the most abused word in the automotive language; a repaint, reupholstery in a non-stock color and light mechanical refurbishment (or just paint) do not constitute a "restoration" by the strict definition of the word and thus don't really reach "collector" levels.

A Euro-spec 105 could meet #2 criteria, but because the 100 was produced in relatively large numbers around the world, you'd need to find a very low-mileage and truly unmolested example to really meet collector criteria. They don't meet #1 criteria, and there's likely not many that have been restored enough to meet #3 criteria.

 

[hoser]

Good information. I found this part pretty interesting. Would there be a significant difference in strength between the 2-pinion on an early 100 vs 2 pinion on a 105? Were 80s the same way here?

I see both 2 a 4 pinion available.... even in 2003 and even on the GX (higher trim than Standard)... including manual transmission. I see no pattern. I take back the part about "most" 105's having 2-pinion fronts. It was often mentioned on the now defunct Australia LC forum though.

As for 80's... I "think" all FJ80's in the US had 2-pinion and FZJ80's had 4-pinion in the front.

 

[ClassyJalopy]

I don't think there were any 105 with 2UZ-FE v8 or even 1HD-FTE (4.2 turbo diesel). Which means they will all struggle to maintain highway speeds. I am with @Exiled find a LC which falls in one of the 3 categories he laid out.

 

[willyroo]

I don't think there were any 105 with (snipped) 1HD-FTE (4.2 turbo diesel).

The 105s (right hand drive) hold their value down under as well. There are quite a few with a heart transplant, for example:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2004-toyota-landcruiser-gxl-manual-4x4/SSE-AD-17020535/

However there are some "unmolested" FZJs (4.5 litre inline 6 petrol) and HZJs (smoke and noise generators)

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/?q=(C.Make.Toyota._.(C.Model.Landcruiser._.(Or.Series.FZJ105R._.Series.HZJ105R.)))

 

[VonclicasLX]

I couldn't say what the reason is for higher euro model prices, or the differences between various market models.

But short of being a museum piece, I don't know if I see a 105 becoming collectible any time soon. They're about to be very available for import next year, and I imagine there will be some premiums paid in the early days of these coming over. But after a few years, idk. It's not like an R34 that we never got here. We did get the 100, and I don't think the 105 is enough of a departure from either the 80 or 100 to really command big bucks. The 105 was specifically the utility version of the 100 model (if you consider it a 100 model), and therefore I would expect a lot are not cream puffs.

But, I could be wrong.

I would guess that they should become more expensive as more Americans start buying them overseas, but yeah, not like the r34.

105 is already more expensive than the 100/lexus, it should go up a bit more, specially if they are already over 15-20k anywhere in the world.
Being not as available as others, like.. 1 to 100? , it should put even more pressure on prices.

But yeah, still a big unkown.

Since I don't love the style of the 80, I would rather have the 105 as an a somewhst modern / old school toyota.

 

[Tareq]

Used 2002 TOYOTA LAND CRUISER GXL for Sale BU103481 - BE FORWARD

I was browsing JDMs for sale (for fun) and saw this, looks like 105 but looks like it has the 4500cc engine, lockers and manual

 

[4runnerguy]

It's all about that solid axle up front instead of IFS. Makes it an 80 with a V8 or diesel (minus the full float rear axle) so while our NA Market IFS rigs tap out at about 3 inches of lift (with no down travel on the front) the 105 can handle 4 or 5 inches of lift. IDK if they released triple-locked 105's anywhere.

FWIW, mine is a South African market HZJ105 and it is triple-locked.

 

[VonclicasLX]

Today I found a very rare hzj105 with rear locker. Quite rare in the middle east.

I thought one of them had lockers

 

[VonclicasLX]

Used 2002 TOYOTA LAND CRUISER GXL for Sale BU103481 - BE FORWARD

I was browsing JDMs for sale (for fun) and saw this, looks like 105 but looks like it has the 4500cc engine, lockers and manual

35k usd for a gasoline rhd 105...

 

[Tareq]

35k usd for a gasoline rhd 105...

Not too tempting, i agree, I can get a clean 2uz + 10k in upgrades for that price ,,, but apparently there is a LHD diesel for 65k CAD located in Toronto

2006 Toyota Landcruiser

Toronto Autohaus Ltd 2006 Toyota Land Cruiser 105 GX(R2).1HZ Diesel Engine , Triple Lockers solid front axle . Brand new interior , sunroof , 9 seater . All original , no modifications . Recent fuel...

www.facebook.com

 

[VonclicasLX]

Yeah, that 105 have been for sale for a year.
This guy also sent an 105 to usa a few months ago, asking 45k usd.
Also selling a hdj100.

You have no clue about the value of a truck if they never sell.

We also have lwb 70 series for sale in Toronto for more than an year at a dealership.

 

[ElpirateDelCaribe]

Not an expert on 105's but IMO, the LHD HZJ105 would be the some expensive/desirable model and hence Europe. But it seems, they sold way more 100's than 105's. AFAIK, there was no European market 105 model but they were importable and so any European who purchased one really wanted it and probably paid a premium compared to Euro market 100's.

They did come in different trim levels, not just the poverty pack model that gets the most interest on mud. Not sure which trim level would command the highest value on a collectors car.

LHD 105's from the Middle East are mostly FZJ105 and generally more beat up. But they sold a lot of them there and so there are some nice ones if you look hard. LHD 105's from South America are generally beat up and in bad shape under that fresh coat of paint.

They didn't sell 105's in Japan. I think tripled locked 105 anywhere was a rare option. Most came with 2-pinion front diffs even.

My HZJ105L was purchased right here in Honduras. Not too sure how many others are floating around here in the Caribbean.