100 frame vs everything else

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04UZJ100

04UZJ100

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As most of us know, Toyota's engineering peaked with the 100 series as far as being overbuilt, over-engineered, and over-tested is concerned.

How does the 100 frame stack up to today's manufacturers that offer "truck" frames.

Every GM, Ford, or Chrysler product that I've driven in has demonstrated visible flexing over the most insignificant of bumps including "heavy duty" and "super duty" lines. Furthermore, their drive train, even new does not feel nearly as robust or refined as my 100 with 140k or 4R with 100k.

Examining the 100 and other trucks' drive train/frame reveals thinner/smaller components throughout the ENTIRE design. From the frame rail thickness to the size of the rear end and LCA's.

Basically what I'm asking is if the 100 is the most underestimated, over-engineered civilian vehicle on the planet, aside from the 200.

AFAIC, the 200 frame is stronger than the 100 as noted by Toyota, but the aluminum block power plant still has to stand the test of time that the iron block 2UZ has.
 
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I love the 100, and the 80 even more than that, but I can say with a certainty that my F150 is the most reliable, smooth and "solid feeling" truck I've owned (and I have owned a lot of Toyotas). It has 180K on the clock right now and drives like it has 50.

That said, the 100 is a really nice vehicle. Great build quality but there are too many little issues IMO to deem it the most overbuilt vehicle ever. An insanely rigid frame is little solace in the middle of nowhere when your diff blows up, your AHC stops working and all of your electronics go fritso.

And with ALL of that said, I can also say that I want to get another 100...so what does that tell you? :)
 
etarasoff said:
... in the middle of nowhere when your diff blows up, your AHC stops working and all of your electronics go fritso.
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We have heard of diffs and AHC failing (although, I haven't heard of "all the electronics going fritso" ? :hhmm:), but the failure rate on these items appears to be relatively low.

As another bit of data, I think every Lexus GX470 out there has AHC on it, and I have yet to hear anyone talking about that system failing on those rigs, and there are a LOT of GX's out there.

Anyone with a TLC doing serious wheeling pulls the AHC out knowing full well it wasn't designed for the "expedition" rig in mind.

Lots and lots of 100's out there with over 200k miles and basically no issues other than common wear items.

:cheers:
 
super90 said:
We have heard of diffs and AHC failing (although, I haven't heard of "all the electronics going fritso" ? :hhmm:), but the failure rate on these items appears to be relatively low.

As another bit of data, I think every Lexus GX470 out there has AHC on it, and I have yet to hear anyone talking about that system failing on those rigs, and there are a LOT of GX's out there.

Anyone with a TLC doing serious wheeling pulls the AHC out knowing full well it wasn't designed for the "expedition" rig in mind.

Lots and lots of 100's out there with over 200k miles and basically no issues other than common wear items.

:cheers:
Click to expand...

The GX only has "rear" AHC not front/rear like the 100 series. Also, I went to look at one with my Father-in-law early this year as he was considering buying. It had already had the rear AHC system replaced. It had 80k miles on it, and it was a 2004 model. So, now you've heard of 1 :D
 
super90 said:
As another bit of data, I think every Lexus GX470 out there has AHC on it, and I have yet to hear anyone talking about that system failing on those rigs, and there are a LOT of GX's out there.
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just one search for gx470 ahc yielded more threads on failed sensors and stiff rides than i cared to count. also - no gx expert here but a quick look at parts tells me it's not the same hydraulic system that the 100 has, rather looks like an air suspension. so the name ahc and maybe the sensors might be the only thing the lx and gx ahc systems have in common.

just observations from a brief 2 minute search fwiw...

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD
 
I stand corrected.

So there are GX AHC failures. I will say, when I search Mud in the 120 Series forum, there are only three or four threads on AHC. Searching Google, there are a few threads, but most I saw pointed back to LX AHC failure. When I look for production numbers, there were over 170,000 first generation GX470's sold in the U.S. from 2002-2009. I still am under the impression the AHC failure rate is relatively low on GX's. Lots and lots of soccer moms driving GX's with no issues.

Sorry, I'm off topic, but this AHC issue reminds me a bit of the 80-series head gasket scare. If you don't abuse the engine in an FZJ, the head gasket lasts a long, long time. I get the feeling the AHC is the same way. Knock on wood, mine has over 100k miles on it, no issues whatsoever.

As for electronics, Mr. T has extremely low failure rates, far lower than the BMW's, Mercedes, and VW's I have had.

Mini-rant over.....
 
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etarasoff said:
I love the 100, and the 80 even more than that, but I can say with a certainty that my F150 is the most reliable, smooth and "solid feeling" truck I've owned (and I have owned a lot of Toyotas). It has 180K on the clock right now and drives like it has 50.

That said, the 100 is a really nice vehicle. Great build quality but there are too many little issues IMO to deem it the most overbuilt vehicle ever. An insanely rigid frame is little solace in the middle of nowhere when your diff blows up, your AHC stops working and all of your electronics go fritso.

And with ALL of that said, I can also say that I want to get another 100...so what does that tell you? :)
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you regarding build. This is downright scary.

 
AHC wasnt built for hard trail use and diff failures are almost non existent with the 4 pinion front diff.....also an ARB is a quick fix for that anyways.

As far as I know these rigs experience very few serious electrical problems considering the number of them in the world and how they are used. Also most electrical problems seem to be related to senors or things that get worn or broken.

Denso builds the electronics in these rigs, I have hear that when Mercedes decided they were tired of all the electrical problems they were having, they called up Denso to improve their electrical systems........I havent really been able to confirm this though.

Sooo getting back ON topic,

Generally I think the frame of the 100 (or any series LC, and even the 4runner/Prado/HiLux.....not the Tacoma) are better designed and built than domestic counterparts. This is especially true at the time they were orignailly designed, i.e. mid-to-late 1990's for the 100. Toyota seems to have figured out long ago that a rigid durable frame is key to longevity and off-road prowess.

I feel like the domestics have only recently started to come close to building frames that are as well built as a fully boxed Toyota frame. I say close only because most are still fairly new and also because, for example, the current F150/Raptor frame bends due to a design flaw.

I have been very disappointed with the Tundra and Tacoma frame compared to domestic competitors, especially since Toyota builds fully boxed frames for so many other vehicles (LC, HiLux, Prado).

I only half agree about the driveline thing, the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks have very robust drivelines IMHO. However, I agree that they are not nearly as refined.....and probably not as reliable.



For its class, size, intended use, GVWR, and GCVWR, I would say that a LC is one of the most overbuilt vehicles of its time.

This 80 got pinned between two semis http://www.gotcruiser.com/80srock/80srock.htm#80


Picture050a.jpg
 
I agree, pman. The Tundra frames are absolute jokes. It will be interesting to see what the third generation offers as it's due for an update soon. Yes, Denso makes EVERYTHING from the ignition system to the AC fan. The use of a single manufacturer for something like this must improve reliability, from a manufacturing standpoint before they're even put in the car.
 
what is all over the 80?
 
The water crossing with that 80 is NUTS!

So guys, don't get me wrong. I'm not bashing the 100. In fact, I wouldn't be spending as much time on here as I do unless I truly loved Cruisers. I guess my only point is that the US-spec Landcruisers, while insanely rugged at the core, have too much froo-froo to be considered 'overbuilt' imho. When I've visited 3rd world countries, I've seen a lot of LCs without the fancy leather, power windows or color-matched molding on the outside.

Re:AHC - get over it. Tons of people have problems with it, including this person. As someone else said, nobody who is serious about off-roading would head out with it. And that's my point, I guess. That's an example of one component that's not 'overbuilt.'

Re: Frames and drivetrain. Yeah, Cruisers have it on everything else. No question.
 
etarasoff said:
Re:AHC - get over it. Tons of people have problems with it, including this person.
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Haha, one of the worst quotes on Mud in a while. Sounds like, you need to get over it? Just saying ... 170k GX's proves it's not a tons of people having problems. Not to mention ALL the LC's, LX's, Sequoia's, etc. etc. etc. We're talking several hundred thousand vehicles.

Sure, it doesn't take the abuse for hardcore 4x4 stuff but as far as car companies offering advanced and complicated adjustable suspension? AHC is the cat's pajamas. As an enthusiast's forum, we all agree the the AHC should be considered one of the first things to be removed for hardcore, extreme, or even just serious 4x4'ing.

But as a guy that takes his clients out weekly in his LX and also gets on a few 4x4ing trips, AHC is a great compromise.
 
Can we get a restatement of the main arguments of this thread before Cory has a coronary and sends this thread to Chat oblivion?

Are we talking about the frame assy by itself or are we talking about the entire 100 series platform, worldwide?

There is a huge difference between these conversations.

Thanks.
-onur

[yes, I have been to the factory in Japan :) ]
 
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